Graybeard Outdoors (GBO Reloaded)
H&R Talk => H&R Centerfire Rifles => Topic started by: frankkj on December 26, 2007, 11:11:49 AM
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I received word a short time ago that Service, the group that owns Chrysler, Remington, etc., just purchased Marlin and NEF. Anyone else aware of this?
Frank
I got the name of the company wrong. It is Cerberus, not Service. Kind of sounds alike though.
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It just showed up on Leverguns with a link to a CNN Business news.I dont know what to think ?????? HELP Quick LOL Doug
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It's true! ::) :-\ ;D :'(
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/industries/finance/article/remington-acquire-marlin-firearms_418888_9.html
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/manufacturing/2007-12-27-remington-marlin-firearms_N.htm
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Maybe an infusion of cash and fresh ideas will help. At least I hope it doesn't hurt. I've just got to believe that the group made an investment in the future of both companies.
Frank
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I don't know what to think about this. :'(
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This is GREAT! now NEF's customer service will be just as good as Remington's is. :-[ Larry
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I am worried about NEF going to some foreign country now or just getting put out of business.
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Sure wish I had the funds to buy the 45-70 Buffalo Classic I want, and the 30-30, and the 22" 45-70, and the 25-06 ultra, and the ........... You get the picture.
Frank
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Here's the official link to the release:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/industries/finance/article/remington-acquire-marlin-firearms_418888_9.html
Best wishes to all!
Diana
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Diana, that link looks familiar!! :D
thx,
Tim
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great they have my gun i wonder if i will get it back? wonder if they will follow thru with what i was told hmmmmmm
great concern here!!!!!!!!!!! :o >:(
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To bad NEF don't own NEF and Remington don't own Remington! Old times are gone.
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Not a good thing when a big company gobbles up smaller company!
First thing they will do is streamline in order to cut cost.
I've seen it happen with a company I used to work for, and it's always about the bottom line, and contrary to what they would have you believe, the customer will not have the last say, if any at all, most of the time.
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great they have my gun i wonder if i will get it back? wonder if they will follow thru with what i was told hmmmmmm
great concern here!!!!!!!!!!! :o >:(
No need for the Chicken Little thinking, you'll get it back, I wouldn't worry about that, give CS a call and find out when it's due back, that should make ya feel better. I suspect they'll be closed again next Monday as they were this week.
Tim
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Well, this can be good or bad. Generally speaking Cerberus is pretty hands off and an infusion of cash could be a good thing. However, it is Cerberus through Remington that is buying Marlin/NEF. Remington is the one that imports some so-so single shots from Turkey. I am afraid they will try to foist these off as NEF/H&R firearms. Remington is also the company that sells the 710/770 bolt actions (about the worst bolt action rifles I've ever handled). Another good side thing we might look at is how they handled product lines under Bushmaster. They just had Bushmaster make an AR15 for Remington. Maybe Remington wants a good single action rifle line for themselves.
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Now the handis will look like the remington single shots :'(
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Maybe they will scrap the current single shots and have NEF make them a single shot rifle and shot guns and have LCsmtih covering the O&U and SxS. I bet they will do that. And have marlin take over the rim fires and keep all the rest the same. Just my 2cents
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H&R already has the Chinese 870 clone, Remington has Russion Spartans, so no change for Remington there.
Tim
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Do you think they would scrap the Chinese 870?
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Only time will will tell. I would hope they get rid of them Spartans ( THAT IS HARD TO MOUNT A SCOPE RIGHT ) and replace them with a H&R NEF product. Dale
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I've got an old American made Winchester model 94 that's gone way up in value.
Now all I have to do is make sure I don't sell my American made Handi rifle!
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My guess which is just as irrelevant as anyone elses quess is that nothing much will change. The handi platform will keep on being a do it yourself type of proposition, for the amateur jack of all guns type of hombre.
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The same company bought DPMS last week.
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The same company bought DPMS last week.
This is making Graybeards point seem more and more true. (marlin forum same topic rem buying marlin) Added below.
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This the second such purchase in recent years that absolutely blows my mind.
Remington has been on the verge of bankruptcy for years and up for sale themselves many times. Recently they were purchased by Cerberus an investment conglomerate and now just barely over being purchased are buying yet another company.
S&W did the same buying out TC just a short while ago after themselves being bought only a short while prior under pretty dire circumstances.
In some ways these deals make me happy and in some make me very leery. Clearly they seem now to have more operating capaital than when the companies were independent and standing on their own but having so few owners of so many firearms manufacturers kinda bothers me as well. All it would take is some super rich person who hates guns to buy up one or more of these new multi-name companies to almost end firearms production in the US. That worries me as there are plenty of folks out there with enough money and enough hatred of guns.
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GB makes a very good point!!!!!!!! I have never thought of that. Dale
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Being that it is an investment company I don't think they will change anything as long as H&R is making money.
Just because they are owned by the same investors doesn't mean they will have anything in common.
It is a shame these days that no company owns itself or makes it's own product.
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Cerberus owns Chrysler Corp. as well. Mitt Romney turned Cerberus around before he got the Utah Olympics on track.
Now he wants to be POTUS.
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Another link to the release. I haven't read the Fox release yet, so this is probably a clone of that. Must be Remington didn't like H&R selling a clone of their 870 in the US. This is the sort of thing Companies do to set themselves up for bankruptcy, whether planned or not.
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/NYW02426122007-1.htm
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I've got an old American made Winchester model 94 that's gone way up in value.
Now all I have to do is make sure I don't sell my American made Handi rifle!
Chuckle...... :D.........I have a couple old extremely well/over built Winchesters also that shot up in value.
I highly doubt we will ever see anything close to that with Handis :D
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My 2 cents..........the glass is half full rather than empty. Key management "do'ers" will stay. Dead weight management will be gone. Money will be available to invest that may not have been there. The company will still be run as a seperate division, simular to on its own but with the finacial backing needed to invest,upgrade,improve & create.
If anything the overseas Remington, outsourced break action single shots will now be manufactured in house at the NEF plant. Likely a upgraded handi rifle with the Remington name.
Personally, the one thing I hope they do with the Handis is finish milling the stock to proper proportions regardless pallet wood, laminate,etc. Its like they are cut with a chain saw now,,,,,,,,but never finished the ruff cut out to proper size.
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I just hope this does not mess with the plans for the new 7mag coming out. I have been excited about this ever since I read about it here. I will be getting one as soon as they hit the market if they still make one.
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Cerberus = 3 headed dog that guarded the gates of Hades. Mythologically speaking of course. Go down and read the Notable acquisitions, and add Marlin/H&R/NEF to the list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerberus_Capital_Management
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An investment company buys a company for............................................well......................an investment. It will try to make money from this. It clearly thinks that either it can run the company more efficiently or it can sell off the parts for more than it paid. One thing for sure, you can bet your paycheck on it, things will be different at NEF from now on. Larry
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For now, I choose to be an optomist. We have long wondered if N&R/NEF would ever get it together and start making improvements on the fit and finish of their firearms. Maybe this will come to pass. Stocks, as was mentioned before, and maybe LOOSE the need to send in your action to have a barrel FITTED. The changes ain't gonna please everyone, but SOME CHANGE can be a good thing. One thing for sure and certain....THINGS WILL CHANGE! Only time will tell if the changes for good will out weigh the bad ones. So, for now, I will be optomistic.
cookiemann
We, the members of this forum, now have an obligation to preserve the knowlege base that we have built about these firearms. Worst case scenario, we will become the authority on these firearms.
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"Do you think they would scrap the Chinese 870?"
I sure hope so, along with the other foreign made junk currently being imported by Remington.
I love Remington, NEF, Marlin, and Bushmaster firearms. They are the best of their niche.
It's all good!
Maybe someone will buy Ruger and their centerfire longgun accuracy will improve to an acceptable level.
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I can only ever infer corporate motives - so it's best that I don't waste my time going there.
What I do know is that they now own the rights to a fine, economical, single-shot frame, marketed nationally by Wal-Mart...
...and they own the patents to a fine, specialized lever-gun (along with the psychological association of specialized calibers for these guns).
Don't know how YOU'RE fixed, but I wouldn't have minded if some of THESE stocks/bonds had shown up in MY Christmas stocking this year?!
doc
(p.s. perhaps they'll be giving away Remingtons as an introductory incentive to buy a Handi?! ...I'm sorry, that's not kind...I apologize)
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Maybe someone will buy Ruger and their centerfire longgun accuracy will improve to an acceptable level.
NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! They are already improving. They don't need help.
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This is probably bad for the Marlin bolt action rifle.
???
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As much as I like Marlins, the Marlin bolt gun made little sense.
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Here's some news specific to H&R...
http://wbjournal.com/j/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3055&Itemid=129
Gardner Firearm Manufacturer Sold
Written by Christina Davis
Thursday, 27 December 2007
The parent company of a gun manufacturer in Gardner is expected to be bought by North Carolina-based Remington Arms Co. Inc.
Remington has entered into a definitive agreement to buy Marlin Firearms Co. Inc. of North Haven, Conn., for an undisclosed sum. Marlin, a family-owned business, owns H&R 1871 Inc. in Gardner, which employs about 230 people.
H&R (Harrington and Richardson) was founded in the 1871, and at one time had a plant in Worcester. According to past news reports, the company was bought by James O. Garrison in 1991, who then sold the company to Marlin in 2000 citing mounting legal bills from class action handgun lawsuits.
Greater Gardner Chamber of Commerce President Michael Ellis said he does not expect the purchase to hurt H&R.
"As a subsidiary of Marlin they have done better than Marlin," he said. "They have had better earnings and better profits. So my feeling is that H&R is in a pretty good position."
The Remington deal is expected to close in January
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I'm not a Handi expert by any stretch of the imagination, just bought my daughter one for Christmas.
As far as the acquisition goes, my guess is that not much will change with H&R that will be visible to the consumer, at least for the foreseeable future. Processes will be streamlined for sure, but I'm guessing what you will see happen is that the "new" company will make minor improvements to the line (maybe even needed improvements) but things that will not necessarily increase the cost per unit due to streamling elsewhere. They will hype the hell out of the improvements and what was once a 200.00 gun will now sell for 300.00. The price point will not scare away the loyal and the improvements will make them happy.
Call me an optomist.
KPC
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"They will hype the hell out of the improvements and what was once a 200.00 gun will now sell for 300.00."
hardly an optimist, more of a pessimist. I hope there is not a (50%!!!) price increase!!!....<><.... >:(
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Well I still haven't gotten over what happened when Remington took over the guns formerly imported by EEA, they jacked up the prices and pared down the selections. I see no reason to think it will be any different in regards to the Marlin/NEF take over, they will jack up the prices and pare down the selection. :(
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This has happened latly in the Transportaion bus. two Co. are bought out, then both
are made in the same plant, comes out the shipping door with two dif. names,
I am going to go out on a limb and predict, you will see some plants close, some models go away, maby some names. They will combine as much as possible (cost effective).
We may see some new cal. in the handi, we may see ether H&R or NEF names go away,
they will surly hang on to the lever guns. It will take a while for them to decide, bet they
already have a good idea, they may take the handi and make the stock fit, finish it better,
better wood, and only charge $500.00 each, that is my $.02
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I am happy I have the ones I do now!!!....<><....:)
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I am NOT panicing, but I figured that I best call Brownells - got several sets of replacement parts in the mail...while it's still in stock. http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,114104.0.html
doc
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One thing that should be good that comes of it for NEF fans is that Marlin no longer owns them. They will no longer be the red headed step child of Marlin and that I think has to be an improvement for you guys.
It might be that at least a small part of Remington's incentive was to stop the importation of cheap Chinese clones of the Remington 870. I do think it will end the cooperation with Hornady on any more new rounds for Marlin which also might have been an incentive for Remington as an ammo maker as well as arms maker.
There should now be more capital available for expansion if that is deemed desirable.
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I agree with MSPRet. I am happy to have the ones I've got. Wish I still had my first, that I purchased back in the '80s. :'(
Honestly, I think it's all in the numbers. I don't really think loyalty or tradition or any of that will make a difference. They are not gonna make choices that will not be profitable. Bottom line, will tell the tale, in the end. Just my $.02.
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It seems like Marlin has more to loose in this deal.
I can't see anybodies marketing dept making the base handi cost more than a 770.
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The one thing that scares me the most is Cerberus is a holding and an investment company and with all the aqusitions that it has made in the last couple of yrs I think they are about to start sucking the money out of these companies. I don't foresee them sticking much into them just my opinion. I may just have to go on a buying spree before it all comes crashing down with the new democrap president.Kurt
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http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/NYW02426122007-1.htm
not a real good deal , makes them an over seas company now ,
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I was reading on another site that some think that Marlin and NEF will work with Remington to improve their quality. On the big Company's page they mention nothing of Rem or any other gun makers. If the sales drop they will close the doors and sales aren't that high as many say.
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Why did Marlin agree to go along with this? What were they thinking is what I want to know?
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Question - Why did Marlin agree to go along with this?
Answer - $$$
as Cookiemann so wisely said, it's the bottom line that counts, and especially so nowadays
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Yeah. I just hate to see them go out in this manner. As it was mentioned Cerberus has nothing on their page at all on it. I emailed them asking why. Probably will get no reply ever.
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Rumor has it that Remington is coming out with a new slug gun this year!
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Yeah and a R15VTR and a Model 700 VTR. Marlins coming out with a bolt action and the trigger looks just like a Savage accutrigger(wonder why?) and NEF is coming out with a new frame that can handle a 300win mag and 7mag.
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My biggest fear is that all H&R/NEF and Marlin production will be farmed out to overseas manufactures in China, Turkey and/or Russia to save on labor cost. Off coarse the retail price wont come down any, in fact it will probably go up. :-[
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I'm with Brett on this. Prices probably will go up, here in MI. prices have been going up for a number of months anyway. Now I have to order that .204. I was going to wait a few weeks, but not now.
Nick :(
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I'm thinking the good ol' Handi-rifle may soon be a thing of the past.
If they do move production overseas, they're as good as dead as far as I'm concerned.
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NEF is more profitable than Marlin. They aren't going anywhere.
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hey
I am sure that nef h+r will still be nef. I have read all of these posts and after all of these inputs I believe that most are right on the money. Rem will do improvements and keep basic design but raise prices. How much, we will see they may just want to get rid of the 870 clone and keep nef intact. I pray that quality stays the same with the present employees. Moral is very important. If rem is smart they will read GB ( this ) web site and pay attention.
Bearbeater
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I think folks should wait & see what is in store for the Handi rifles...You can play what if all you want and it won't do any good...but I know 2 things for a fact...Remington has 1 very good custom shop...now don't they and they don't have much problem with over sized chambers & bores...now do they ;) ;) :D
Mac
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The first thing an investment company does after buying a smaller company is to cut employee benefits and freeze wages. This puts the employees of a gobbled up company into a terrible position, they are expected to put out more quality product for less! I have been a part of such things before and it is not pretty to be a part of. Usually after 3-5 years the company is resold to another investment company and the cycle repeats itself, again the floor employees are expected to make up for the hefty loan that was taken out to do the buying! As said above it is all about the bottom line and the greedy investers getting their blood money back as soon as possible!
Richard
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I don't remember what I paid for my 1st H&R, but its was around $100, and that was 25 years ago or so. The prices of most things have doubled and more in the last 25 years. If the prices of a Handi or Pardner goes up a little, I'm not gonna complain. It's still one of the best values around.
I guess, honestly, I don't care if the name changes. There are lots of benefits, to Remington, for aquiring Marlin and its holdings. Not the least of which is aquiring one of the best designed lever action riflles on the market. They have been makin' guns a long time and they have the pulse of the American shooter. The fact that H&R/NEF has been around all these years and has done it on the merits of a "top break single shot" firearm shows there is a market for this type of firearm. I think the Pardner Pump and the Excel will be gone, but the economil Handiis and Pardners can stand on their own merits and they will survive this. Maybe the Spartans will be the ones to be cut...from what I have seen, they haven't done that well. Who knows, maybe we'll see a top break over-under shotgun rifle that you can actually afford to buy come out of this. I could go for that! ;D
Hey "It could happen"
cookiemann
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It's true that Remington has been making guns a long, but I sure can't see where "they have the pulse of the American shooter". If they did they would not be in financial trouble. All the new cartridges they've introduced in recent years have been a total bust because no one ever needed them, same could be said for the defunct Winchester brand. In this day and age of easy communication it is astonishing to me that all companies don't have web sites expressly for customer feedback and suggestions, but do they? No, because upper level management don't want to hear it. The marketing department runs the show and the guy in charge has a background in sales of shoes or cars or whatever. They think the answer to poor sales is just to find the right marketing gimmick, we don't need to address the wishes of the public, we don't need product improvement, we surely don't need skilled labor, just find the right marketing strategy and I can sell anything.
I've seen some very frivolous decisions made by all the major manufacturers in recent years. How much did it cost S&W to design and tool up to produce a 1911 style handgun? And who needs it? Sure it is arguably the most popular design in the U.S. but everybody and their cousins are already producing it. Did the American shooters actually demand the S&W name on their 1911? So now they're producing ARs, as if we didn't already have plenty of choices in that style. And their much ballyhooed M&P pistol, just another Glock wannabe, albeit with a bit nicer styling, but who needs it? When going to the expense of producing a new firearm it would seem to me they should produce something NEW, not jump onto the bandwagon where the market is already flooded. But that is the U.S. corporate strategy, see what is selling and jump in there to "fight for a share of that market". Why not look for a market that isn't already flooded and have it all to yourself while at the same time giving the American shooter something they don't already have? Nobody seems interested in building a better mousetrap, they just want to sell the same mousetrap in greater numbers.
Sorry for the rant, but it just really POs me to see American industry all going down the tubes and it is entirely due to the corporate heads who get millions of bucks for running the company into the sewer!
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It's true that Remington has been making guns a long, but I sure can't see where "they have the pulse of the American shooter". If they did they would not be in financial trouble. All the new cartridges they've introduced in recent years have been a total bust because no one ever needed them, same could be said for the defunct Winchester brand. In this day and age of easy communication it is astonishing to me that all companies don't have web sites expressly for customer feedback and suggestions, but do they? No, because upper level management don't want to hear it. The marketing department runs the show and the guy in charge has a background in sales of shoes or cars or whatever. They think the answer to poor sales is just to find the right marketing gimmick, we don't need to address the wishes of the public, we don't need product improvement, we surely don't need skilled labor, just find the right marketing strategy and I can sell anything.
I've seen some very frivolous decisions made by all the major manufacturers in recent years. How much did it cost S&W to design and tool up to produce a 1911 style handgun? And who needs it? Sure it is arguably the most popular design in the U.S. but everybody and their cousins are already producing it. Did the American shooters actually demand the S&W name on their 1911? So now they're producing ARs, as if we didn't already have plenty of choices in that style. And their much ballyhooed M&P pistol, just another Glock wannabe, albeit with a bit nicer styling, but who needs it? When going to the expense of producing a new firearm it would seem to me they should produce something NEW, not jump onto the bandwagon where the market is already flooded. But that is the U.S. corporate strategy, see what is selling and jump in there to "fight for a share of that market". Why not look for a market that isn't already flooded and have it all to yourself while at the same time giving the American shooter something they don't already have? Nobody seems interested in building a better mousetrap, they just want to sell the same mousetrap in greater numbers.
Sorry for the rant, but it just really POs me to see American industry all going down the tubes and it is entirely due to the corporate heads who get millions of bucks for running the company into the sewer!
The buying American shooters like name recognition...and S&W certainly has that...You ask who needs those rifles...Well I'll tell you one thing as far as the AR's of S&W ...they are selling rather briskly..around here..and at a price cheaper than some of the others...Another thing...in the beginning...no one demanded a slab sided 45 ACP...and if it wasn't for the war...most wouldn't have since this was a revolver packing country with a few Lugers here & there......You talk about trying to build a better mouse trap as to guns...They have tried...and folks are happy with current designs...just as the majority of shooters always have...Come out with something new...and see what is said about it...Take you pick of what is being made...and look at the responses here already...people don't like change...The break action single shot has been around for how long...?...there isn't a whole heck of a lot they can do to them...that will constitute a new design...other than an electronic trigger or ammo...and that has been tried a few times already...As with most practical gun designs...those that work..work...those that don't...don't hang around long enough to make a ripple...let alone a big splash...
If Remington does run the company in the ground...and I kind of doubt they do but...(you never know stranger things have happened)....the Handi's we have now will increase in value..It would be a shame if NEF isn't around...but with as many of these rifles in as many configurations as what has been produced over the years..I don't see anything bad about owning them..or Remington's acquisition of the firm...Time will tell..
Mac
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they have the pulse of the American shooter.
coyotejoe
I'll give ya that one. That part may have been a little over the top ;D. But, like H&R and Marlin, they've been around a long time and they must be gettin' most of it right.
Does anyone know where the single shots are made? The base model SP100 MSRP on the Remington web site is $115. That's pretty close to a Pardner. How do they compare...fit and finish? Anyone ever do a side by side comparison? Do the barrels interchange on the same receiver? Can you even send it in to have a different gauge/caliber barrel fitted? What ever happened to the over-under rifle/shotgun they were gonna market?
These are just questions I have. Things that may play a role in the decision making process over at Remington.
cookiemann
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I think folks should wait & see what is in store for the Handi rifles...You can play what if all you want and it won't do any good...but I know 2 things for a fact...Remington has 1 very good custom shop...now don't they and they don't have much problem with over sized chambers & bores...now do they ;) ;) :D
Mac
You forgot the 3rd fact...They also have the worst Customer Service in the industry!
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Maybe Jennifer could help them solve that problem ;D
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they have the pulse of the American shooter.
coyotejoe
I'll give ya that one. That part may have been a little over the top ;D. But, like H&R and Marlin, they've been around a long time and they must be gettin' most of it right.
Does anyone know where the single shots are made? The base model SP100 MSRP on the Remington web site is $115. That's pretty close to a Pardner. How do they compare...fit and finish? Anyone ever do a side by side comparison? Do the barrels interchange on the same receiver? Can you even send it in to have a different gauge/caliber barrel fitted? What ever happened to the over-under rifle/shotgun they were gonna market?
These are just questions I have. Things that may play a role in the decision making process over at Remington.
cookiemann
If I remember right the Spartans are made in Russia, or at least they were when they first came out.
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they have the pulse of the American shooter.
coyotejoe
I'll give ya that one. That part may have been a little over the top ;D. But, like H&R and Marlin, they've been around a long time and they must be gettin' most of it right.
Does anyone know where the single shots are made? The base model SP100 MSRP on the Remington web site is $115. That's pretty close to a Pardner. How do they compare...fit and finish? Anyone ever do a side by side comparison? Do the barrels interchange on the same receiver? Can you even send it in to have a different gauge/caliber barrel fitted? What ever happened to the over-under rifle/shotgun they were gonna market?
These are just questions I have. Things that may play a role in the decision making process over at Remington.
cookiemann
If I remember right the Spartans are made in Russia, or at least they were when they first came out.
Thats right. As far as their CS I haven't had much trouble with them. Not near as much with others like Browning's bad CS.
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More facts...
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/connecticut/ny-bc-ct--remingtonarms-mar1228dec28,0,7040047.story
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I think folks should wait & see what is in store for the Handi rifles...You can play what if all you want and it won't do any good...but I know 2 things for a fact...Remington has 1 very good custom shop...now don't they and they don't have much problem with over sized chambers & bores...now do they ;) ;) :D
Mac
You forgot the 3rd fact...They also have the worst Customer Service in the industry!
No...not to me they haven't.....I've had excellent customer service from Remington...They used to have about the worse...but a couple years ago...they completely revamped that department...and since then...as long as you aren't rude or cuss them out..they normally take real good care of you..
Mac
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Copied from H&R's website:
Press Releases
Remington to Acquire Marlin Firearms
New CR Carbine in 45 Long Colt is highlight of H&R/NEF lineup for 2007
The Target Model and Buffalo Classic have long been favorites of the nostalgia crowd. Now you can get a carbine version of these models with a 22-inch barrel, chambered for another historic cartridge – the 45 Long Colt.
Remington to Acquire Marlin Firearms
Deal positions Marlin and its various brands for growth
Madison, North Carolina – December 26, 2007 – Remington Arms Company, Inc. (“Remington” or “ the Company”) the only manufacturer of both firearms and ammunition for Hunting, Law Enforcement/Security, Government & Military applications in the United States, today announced it has entered into a definitive agreement to acquire Marlin Firearms Company, Inc. (“Marlin”). The transaction is expected to close by the end of January 2008.
Marlin, headquartered in North Haven, Connecticut, also owns Harrington and Richardson (H&R), New England Firearms (NEF) and LC Smith brands of rifles and shotguns.
Tommy Millner Remington’s CEO, said, “I am pleased to announce that Marlin’s well known brands with a long heritage of providing quality rifles and shotguns to hunters and shooters around the world will join the Remington family. The opportunity to combine two historic U.S. based companies with such storied and proud histories, is both challenging and exhilarating.”
“We look forward to working with Bob Behn, a well respected member of our industry. He will remain as president of Marlin, charting a course of further growth and operational improvement,” Mr. Millner continued.
Closing of the transaction is subject to certain customary conditions, including regulatory approvals. Credit Suisse acted as financial advisor to Remington with respect to this acquisition. Duff & Phelps Securities, LLC, a unit of Duff & Phelps Corporation (NYSE:DUF), initiated the transaction, assisted in the negotiations and acted as exclusive financial advisor to Marlin.
Frank Kenna III, Marlin’s Chairman, said, “Marlin has been a family run business since 1924 and through a number of important steps, we have grown it into the company it is today. We knew it was time to find the right partner for Marlin to ensure our brands maintain their leadership positions and move into the next century.”
Mr. Kenna III continued, “We believe Remington’s commitment to the industry, shooters and hunters alike, combined with their resources from a manufacturing and sales and marketing position, will reinforce the confidence, hard work and dedication that our employees and management have put into our brands.”
Marlin manufactures a wide range of long guns, from the historic Model 39 and 336 rifles, which are the oldest shoulder arm designs in the world still being produced, to the XLR Series, which are the most accurate lever action rifles in the world. Its lever action 22 repeater, now the Model 39, became the favorite of many exhibition shooters, including the great Annie Oakley.
E. Scott Blackwell, Remington’s President of Global Sales/Marketing and Product Development, said, “The history of our two companies in innovation and meeting the needs of hunters and shooters around the globe, combined with the opportunity to further develop the Remington, Marlin, H&R, NEF and LC Smith brands, is not only beneficial to the Company and our channel partners, but especially to our to the end customer. And it is these customers and our employees that have contributed to the success and longevity of these brands.”
About Remington Arms Company, Inc.
Remington Arms Company, Inc., headquartered in Madison, N.C., designs, produces and sells sporting goods products for the hunting and shooting sports markets, as well as solutions to the military, government and law enforcement markets. Founded in 1816 in upstate New York, the Company is one of the nation’s oldest continuously operating manufacturers. Remington is the only U.S. manufacturer of both firearms and ammunition products and one of the largest domestic producers of shotguns and rifles. The Company distributes its products throughout the U.S. and in over 55 foreign countries. More information about the Company can be found at www.remington.com.
About Marlin Firearms Inc.
Established in 1870, The Marlin Firearms Company’s brands include Marlin, Harrington & Richardson, New England Firearms and L. C. Smith. Under its various brands, Marlin produces an array of lever action, bolt action, and semi-automatic rifles, a wide variety of break-open single shot shotguns and rifles as well as muzzleloaders and combo sets. The company maintains a corporate Headquarters and manufacturing plant in North Haven, Connecticut as well as a manufacturing facility in Gardner, Massachusetts.
Forward-Looking Statements
This press release includes "forward-looking statements" within the meaning of federal securities laws. Forward-looking statements give the Company's current expectations or forecasts of future events. These forward looking statements include expectations regarding (i) the proposed acquisition, (ii) the anticipated benefits of the acquisition and (iii) the timing of the proposed acquisition. The Company cautions that these statements are qualified by important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those reflected by such forward-looking statements. Such factors include the demand for the Company's products, the Company's growth opportunities, and other risks detailed from time to time in the Company’s reports filed with the SEC, including its Form 10-K Report for the fiscal year ended December 31, 2006.
The Company assumes no obligation to update publicly such forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.
http://hr1871.com/News/pressreleases.aspx#remington
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I think folks should wait & see what is in store for the Handi rifles...You can play what if all you want and it won't do any good...but I know 2 things for a fact...Remington has 1 very good custom shop...now don't they and they don't have much problem with over sized chambers & bores...now do they ;) ;) :D
Mac
You forgot the 3rd fact...They also have the worst Customer Service in the industry!
No...not to me they haven't.....I've had excellent customer service from Remington...They used to have about the worse...but a couple years ago...they completely revamped that department...and since then...as long as you aren't rude or cuss them out..they normally take real good care of you..
Mac
Mac,
That is good to hear. My experience with them has been from the 80's and 90's. All toll, 4 or 5 instances that were the worst, I had written them off. I guess I will have to give them another chance. Thanks for the heads up. The only Remington left in my house is my sons 870, and luckily it has been a good one.
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I haven't had to send one back since 1998. I have only sent 2 back.
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Maybe the microgroove barrels will finally go down the toilet.....
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It seems to me that this investment company is trying to put together a group of firearms companies that offer a broad selection of long guns. S&W has T/C and their single shots. Buying Marlin and H&R gives them Marlin's lever guns and H&R's single shots. T/C sells a lot of guns - and the Handi-rifle could be a real competitor if they standardized the new "magnum" frame and increased tolerances to allow full barrel interchangeability. Assuming that fitting "magnum" barrels to our "standard" frame is mechanically impossible, they would not have to worry about the "new" barrels ending up on "old" frames that might require fitting . Of course they would have price their offer a bit below T/C s ......... which in my opinion cost way too much.
Another reason for buying Marlin and H&R is that their guns are not as likely to be banned. Single shots and lever guns are hard to label as "assault weapons" :)
Speaking as a resident of the People's Republic of Kalifornia (at least until I retire to Idaho), yet another angle is that the more firearms are regulated, the more single shots with interchangeable barrels become an attractive option. It's hard to find deals on guns because there are few discount stores selling guns. In addition, by the time you pay fees, taxes, etc a $275.00 rifle will cost over $400.00 out the door. Anti-gunners want to disarm the poor first, so making guns more expensive is likely to be a tactic the push in other left leaning states too. Sooner or later the anti-gun crowd is going to try the same thing that has worked so well with cigarettes (I don't smoke, but I think taxes have driven the price up to well over $5.00 a pack). Look for it to be called an "impact fee".
A great advantage of T/C s and Handi s is that instead of going through all of the expense and hassle of buying another gun, you can just buy another barrel. No state fees, no dual background check and no waiting period. About 1/4 the cost of a new gun and I can even have it mailed to me across state lines!
Just my .02 worth.....
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Microgroove barrels shoot fine for me. Now the 2 greatest gun companies in the world are one. I'm not concerned.
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maybe it will work out like the bennelli ,stoeger,franchi uberti deal that turned out good in my book, they kept things goin as normal but really bettered all the lines, they are doin good last i read? all we all can do is kep the fingers crossed , maybe some emails and call later on when the deals done to inform the remington people we want the lines to be improved not sent down the river?
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Mac,
That is good to hear. My experience with them has been from the 80's and 90's. All toll, 4 or 5 instances that were the worst, I had written them off. I guess I will have to give them another chance. Thanks for the heads up. The only Remington left in my house is my sons 870, and luckily it has been a good one.
Yup...they have did a 180 turn around from where they were in the late 80's -early 90's ..They aren't perfect...but they are pretty damn good getting the problems fixed...I certainly hope that they leave NEF's C/S department alone..and intact...they could always use more help...but our guys & gals are about the best at what they do for the Handi's...The 870 & 1100 are the 2 best single barrel shotguns ever produced as far as I am concerned..springs..pins..trigger groups..choke tubes..extra barrels..different stocks...are easy to come by and easy to fix..
Mac
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Sure would like to see them put in a 21st century inventory system so they know what they got and what they don't got till some one goes out back and finds out they ain't got what they thought they had. Hell a Kardex system would work better than what they now use.Kurt
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I saw in my local newspaper, the Utica(New York) Observer-Dispatch, that Remington bought Marlin. Since Marlin owns H&R, your next H&R might be a Remington. I wonder if Remington's will start having micro-groove barrels? I hope that they have the sense to leave Marlin and H&R intact so we can have choices.
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Frank Kenna III, Marlin’s Chairman, said, “Marlin has been a family run business since 1924 and through a number of important steps, we have grown it into the company it is today. We knew it was time to find the right partner for Marlin to ensure our brands maintain their leadership positions and move into the next century.”
Boy, what a great Christmas present for the good folks at NEF and Marlin... ::) I wonder how many are sitting around right now and wondering if their job will be eliminated? I just can't fathom how you can just sell off the business that has such a great reputation and has been in your family for over 80 years? ....guess it is simple GREED.
Jim
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I should think if the Gardner GCOC president's statement is accurate, H&R employees shouldn't feel too threatened, but ya never know. ::)
Tim
http://wbjournal.com/j/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3055&Itemid=129
Gardner Firearm Manufacturer Sold
Written by Christina Davis
Thursday, 27 December 2007
The parent company of a gun manufacturer in Gardner is expected to be bought by North Carolina-based Remington Arms Co. Inc.
Remington has entered into a definitive agreement to buy Marlin Firearms Co. Inc. of North Haven, Conn., for an undisclosed sum. Marlin, a family-owned business, owns H&R 1871 Inc. in Gardner, which employs about 230 people.
H&R (Harrington and Richardson) was founded in the 1871, and at one time had a plant in Worcester. According to past news reports, the company was bought by James O. Garrison in 1991, who then sold the company to Marlin in 2000 citing mounting legal bills from class action handgun lawsuits.
Greater Gardner Chamber of Commerce President Michael Ellis said he does not expect the purchase to hurt H&R.
"As a subsidiary of Marlin they have done better than Marlin," he said. "They have had better earnings and better profits. So my feeling is that H&R is in a pretty good position."
The Remington deal is expected to close in January
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There's a little news item on the NEF website today. Did I miss a previous post about it? Marlin is being bought out by Remington. So -- maybe we'll see Handi-rifles in calibers not previously possible, like .260 Remington and .338 Winchester, since Remington can supply barrel stock in those bore sizes. And the .44 caliber issues might be cleared up once and for all.
The same thing is happening in many American industries -- big guys swallow up little guys, and the little guys go along because they can't afford to compete with overseas makers any more. Let's hope that Big Green doesn't decide to stop making NEF guns in the USA. They do import some rough single-shots from Russia already. I want to think positive and hope they will quit selling Russian guns and expand the plant in Gardner MA, give the workers a raise and install some modern machinery.
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Old news db22, I merged your post with the original thread. ;)
Jellyhead posted the H&R news on reply #75.
Tim
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The thing that worries me is, these are the same folks that have bought out Chrysler. How many more American companies will now be bought up due to the decline of the dollar? They have Chrysler, DPMS, Remington, and now Marlin/NEF. What is next?
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This does make me feel a little better that a big company would buy into the firearm market it lite of the possible court actions coming up.
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Microgroove barrels shoot fine for me.
Make that X2....I've never had a problem with them
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I hate to see another historic American company go down the road, but I guess nothing ever stays the same dose it? I wonder how many other companies were contacted by by Marlin. I hope Remington has great success with marlin.Nef product lines and the employees of the plants keep there jobs. Change is good sometimes and sometimes not
Time will tell
John
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Encouraging detail about the CEO of Cerberus, Stephen Feinberg.
Tim
" Feinberg has traded his tennis rackets for rifles. His new hobby is big-game hunting. On family trips to Colorado, he leaves before dawn, comes back midday, and takes his daughters on a hike. A few trophies have been sent to the taxidermist’s for mounting. “My guy friends are always, like, sketched out,” Lindsey says. “ ‘I don’t want to be with you. Your dad is going to shoot me.’ I’m like, ‘No, he’s not like that. He’s really chill. He’s a really laid-back guy.’ ” "
http://www.portfolio.com/executives/features/2007/08/13/Stephen-Feinberg-Cerberus
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Encouraging detail about the CEO of Cerberus, Stephen Feinberg.
Tim
" Feinberg has traded his tennis rackets for rifles. His new hobby is big-game hunting. On family trips to Colorado, he leaves before dawn, comes back midday, and takes his daughters on a hike. A few trophies have been sent to the taxidermist’s for mounting. “My guy friends are always, like, sketched out,” Lindsey says. “ ‘I don’t want to be with you. Your dad is going to shoot me.’ I’m like, ‘No, he’s not like that. He’s really chill. He’s a really laid-back guy.’ ” "
http://www.portfolio.com/executives/features/2007/08/13/Stephen-Feinberg-Cerberus
I guess that helps some. Still unsure.
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How long until he trades his rifles and puts these places out to dry? ???
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The latest article...
http://www.conntact.com/article_page.lasso?id=41655
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I hear we are now Remington.
Hope that is a good thing.
mike
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I would not consider being "Remington" a good thing. Larry
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I fail to see how it could be a bad thing.
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I've worked in a company that was 'taken over'. It was taken over by people with more money than brains. I don't see how a private company like Marlin(or its followers like us) can gain anything by being absorbed by Remington. Just watch-- cut, cut, cut, go the accountants.
Mc :( :( :( :(
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McLernon -- I saw the same thing at my last employer. It was a privately-held company that was sold to a large holding firm, and suddenly half the product line came from China. My job got moved, with no offer of compensation if I moved to keep it. Two of the four plants closed. I'm now working at another privately-held company that is growing like crazy and dedicated to adding, not exporting, local jobs. I consider myself lucky indeed.
Don't misunderstand, I don't want to see the Chinese starve or remain backward. But I want even more to see the USA prosper. NEF already sells Chinese-made repeaters, and Remington sells Russian and Serbian guns. Guess I'd rather have an old 870 made in Ilion NY, or a Handi from Gardner MA, than any gun from a country that does not wish us well.
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When Marlin, a formerly privately owned company, took over NEF I think my feeling was that Marlin cares about their quality and makes darn good guns so all will be well-- a good match. There was talk that Marlin would be making NEF barrels and this would be good for NEF fans. A positive feeling all round.
Now some Corporate entity decides to gobble-up Marlin. Wait a minute these corporate guys are just in it for the money and have no vision and probably no respect for the traditions of Marlin and NEF. I find this to be very very sad.
I just feel like moaning some more.
Hang on to your Marlins and NEF's.
Mc
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I can here it like it was yesterday although it was 40 years ago, "Spread out dammit! If you group together one F@#$%^& grenade will get you all!"I guess one cheque or one piece of threating legislation could have the same effect.