Graybeard Outdoors (GBO Reloaded)
Rifle and Optics Forums => Medium Bore Rifles => Topic started by: fatercat on August 05, 2010, 06:38:08 AM
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ask myself the same question. so, i went and bought one. not as flat shooting as my 257 weatherby, kicks a little more. it will take anything on this earth. it will be my grizz gun loaded with 220 gn. round nose. the 165 gn will take every thing else.
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ask myself the same question. so, i went and bought one. not as flat shooting as my 257 weatherby, kicks a little more. it will take anything on this earth. it will be my grizz gun loaded with 220 gn. round nose. the 165 gn will take every thing else.
I am grateful for the invention of the 30-06 Springfield. I have a 338-06 A-Square that I make from once fired or new 30-06 Springfield brass. Using Nolser 180 grain Accu-bond or Ballistic Tip bullets it marvels the 300 Winchester Magnum performance. I have loaded and shot 275 and 300 grain bullets, but my big bear bullet would be the Nosler 250 grain Partition. It also likes 200, 210 and 225 grain bullets as well.
I also have a 270 Winchester which with Nosler 110 Accu-bonds surprises the 257 Weatherby Magnum performance all in a 30-06 Springfield parent case lengthened just a bit. Mostly I use any 150 grain bullet which gives me easy MOA accuracy every time.
Yes, why don't you own a 30-06? It is truly amazing cartridge that gave life to wildcats and will live forever in them.
Just look at the 222 Remington and 50 Browning Machine Gun they are both 30-06 Springfield in design just smaller and larger.
yooper77
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I own 7ea 30-06s and use all of them regulerly. But my go to gun is a NEF Handi rifle in 30-06. I've taken Moose, Caribou, Black Bears, and loads of Wolves with it. I've even taken it to Texas and Tennessee, where I've shot Whitetail, Coyotes, Hogs, and even a Turkey with it.
The Caribou in my Avatar was shot with my 30-06 Handi at 250 yards.
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Wait, do you mean it's not required to own a 30-06??????? ;D I thought it was required, like apple pie and pick-up trucks. Membership in Greybeards....
Yeah, I got one, well actually two now, but planning on selling one. Hard to beat it.
Deerandduck
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ask myself the same question. so, i went and bought one. not as flat shooting as my 257 weatherby, kicks a little more. it will take anything on this earth. it will be my grizz gun loaded with 220 gn. round nose. the 165 gn will take every thing else.
You may want to rethink any non premium 220RN bullet, as the 200 grain bullets out perform the 220's in every way... And, on big bears the 200's, especially the 200NP's give the extra penetration that you will need for tough DG.
I've always kept my 30-06's loaded with 200NP's for my "one load for everything", and it works perfectly for that job.
Oc course, they aren't needed if you don't live or hunt where DG, like the big bears are...
DM
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ask myself the same question. so, i went and bought one. not as flat shooting as my 257 weatherby, kicks a little more. it will take anything on this earth. it will be my grizz gun loaded with 220 gn. round nose. the 165 gn will take every thing else.
You may want to rethink any non premium 220RN bullet, as the 200 grain bullets out perform the 220's in every way... And, on big bears the 200's, especially the 200NP's give the extra penetration that you will need for tough DG.
I've always kept my 30-06's loaded with 200NP's for my "one load for everything", and it works perfectly for that job.
Oc course, they aren't needed if you don't live or hunt where DG, like the big bears are...
DM
The 200 gr Speer Hot Cor works great as an all around load for the ole 30-06 as well. Its cheaper than the NP also. Mine drives tacks going out of the barrel at a modest 2500 fps. Just my .02
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ask myself the same question. so, i went and bought one. not as flat shooting as my 257 weatherby, kicks a little more. it will take anything on this earth. it will be my grizz gun loaded with 220 gn. round nose. the 165 gn will take every thing else.
Cause my 300 Win Mag will out preform the 30-06 with the 165's and all heavier bullets too...or even the 338-06 A-square I had and dearly loved..For some of us,the added recoil and expense is worth it,stepping up to a magnum. Even if I had multiple rifles to choose from,that wouldn't make a big enough difference to me and how and where I hunt now-a-days.I've had a bunch of very good 30-06 over the past few years..all were fine examples of just how accurate a 30-06 rifle could be..but..moving to the stage of life I am now,by reducing not only all the expense of shooting multiple calibers but of buying the rifles themselves just makes things a lot simpler and having just 1 high power rifle that will take anything I ever want at ranges far exceeding what the venerable o6' can do or loaded down sedate levels when I choose to is very appealing,and this allows me great peace of mind.It's not that I don't like the 30-06..not at all..because I do..it's a great cartridge,but that is just like the rest of life..there is always different great things to choose from..I just choose not to shoot it now or own one. What I have now and soon is 1 excellent HP rifle..1 excellent rim fire rifle(yet to be purchased)..1 excellent shotgun..1 excellent pistol..no fuss..no muss..there is no where on this continent or many other places in the world I could go and feel under gunned..even for the biggest bears if I choose to. Folks may feel the same way with the o6'..I just don't..and that's what's make us all different,we all have different expectations,needs,wants,and desires..so what works for you..may not be my ideal choice.. ;)
So..IMHO..should every one have 1..not really..some folks don't have the need..
Mac
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I still have a VERY OLD 742 Woodsmaster in '06, and it's an outstanding universal round. I just don't have a lot of need for it where I hunt. I save it for that "some day" when I might get to hunt bigger game than white tail at ranges over 100yds.
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Wouldn't be without one. The .30-06 has never been improved by necking it up or down. It's perfect.
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I was going to say "Because I have two bolt-actions chambered for .308 Winchester and I have no need to shoot bullets heavier than 180 grains", then I remembered that I do, in fact, own a .30-06. Mine is a Springfield M1 Garand made in 1942.
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I Hunted for years with a '06 , As I got older I finally decided it was just plain overkill where I hunt in the north east,
After I married, Kids, mortgage etc. my priorities in life changed (for me for the better). I am probably never going to afford to take that "big hunting trip" (no regrets) I dreamed about when I was single with no other responsibilities in life except to myself.
So the '06 is now retired Happily above my Mantle.
I now hunt with a mod seven 7mm-08 22" barrel , The 7mm-08 is flatter shooting with equal energy and 40% less recoil than the 30-06, My mod 7 is lightweight, a pleasure to carry, pleasure to shoot , provides less kick , and a superb Deerslayer and much better suited for the terrain I hunt.
So yes I own an '06 but will probably never carry it again, unless I have a moment of nostalgia.
It does look nice above the mantle though.
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Wouldn't be without one. The .30-06 has never been improved by necking it up or down. It's perfect.
The 35 Whelen, 338-06 A-Square, 270 Winchester, and 25-06 Remington are all perfect and made by simply necking the 30-06 Springfield up and down without touching the shoulder. Not to forget many more perfect wildcats for the 30-06 Springfield parent case.
I also load the 30-06 Springfield Ackley Improved, which is an improvement of the parent by moving the shoulder to a 40 degrees angle.
yooper77
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Just different but not improved.
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I don't own one because it is common. I don't see any reason to be common or own a bunch of common things. It is perfectly adequite for just about any killing job on the planet, so what, many many other calibres are perfectly adequite as well. If it were indeed perfect why would someone go to the trouble of trying to improve it?
Other common items I do not and likely will not own include. A small block Chevy powered anything, a Glock 17 or any other for that matter, a Remington arm, and anything Nike. I can't really argue that any of these things are of inferior quality, but I have gotten by quite well without them, and will continue to do so. In the interest of full disclosure a Glock 20 does intrigue me.
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Just different but not improved.
Nope, my dies actually say Improved, so different yes and improved yes.
yooper77
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They have to make money some how. The problem with owning a .30-06 is that you don't need something else. I keep getting rid of rifles because they are almost as good as the .30-06.
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Because there are .308 Winchester, err, 7.62 NATOs.... ;)
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Only 200fps slower for the same money.
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The .30-06 AI is the most inefficient of all the P.O. Akley Improved cartridges. Not worth the trouble and expense, IMO.
One reason I like the '06 is because it IS common. Brass is,(used to be), cheap and easy to come by. If the need arises, you can find a box of shells in a remote gas station. Bullet selection is huge. The reason it is common is because it has got all it's different jobs done all over the world with great success for over a 100yrs. That is boring to some folks. I like it because it shows it is proven. There was another thread that asked, if you only had one hunting rifle.........? I chose the M-70 .30-06.
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They have to make money some how. The problem with owning a .30-06 is that you don't need something else. I keep getting rid of rifles because they are almost as good as the .30-06.
I first bought a Weatherby Mark V Synthetic in 30-06 Springfield, and had no trouble selling it for the Weatherby Mark V Ultra Lightweight in 338-06 A-Square, it was a very good decision. Yep is wears the best in optics too, a Leupold VX-III 3.5-10x40 mm scope.
I have another Weatherby Mark V Sporter in 7mm-08 Remington. Yes it also wears the best in optics, a Leupold VX-II 3-9x40 mm scope.
These are a great cartridges spawned from great parents, the 30-06 Springfield and 308 Winchester.
yooper77
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I did not get a 30-06 because of chance. I just happened to like very much two rifles in two calibers other than 30-06 and acquired them. I am not caliber obsessed, as long as it's adequate. I care more about the entire rifle package than caliber. I ended up buying two calibers that i had never heard of before and never considered buying because i liked the rifles. These are very nice rifles in calibers just as adequate as 30-06. Actually, one of them is "more adequate" ;D. I probably will never own a 30-06 because i don't need one.
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I can't imagine living without at least one 30-06. I love the history of
the round. It is also the first centerfire caliber that I shot, a big deal
to a junior high kid that had only shot a mod 33 Remington 22lr. It
was love at first blast! I used to go to the Army surplus store on my
bicycle and bring home a pile of mil-surp 06 ammo in my newspaper
bag. It would then get very noisy on the island that we lived on!!
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Don't own one because I don't need one. The .308 Winchester with a 180 grain premium bullet will do anything I need to do, with significantly less recoil and a shorter receiver. Yea, its 200 fps slower than the .30-06, but so what? I don't care, and apparently no animal I have ever shot has seemed to care, since they are all dead. And, if I really really "need" to boost up the performance to a standard .30-06 180 grain round, then I'll just buy a box of Hornaday light magnum rounds.
Now, don't get me wrong, I think the .30-06 is a great round. But, I just don't need one.
Regards,
Mannyrock
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I don't own one because I gave it to my niece's husband. It was a lefty Model 70 stainless with a walnut stock. With a scope on it, I figured it was too heavy to lug around. For the kind of hunting I do, my 30-30, 35 Remington or 45-70 leverguns are all I need. Besides, Ethan's a nice guy-a rugged farm boy who likes that rifle and will pass it along to future generations. Besides that, he's got plenty of farmland that I can hunt on for the rest of my days.
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"why don't you own a 30-06?"
Accusing someone of not owning a 30-06 are some fighting words. ;D
It's perfect just the way it is. There is a reason why it's the benchmark all others are judged by.
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what mannyrock said, the 308 win does everything I need :)
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There is a reason why it's the benchmark all others are judged by.
Ditto....everything else "is almost as good as."
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I just prefer the 270 and 338 Federal.............like the 308 more than the 30-06...........
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I just prefer the 270 and 338 Federal.............like the 308 more than the 30-06...........
As long as you understand why you're wrong and can accept it. That's the first step to covery and buying a 30-06.
(only meant in good fun bud)
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My first rifle was a Remmy 700 30-06,traded it for the 270 and never regretted it............I might, just might, buy a 30-06 barrel for my Rossi Wizard so you will like me.........
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I don't own a 30 06 because I currently own two. A remington 700 bdl and 760 bdl. I think I like the 760 best. I have owned in the past a 1903 a3 and a m1 garand. 06 is not all I own but it is as good as it comes in its class. I would not feel undergunned with them with just about anywhere in the usa.
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Ya know, in 2006, what with everybody talkin about the cartridge being 100 years old and all, it dawned on me that I didn't have a 30-06 sporter. :o Plenty of rifles for that round in military gard, but the last sporter I had was a Springfield I had redone into my beloved 338-06.
So I went on a quest. Figured I'd get a CZ since I didn't have one of those rifles. But at a gunshow a young feller had a table with a Remington M-700 Mountain Rifle laying there. It went home with me.
After a good cleaning it looked almost new so I put a scope on it and loaded up some rounds. At the range I used 2 rounds to zero and put the next 3 into an inch! That just kinda defines the 30-06... ;D Okay Swampy... AND the M-700! :D
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My first rifle was a Remmy 700 30-06,traded it for the 270 and never regretted it............I might, just might, buy a 30-06 barrel for my Rossi Wizard so you will like me.........
Victory!!! We have a man on the road to recovery! We like you.
I understand why didn't like your first rifle in 30-06. That's a remington thing, and whole different can of worms. I'm a Savage guy so I can poke fun at the remington guys all I want because my rifles will outshoot theirs. I made the mistake of buying a remington bolt action once. Won't do that again. I like their shotguns & the 750 though in 30-06!
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Yep, I do love my 870.......
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I own 4 currently, but will never buy another unless my child wants one. I am in the market for a smaller deer round now. I have had or do have most any common centerfire caliber on the market. Some I loved, some I hated. They were all adequate to kill the 150lb deer we have in Alabama. My next will probably be a 260 (6.5-308 A-Square). If you want to talk wildcats, give me a 308 parent case any day, but that is a personal thing about powder usage.
I will say that if I could only keep one, it would be my Remington Model 6 30-06 w/ Weaver K6 or Browning BAR Safari II w/ Nikon Monarch.
No replacing the 30-06 for the best all-around cartridge in my book.
Daman
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If you think a Savage will out shoot a Remington, then you need to wake up and get out of bed.
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If you think a Savage will out shoot a Remington, then you need to wake up and get out of bed.
Any range, any time sir. :)
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If you think a Savage will out shoot a Remington, then you need to wake up and get out of bed.
Any range, any time sir. :)
I'll let you and Swampman hash out which is more accurate. I have shot both and both probably can shoot better than I could shoot them in more capable hand. No complaints with either . But I gotta be honest from an aesthetics point of view , the Remmy every time .
My next purchase (wish list) will be a 700 Remmy CDL SF , unless they come out with a Mod seven CDL SF.
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What a great thread. After hearing the '06 bashed on forums and magazines lately it is good to see so many who respect it for the great,(maybe greatest) round that it is. When I thinned the herd I sold my Garand and my 742 bit the dust and wasn't worth the cost of repairs so I sold it "as is". And even though I huunt in the swamps with handguns and Guide Guns, and at times shoot a .375H&H just for kicks (literally), I still can't foresee ever parting with my Mod 70-'06. Too perfect!
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ask myself the same question. so, i went and bought one. not as flat shooting as my 257 weatherby, kicks a little more. it will take anything on this earth. it will be my grizz gun loaded with 220 gn. round nose. the 165 gn will take every thing else.
Because back in the late 1800s through the middle of the last century,every country made a gun that used a cartridge that was "about like a 30-06". I have Mosins in 7.62x54R,military Mausers in 8mm Mauser and a Steyr M95 in 8x56R. I guess if I found a rifle I liked in 30-06 I would buy it. Its a great cartridge,no doubt. This year though,Im leaning toward using either ex-sniper Mosin,with a repro PU scope or the M95 with a reflex sight mounted to the rear sight base. The M95 is a really handy little carbine,so Im really leaning toward it.
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Got two of 'em... a 700 SS and a Garand. The 700 was the first big game rifle I ever bought. I bought it because I knew I could hunt just about anything with it. If for some reason I were forced to sell off all the other ones... the '06 is the one I would keep. More than accurate enough, more than enough power for deer, hogs, elk, moose, black bear and in truth anything except the biggest DG. I won't pull a Swampy and make an absolute statement of the '06's superiority but in my opinion the '06 has nothing to apologize for; others make do just as well, but none are so significantly better as to make me get rid of my '06's.
NGH
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But I gotta be honest from an aesthetics point of view , the Remmy every time
That's for sure.....
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I carry an 06 everywhere I go. Even when I am out with the Weatherby for shooting long distances, an 06 is on the 4-wheeler as back-up. I load three bullets. Speer 125gr TNT, Sierria 165gr HPBT, and Nosler 180gr Partitions. With those three loads I am ready for anything from Foxes to Grizzlies. I would not hesitate to shoot a Grizzly with either the 165gr or the 180gr. Both will do the job. I have killed a Moose with the 125gr TNT load, Tho I would not recommend it. Everything was just perfect that morning, and the shot went off text book perfect.
My son talked me into loading up a box of 165gr Nosler Ballistic Tips, and a box of 165gr Nosler Accubonds. We are going to test them on Wolves here in two weeks in the 40-mile country. Who knows we may even take a Cariobu or two. Sure to see a few Grizzlies as well. Want to see what the Accubond does for a Grizzly. I'll let you know if we are able to get close enough to one.
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I am just a whitetail deer/varmint hunter and I am 5'8" tall and a bit overweight. I have 22" barreled 7-08 and .243 Browning x-bolt and a-bolts. I don't need or want more weight or power.
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I tried the 7mm-08 for a season. I sold it as soon as I could.
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I am just a whitetail deer/varmint hunter and I am 5'8" tall and a bit overweight. I have 22" barreled 7-08 and .243 Browning x-bolt and a-bolts. I don't need or want more weight or power.
Nothing wrong with that. If you are comfortable and confident with your choices, by all means shoot away. From experience with both I will say that when the trophy of a lifetime walks out and stands just behind a small patch of bush, you will be wanting a 200 grain round nose something or better a 250 grain round nose.
Love both calibers, have both --- been disappointed more than once that I was toting one of the 2 and not my 35 Rem or 30-06.
Shoot em straight and pick your shot, any caliber will kill a deer.
Daman
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I am just a whitetail deer/varmint hunter and I am 5'8" tall and a bit overweight. I have 22" barreled 7-08 and .243 Browning x-bolt and a-bolts. I don't need or want more weight or power.
Nothing wrong with the 243 Winchester or 7mm-08 Remington for deer. I use my 243 Winchester with any 100 grain bullets with IMR-4350 and it delivers nothing but one shot dead kills. I can’t say enough about the 7mm-08 Remington, but use any 140 grain bullet with IMR-4350 and you will be a believer. I never felt under gunned carrying either. Both are proven game getting perfection.
Yes the 7mm-08 Remington is fully capable for taking Elk. I would select a 150 grain bullet for the job and yes IMR-4350. This is a recipe for Elk steaks.
yooper77
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I carry an 06 everywhere I go.
I assume its stainless so it wont rust in the shower?
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No, but it's not blued either.
(https://www.gboreloaded.com/mhp/images/Sourdough/guns083.jpg)
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I tried the 7mm-08 for a season. I sold it as soon as I could.
I Tried the 7mm-08 for a season , switched from an '06 as soon as I could.
I agree with Yooper77 , 7mm-08 Remington, 140 grain bullet = Deer in the freezer every time when shooter does their part.
very accurate deerslayer , in a lighter compact package with less recoil than '06 an a shorter throw.
Whats not to love, To each his own.
JMHO with a 7mm-08 you have the near perfect whitetail package. Of course if your into creating
bigger holes, tearing up more tissue, or crushing more bone that need be on whitetails stick with an '06.
If you need the use of heavier bullets for larger game , cant beat an '06.
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I am just a whitetail deer/varmint hunter and I am 5'8" tall and a bit overweight. I have 22" barreled 7-08 and .243 Browning x-bolt and a-bolts. I don't need or want more weight or power.
Nothing wrong with that. If you are comfortable and confident with your choices, by all means shoot away. From experience with both I will say that when the trophy of a lifetime walks out and stands just behind a small patch of bush, you will be wanting a 200 grain round nose something or better a 250 grain round nose.
Love both calibers, have both --- been disappointed more than once that I was toting one of the 2 and not my 35 Rem or 30-06.
Shoot em straight and pick your shot, any caliber will kill a deer.
Daman
Ahhh yes..the old brush busting theory and if you have a heavy round nose bullet just shoot at it through cover...Sorry..couldn't help myself on that one :D :D
I've owned (2) 7-08's before and really never cared for the round. If I was going to go with a 7mm non magnum..it would be the one based on the 30-06 case...the 280, There isn't enough recoil difference to amount to much and the added case capacity is there if I want to reload to higher pressures. Not saying the 7-08 isn't a good deer round..or you couldn't take an Elk with it because it is and you can..but it is already maxed out and lags behind from the start as compared to the larger cartridge.
Mac
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I've been watching this thread since the first day. I have read every response.
No one can deny the capability of the 30/06. That said, here is my answer to the original question.
First, I am a 25 nut.
Second, I have no need for anything larger than 25.
Third, Deer here in Florida are under 150lbs.
Back in the 60's I had a 1903A3 Sporter That I thought I had to have to efficiently take whitetail deer.
It would do that. I sold it for more than I had in it and did without a rifle for several years.
When I got back into rifles a gunsmith friend recommended a combination varmint/deer rifle.
Thus began my love affair with the 25/06.Since that time I have acquired:
another 25/06,257Roberts,250/3000, and built a 250/3000 Ackley Improved(on a Ruger#3 action)
So the lack of need and the lack of love are the reasons that I don't own a 30/06.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!
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Ahhh yes..the old brush busting theory and if you have a heavy round nose bullet just shoot at it through cover...Sorry..couldn't help myself on that one :D :D
I've owned (2) 7-08's before and really never cared for the round. If I was going to go with a 7mm non magnum..it would be the one based on the 30-06 case...the 280, There isn't enough recoil difference to amount to much and the added case capacity is there if I want to reload to higher pressures. Not saying the 7-08 isn't a good deer round..or you couldn't take an Elk with it because it is and you can..but it is already maxed out and lags behind from the start as compared to the larger cartridge.
Mac
Would love to try a 280, but would probably never purchase one. Looking at Chuck Hawks recoil table for example : Note : I don't reload.
280 Rem. (140 at 3000) 8.0lb rifle 17.2 recoil energy 11.8 recoil velocity
30-06 (150 at 2910) 8.0lb rifle 17.6 recoil energy 11.9 recoil velocity
7MM-08 (140 at 2860) 8.0lb rifle 12.6 recoil energy 10.1 recoil velocity
Short Range Trajectory
280
Premier® AccuTip™ 140gr 0.1@50 0.6@100 zero@150 -1.8@200 -4.8@250 -9.2@300
30-06
Premier® AccuTip™ 150gr 0.1@50 0.7@100 zero@150 -2.0@200 -5.4@250 -10.3@300
7mm-08
Premier® AccuTip™ 140gr 0.2@50 0.7@100 zero@150 -2.0@200 -5.4@250 -10.3@300 (interesting same as 30-06 with less recoil)
Long Range Trajectory
.280
Premier® AccuTip™ 140gr 2.5@100 2.9@150 2.1@200 zero@250 -3.4@300 -14.8@400 -33.0@500
30-06
Premier® AccuTip™ 150gr 1.7@100 1.5@150 zero@200 -2.9@250 -7.4@300 -21.5@400 -43.7@500
7mm-08
Premier® AccuTip™ 140gr 1.7@100 1.5@150 zero@200 -2.9@250 -7.3@300 -21.1@400 -42.5@500
For an all round Deer cartridge in various terrain, I'll stick with the 7mm-08 (Since all my shots are well within 300 yards there is just not enough difference for me to consider a change) and the milder recoil from the 7mm-08 makes it a pleasure to shoot.
For larger critters I'd probably stick with an '06
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one interesting side note , Using Horady 7mm-08 139GR SST (which I still haven't fired yet but lookin forward to ) Comparing velocity and FT lbs of energy you come quite a bit closer to matching .280 Rem. and put a bit more distance between the 7MM-08 and the '06 in Energy FT lbs out past 300 yards. I guess as with everything else Cartridge and Bullet Selection is Key. (enter the re-loaders ) Someday when I can afford the equipment. As of right now I'm using off the shelf.
Velocity
Bullet muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
280
Premier® AccuTip™ 140 3000 2804 2617 2437 2265 2099
7mm-08
Hornady SST 139 2950 2757 2571 2393 2222 2059
0-06
Premier® AccuTip™ 150 2910 2686 2473 2270 2077 1893
Energy FT-LBS
280
Premier® AccuTip™ 140 2797 2444 2129 1846 1594 1369
7mm-08
Hornady SST 139 2686 2345 2040 1768 1524 1308
30-06
Premier® AccuTip™ 150 2820 2403 2037 1716 1436 1193
Still love the 30-06 , Just love my 7mm-08 more. ;D
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Because there are .308 Winchester, err, 7.62 NATOs.... ;)
I thought 7.62 NATO was a different cartridge,like 223 vs 5.52NATO. My understanding is that the pressures and dimensions are slightly difference,and that while the initial dimensions are pretty much the same,the chambers have different tolerances. Ive also been told that the pressure in 308 is has a max of 62000PSI vs 50k for the 7.62. The commercial cartridges max pressure is close to the proof pressure for a 7.62 and the proof pressure for 308 is over 80K PSI!.
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the .30-06 is the last rifle I would ever give up, and I will probably have it buried with me. From bumble bees to brown bears, the '06 does it all quite well.
I have spoken to western outfitters who have stated that they would prefer to see guys from the east with their deer hunting '06 on elk than those who show up with a super magnum because the .06 guys usually can shoot 'em much more accurately than more powerful cartridges. A well aimed .06 will put an elk down for the count, whereas an inaccurate .300 RUM has potential to lead to disaster if the shooter is over gunned or not familiar with it.
I am sure that I am preaching to the choir by endorsing placement over caliber.
My father used it in WWII and swore by that round. It is all he ever endorsed.
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A well aimed .06 will put an elk down for the count, whereas an inaccurate .300 RUM has potential to lead to disaster if the shooter is over gunned or not familiar with it.
I'm a classic example of a guy who's never been elk hunting but bought a 300RUM based on reading chart and ballistic tables. That was almost 10 years ago and the trip never happened. Now thankfully I'm a little older and a little wiser and I don't have the 300RUM anymore, but I do have 3 30-06's. :)
My first 30-06 was an encore single shot and I took my first deer with it, so it can never be sold. The next 30-06 was my college graduation present to myself and it's a heavy barreled savage that I use at the range out to 1000 yards and have taken bear hunting. My latest 30-06 is a Remington 750 that's leaving to go bear hunting tomorrow morning. The 30-06 comes in many flavors, and they're all good!
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the .30-06 is the last rifle I would ever give up, and I will probably have it buried with me. From bumble bees to brown bears, the '06 does it all quite well.
I have spoken to western outfitters who have stated that they would prefer to see guys from the east with their deer hunting '06 on elk than those who show up with a super magnum because the .06 guys usually can shoot 'em much more accurately than more powerful cartridges. A well aimed .06 will put an elk down for the count, whereas an inaccurate .300 RUM has potential to lead to disaster if the shooter is over gunned or not familiar with it.
I am sure that I am preaching to the choir by endorsing placement over caliber.
My father used it in WWII and swore by that round. It is all he ever endorsed.
You are actually...
And a inaccurately placed bullet from 30-06 will wound a critter too. I know people who shouldn't shoot anything above a 22 rim fire..and yet they continue to blast away with their 30-06's..It's sad really..
Mac
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It's a good point, but I think it's generally accepted among shooters that for most people the 30-06 is probably at the upper limit of cartridge power before most people start to have recoil issues, like flinching.
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You are actually...
And a inaccurately placed bullet from 30-06 will wound a critter too. I know people who shouldn't shoot anything above a 22 rim fire..and yet they continue to blast away with their 30-06's..It's sad really..
Mac
I suspect many of those would do just as badly with the 22 rim fire.
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get an 06,learn to reload, you really don't need anything else. Course what you need and what you want have always been two different things ;)
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Reason 1, my safe is full
Reason 2, I need another safe
Actually I have a 30 06, my brother has custody of it(see Reason 1)
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If you can't shoot a .22 rimfire, you can't shoot period. However, many hunters often overgun themselves on an expensive hunt because a some shooting editor describes an instant kill with a whiz-bang magnum. Subsequently, they go out and buy a gun because they feel it will kill better than a their standard deer gun (.270 or .30-06), and as a result they tend to flinch or anticipate the recoil far more than normal. The recoil and blast from a .300 RUM is much sharper than a .30-06.
Besides, shooting is all about practice and consistency. It is harder to become more proficient with a gun where bullets are far more expensive, is shot less than a gun you are familiar with, and has much more blast and recoil.
... and yes the 06 is at the upper limit of recoil tolerance for most people. Besides, it is far easier to miss and subsequently wound an animal when you are afraid of the gun and are anticipating the recoil.
Sometimes people will parse hairs on anything to prove a point, and the reasoning is...
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I know this thread is to tout the virtues of the '06 (which I also think is a great caliber) .
However, Having made the switch to 7mm-08 for whitetails for reasons cited earlier.
(the old '06 still holds a place of prominence above the mantle in Livingroom)
I came across this great article.. discusses 3-06, 308 25-06, 257, 270 , 7mm-08 as deer rifle. And since I had already made the switch to 7mm-08 Thought I would share (you don't have to agree or disagree) it's just a good read.
http://www.huntthenorth.com/Theperfectrifle.html (http://www.huntthenorth.com/Theperfectrifle.html)
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Q: Why own a .30-06 when I have a .30 caliber rifles in .30-30, .308 Win and a .300 Win Mag?
A: Because having three is more fun.
Ruger M77 (slide safety) Walnut/blue
Remington M700 Walnut/blue
Ruger MKII Stainless/Laminate, soon to be Stainless/Boat Paddle synthetic (The laminate stock is going on a custom MKII I’m building.)
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I don't own one, I own six. I've never bought a rifle because it was a certain caliber. I have "not bought" some because of which caliber they were. A few of them are, 7mm Mag, 265 Win Mag, 300 Win Mag, 243, and some others. I do have a 308 Norma Mag that I built on a Mod 98 action. It'll do most things a 300 Win Mag will do.
I too, buy rifles because I like them. By attrition I have ended up with a pretty good variety. Now with that said there is one that I will build because of the cartridge, and that is a 6.5X55. It will likely be the last rifle I ever build for myself and I will likely use it to hunt with for the rest of my days. It and one of my 06s of course.
Alan
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Ch,
Though I have read your posts with interest and have read your preference for 7mm and .300 mag ( ipobably would have a 7mm or . 300 if I lived where you do), I always thought you had and admired the .30-06, and/or killed deer with it. Maybe it was your son in-law. Just curious.
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I have owned a 30-06, and it is a fine cartridge. Mine kicked pretty good, a Winchester Model 70 lightweight carbine with 20" featherweight contour barrel. Under 7 1/2 pounds with Leupold 2-7 scope mounted. I sold off all my rifles when I took a 5 year hiatus from shooting/hunting. Upon my return to my senses, I thought a short action 270 caliber would be the coolest thing for deer. (Was thinking .270 Redding) When I was in the local Walmart they had a Winchester Model 70 Super Shadow with tupperware stock in .270 WSM with a throwaway Simmons scope for $399. I researched the .270WSM cartridge and determined it was a near ballistic twin of the .280 Ackley and approached the 7mm Remington Magnum. I figured it also should be possible to load it down to .270 Win or 7-08 Rem recoil levels for smaller game. I bought one, figuring it would be my "do everything" rifle. Of course, since then I have added a Stevens 200 in .243 Win, a Howa in 6.5x55 Swede, and a pair of .223 Remington Heavy Barrel varmint rifles. I have no plans to add a 30-06, because I figure the .270WSM with a 150 gr Nosler Partition should handle the elk of my dream hunt, should that ever come to pass. The .223's handle gophers and rockchucks just fine out to 300 yards. The .243 can do duty on the varmints, and should also handle deer and antelope.
If I decide to add another centerfire rifle, I am guessing it will be a .260 Remington. Maybe Remington will offer it in the SPS with 24" barrel, if they do, I will buy one. IMO, it would be the optimum low recoil deer rifle.
That is why I don't and probably won't own a 30-06.
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Ch,
Though I have read your posts with interest and have read your preference for 7mm and .300 mag ( ipobably would have a 7mm or . 300 if I lived where you do), I always thought you had and admired the .30-06, and/or killed deer with it. Maybe it was your son in-law. Just curious.
Picked up my first .30-06 was a Ruger M77 purchased at a gun show in Conroe, TX, when my wife was hospitalized at MD Anderson for leukemia treatments. The intent was to go pig hunting and all my firearms were back in Colorado during our 4 month stay in Houston. That was the M77 walnut/blue, purchased in November, 2006, and manufactured in 1984. I floated the barrel, scoped it with a Burris Fullfield II, zeroed it with factory ammo and declared myself ready to hunt the piggies. Then my wife was released from the hospital and I didn’t shoot it again until after we returned home. Never did get to hunt pigs with it and in fact still haven’t done so period – something I hope to fix one of these days. After getting home I tuned the trigger and developed loads for the 165g North Fork and 168g TTSX, both of which it shoots extremely well. In 2007 I took two cow elk with it using the North Fork load. Both went straight down on the initial shot, got back up and went straight down for good with a follow-up shot.
In February of 2008 I purchased my second .30-06, a Savage 111GNS, as a wedding present for my future son-in-law. It got scoped with a Burris Fullfield II with Ballistic Plex reticle and I worked up 168g TTSX loads for it, which it shoots quite well. My daughter didn’t get married until August of 2009 so my future son-in-law hunted with it that fall not knowing it would be his less than a year later.
Then in March of 2008 I bought my (at the time, as I still had the Savage) third .30-06, a new Remington M700 “”Special Purpose Wood” model. It is blue with a real walnut stock, nicely finished metal and a floor plate but no grip cap or fore-end tip. It shoots well enough and I have hunted with it, but it remains a virgin in my hands.
As mentioned, the Savage went to my son-in-law as a wedding present and last fall (2009). He hunted both antelope, filling his doe tag, and elk. He had a shot at elk but never pulled the trigger. The 168g TTSX dropped the antelope doe with minimal meat loss.
Last April I purchased another used Ruger, now my third .30-06. This one a MKII stainless/laminate version, manufactured in 2001. I floated the barrel, as I have done to all my rifles that didn’t start out that way, and tuned the trigger. It got scoped with a Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14xAO. Until last weekend I had only shot factory ammo through it because it has a shorter throat than the other Ruger and Remington .30-06 rifles and won’t accept my long COL handloads.
Two of my nephews will be joining my son-in-law and myself for this fall’s antelope hunt in Wyoming. Last weekend I developed a 150g Ballistic Tip load that shoots very well in all three .30-06 rifles. I plan to try 150g AccuBonds also, and if things go as planned, use the Ballistic Tips for practice, saving the AccuBonds for final check-out and hunting. I think it would be fun if all of us used .30-06’s and the Ballistic Tip/AccuBond load, since it works in all three of my rifles, will prevent ammo mix-ups. (That said, I have promised my nephews they can use whatever rifle they want.)
So at this time I have one “blooded” .30-06 and two I have yet to take game with, something I hope to fix this fall. It has often been said that a man with a .30-06 doesn’t need another rifle, and there is a lot of truth in that statement. I always figured it was a good reason not to own one. Nowadays I don’t worry about justifying a new rifle on the basis of “need” and told my wife I passed that point long ago. Which means it is “safe” to have the .30-06’s in the stable...
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owning at least one o6, small block chev and a model 700 should be mandatory for any american. Let me see tonight im going to take my model 700 06 and stick it in my chev truck and go kill some crop damage deer! As close to heaven as it comes.
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owning at least one o6, small block chev and a model 700 should be mandatory for any american. Let me see tonight im going to take my model 700 06 and stick it in my chev truck and go kill some crop damage deer! As close to heaven as it comes.
oohhh, they have to love apple pie too... lol
DM
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Thanks for the clarification CH.
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I've got two: one my father made (stock that is) to sporterize a springfield .30-06 and a synthetic stocked Remington 700 ADL. I bought the ADL for a back-up and foul weather rifle. When I go on a hunt, I can always use the ADL as a back-up for whatever I'm hunting. Also, because the ADL is sort of an ugly inexpensive rifle, I can take it out in the rain whereas I'm sure I would be unhappy about exposing my other beautifully wood stocked rifles to the rain. While the ADL was inexpensive it shoots well. I topped it with a Leupold VX-III 3.5-10x scope. Rifle may be inexpensive, but it still depends on a quality sighting system to put bullets on the money down range.
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Wouldn't be without one. The .30-06 has never been improved by necking it up or down. It's perfect.
That is a true statement, but not for the reasons you might think - once the .30-06 is necked up or down it is no longer a .30-06.
“Improved” is like “better” – it is subjective and depends on individual situations and values. If one wants a do-all, jack-of-all-trades rifle, the .30-06 is an excellent cartridge. If one wants a dual purpose varmint/deer cartridge the .25-06 is a much better choice as judged by how many people vote with their money. As a dedicated deer rifle, a .25-06, 6.5-06 or .270 Win or .280 Remington gets my vote and if hunting in big bear country I’d prefer to carry a .338-06 or .35 Whelen.
While I own three .30-06 rifles and purchased a fourth for my son-in-law, my 6.5-06 Ackley is a much better choice for its intended use, which is long range work. The 6.5-06 AI will also do with ease anything I have or ever will ask my .30-06’s to do, which includes hunting game up to the size of elk. (If I ever go hunting larger game I again have better choices than a .30-06.)
While the .30-06 is a great and very broadly useful cartridge, it isn’t necessarily the best fit for every purpose. Its progeny are often much better suited to meet specific needs.
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Interesting post CH. I have a nice 06 that I never take to the woods. If hunting yotes i take a .223; if deer a .308, if hogs a 45-70 and occasionally a .375H&H for uh . . . . . squirrels. But if I could keep only one of these for all my hunting needs I'm sure it would be the 06 that I would keep. I hope my wife doesn't read this. She mind ask why I bought all those other guns.
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Ch,
Though I have read your posts with interest and have read your preference for 7mm and .300 mag ( ipobably would have a 7mm or . 300 if I lived where you do), I always thought you had and admired the .30-06, and/or killed deer with it. Maybe it was your son in-law. Just curious.
Bowjack –
Here’s a photo of the three .30-06’s referenced in my post above.
From top to bottom:
Ruger M77 tang safety, Burris 3-9x FF-II w/ BP reticle
Ruger MKII, Burris 4.5-14x FF-II w/ BP reticle
Remington M700 "Special Purpose Wood", Simmons 3.5-10x Aetec
Also:
New Ruger "boat paddle" stock to go on the stainless MKII .30-06
New Ruger long action receiver with magnum bolt face, probably a future .338-375 Ruger, to receive laminate stock from .30-06
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/IMG_10281.JPG)
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The 200 gr Speer Hot Cor works great as an all around load for the ole 30-06 as well. Its cheaper than the NP also. Mine drives tacks going out of the barrel at a modest 2500 fps. Just my .02
[/quote]
'twas my all around use for everything bullet for the 30-06 when I lived in British Columbia.
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Interesting remarks and everybody is happy! I have a BAR, LH St. Stalker, rem.760 ,and a sporter 03A3. It is easy for a non hand-loader such as myself to enjoy great factory loads, and be able to stockpile ammo reasonably.If the SHTF folks will wish they had .308 .223 9mm .45 22lr and the good ole '06.
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I added acouple 30-06 afew years ago so there just an addition to other calibers that I like. I used one last year on a late cow elk hunt not sure if I'll use the same rifle this year. If these rifles didn't have good barrels I won't own a factory 30-06.
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I don't have a 30-06 because i wanted to have something other that the garden variety standard deer caliber. I have a .280 Remington, .25-06 Remington, 44 Mag carbine, .35 Remington, 8x57mm, i think i have my bases pretty well covered.
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My FIL hunts with and ONLY with a 30-06. I prefer .243win (and soon to include 6.8spc). While i understand the coolness and history of the 30-06, it just doenst do anything for me...
I can do everything i want to with a smaller lighter recoiling caliber. Plus i prefer short actions. In fact personally i wouldnt ever use anything larger than a 30-06 when deer hunting, and even thats overkill.
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... because I have a 300 Winmag... ;D
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the o6 is one of the greats,however i wouldn`t hunt the griz`s with it
even tho they could put em down.
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I don't own a 06 because a kind fellow old me his elk rifle for $100 wh en I was more broke than I am now and God Bless him. At the time the only rifle I owned was a 94 winny. It's a Rem 700 chambered in 280 Rem. When I started hand loading I found out what a great cartridge it is. Later I aquired a BLR in 7-08 and a Savage 99f in 308. I kept the Savage and sold the BLR. The 308 is lighter than the Remington and is good to 300yrds. The Remington is heavier but good out to 500 yrds depending on conditions. Since then I got a Marlin 450 for pig and bear and I'm having a 6.5-06 built as a dedicated bean field gun. 06 is a good cartridge but I just don't need it and the 280 is superior. One gun can't do everything well but the 06 comes close.
If I had to choose one rifle and cartridge como it would be a Rem 7600 carbine with a 2x7 Leupold. Light, fast and accurate to 300 yrds. Then again my Savage 99f in 308 with a 2x7 Leupold is hard to beat ::)
By the way I love mom, the Flag, apple pie and own a Ford. (The Ford wasn't by choice either)
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ask myself the same question. so, i went and bought one. not as flat shooting as my 257 weatherby, kicks a little more. it will take anything on this earth. it will be my grizz gun loaded with 220 gn. round nose. the 165 gn will take every thing else.
I do
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Because i have a .308win and unlike swampman my chronograph actually works and it is not 200 fps slower. My .308 shoots about 50 fps slower than my .30-06's did. Besides...if velocity is king than a .300 mag trumps all right? Not for me...ill stick with the .308 in all of its light kicking accurate animal killing glory! I do like the 06 though! Glad you like yours too.
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I don't own a 30-06 but I do own two 270 winchesters and a 25-06. Does that count? (Maybe someday)
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Thanks for posting CH,
I have always read your posts with interest.
BJ
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Interesting but false....
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My son has my first 30-6. It's a Remington 760 circa 1972. I have a M70 stainless now. I have used factory 30-06 180gr CoreLokts and Bronze Points and Federal Premium 165gr Sierra BT's for deer. My hand loads have been equal to .308/7.62 x 51mm 165gr loads and the deer dropped the same as hit by a 30-06 velocity load.
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I would say I have no need for the .30-06 because I have a .308, and with 180 grain bullets will eaisly kill anything "I" will ever hunt. But then I have a Garand, so I kind of have a .30-06, only Uncle Sam called it something else. The .30-06 is better than the .308 argument must also mean that the .300 WM is better than the .30-06, because it will shoot any bullet that the .30-06 will shoot only faster. Myself, I just have no desire to own one, other than George Patton's finest rifle.
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I just dont understand the thinking that there is such a big difference in velocity between these two rounds. With factory ammo there is virtually no difference what so ever. If one wants to shoot one of uncle rico's spicy specials the 06 holds maybe a 100fps advantage over a spicy .308...maybe. And i have shot many many many 06 and .308 over chronographs. The way that i see it, if you like one, you by default like the other...they are virtually the same! They were designed to be the same!
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No reason not to own the good ol '06. I currently own 2. Have owned another once upon a time but I sold it because the barrel was shot out (wouldn't stabilize a bullet). My Savage 110 in .30-06 is my absolute "go to" gun. It's always accurate, always reliable, and generally just what I'll grab if I have any doubts. I always check it before each season starts to make sure, but I literally haven't adjusted the scope zero on that gun in 6 years now. Only problem is I lent that rifle to my brother last season and it still hasn't made it's way back home :) (not that I really mind - he's got a friend who's letting him hunt some leased land and he's got the possibility of some really long shots, and his only rifle is a .30-30, so I lent him the .30-06). I'll likely be hunting more with my .257 Roberts this year.
My other is a 1903 Springfield that was sporterized by someone else way back when. It shoots pretty well - not as accurate as the Savage, but good enough to hunt with. It's a little on the heavy side for my tastes though.
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I just dont understand the thinking that there is such a big difference in velocity between these two rounds. With factory ammo there is virtually no difference what so ever. If one wants to shoot one of uncle rico's spicy specials the 06 holds maybe a 100fps advantage over a spicy .308...maybe. And i have shot many many many 06 and .308 over chronographs. The way that i see it, if you like one, you by default like the other...they are virtually the same! They were designed to be the same!
The .30-06 beats the .308 by 200fps easy. The .308 is ok but it's no .30-06.
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I just dont understand the thinking that there is such a big difference in velocity between these two rounds. With factory ammo there is virtually no difference what so ever. If one wants to shoot one of uncle rico's spicy specials the 06 holds maybe a 100fps advantage over a spicy .308...maybe. And i have shot many many many 06 and .308 over chronographs. The way that i see it, if you like one, you by default like the other...they are virtually the same! They were designed to be the same!
There's quite a bit of difference if you shoot heavy bullets, and that's why i prefer the 30-06 over the .308 Win..
DM
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I agree with that. 180 is as heavy as i go so it doesn't concern me, but for 200s and 220s the 06 is better. 150-180 though is splitting hairs.
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So by that logic a 300 Win Mag beats a .30-06 by a quite a bit. In my mind the only thing in North America that needs anything larger than a 180 grain from a .308 is the grizzly or polar bear, and some would say that a 180 is big enough for them.
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If one is happy with what they use, that's cool with me. Like DM said, the heavy bullets give the 30-06 an edge. I have to include the 180's in that heavy group. If the 308 gives the velocity you are looking for, you are good to go, but the 30-06 will push the 180's harder.
I have watched this back & forth with Swampie & Joe with 50fps diff. being too low overall & 200fps difference being too high unless the bullet wt. extremes only were compared & only the one extreme compared to favor a point being made. For example, the 50fps is closer to right if comparing 150 gr. bullets but the 200fps would be closer if you looked at 200, but esp. the 220gr. bullets. In loading the 165gr. bullet in a 308, I have been able to get 2750 in a 24" 308 no problem & 2850 on ave. in a 30-06, some a little faster & some manuals showing speeds I never could achieve. Also, with the 180, 2600-2,625 with a 308 & 2,775-2,800 in the 30-06 after using RL-22 in the '06.
So easily we have a 100fps difference in the 165, 168, & 125fps difference with 175, 180 & 185gr. range.
Cartridges of the World took the easy path & just said there was a diff. of 100fps with all wts.
If you look at alot of manuals and average all of those, the numbers will be close to this my numbers mention I think, OR if you "cherry Pick" the fastest 308 max loads & the slowest 30-06 loads you can get that 50fps diff. if that's the one you seek or cherry pick the slowest 308 loads & the fastest 30-06 loads if the 200fps diff. is what you like.
I like & use both rounds & am not emotional about this as some aparantly are, but use what works for you.
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I would agree with 100 fps for up to 165, and 200 for 180's. I have no problem with the .30-06, and if I had found a rifle in that round first, I most likely would have gotten it. What I don't understand is the constant .308 bashing. You can always find a round that will out do another, but since 99% of hunters will never hunt elk let alone the big bears, I would say most are over gunned as it is. Myself, the 150 grain bullet does all I ever need on a white tail deer out to as far as I will shoot. FYI I have gravitated to a 7mm short mag, only because I found a gun I was fond of for the right price. Any thing .243 and up will kill a dear with great success.
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I prefer 200 grain bullets for moose too, so it does make a difference to me. Moose area "where i hunted" = brown bear area too... For deer, it doesn't make any difference either way.
The other thing is, i've hunted with a break open guns a lot, and they were/are chambered for 30-06 and not any 300 mags, so why not choose the 06 over the 308?
Another thing, forget a long bullet in a short action/.308, they just don't do well in that case.
DM
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I like the 30-06 because of the variety of loads I can run through it. For instance, in my rifle I have the following handloads.
168gr matchkings @ 2600fps: shoots just shy of 1/2" and it's my long range accuracy load. Similar to 308 loads.
220gr prohunters @ 2300: I load these up for bear hunting. My buddy did a number on a bear with this load.
168gr barnes tipped tsx @3000fps: Shoots just shy of 1" and if I ever go out west and need a very flat shooting, expensive and nasty bullet.
My only complaint about the 30-06 is that to have a semi auto you don't have much for options. I've got a DPMS in 308 that's just now being broken in, and it's slowly finding it's place at the top of my gun case.
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I just dont understand the thinking that there is such a big difference in velocity between these two rounds. With factory ammo there is virtually no difference what so ever. If one wants to shoot one of uncle rico's spicy specials the 06 holds maybe a 100fps advantage over a spicy .308...maybe. And i have shot many many many 06 and .308 over chronographs. The way that i see it, if you like one, you by default like the other...they are virtually the same! They were designed to be the same!
The .30-06 beats the .308 by 200fps easy. The .308 is ok but it's no .30-06.
Thats not really a lot all things considered. A fast barrel on a 308 and a slow barrel on a 06 and you wont see the difference.
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I just dont understand the thinking that there is such a big difference in velocity between these two rounds. With factory ammo there is virtually no difference what so ever. If one wants to shoot one of uncle rico's spicy specials the 06 holds maybe a 100fps advantage over a spicy .308...maybe. And i have shot many many many 06 and .308 over chronographs. The way that i see it, if you like one, you by default like the other...they are virtually the same! They were designed to be the same!
The .30-06 beats the .308 by 200fps easy. The .308 is ok but it's no .30-06.
Thats not really a lot all things considered. A fast barrel on a 308 and a slow barrel on a 06 and you wont see the difference.
And what happens if you get a slow bbl on the 308 and a fast bbl. on the 06??
DM
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And what happens if you get a slow bbl on the 308 and a fast bbl. on the 06??
You'd still have a nice rifle?
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The only rifle my Father ever owned was a 30-06. I still think he thought it was the only caliber made for whitetails. Just to upset him when i bought my first whitetail rifle i bought a 270. It has never let me down for the hunting i use it for.
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I just dont understand the thinking that there is such a big difference in velocity between these two rounds. With factory ammo there is virtually no difference what so ever. If one wants to shoot one of uncle rico's spicy specials the 06 holds maybe a 100fps advantage over a spicy .308...maybe. And i have shot many many many 06 and .308 over chronographs. The way that i see it, if you like one, you by default like the other...they are virtually the same! They were designed to be the same!
The .30-06 beats the .308 by 200fps easy. The .308 is ok but it's no .30-06.
Thats not really a lot all things considered. A fast barrel on a 308 and a slow barrel on a 06 and you wont see the difference.
And what happens if you get a slow bbl on the 308 and a fast bbl. on the 06??
DM
A lousy comparison, which happens when "research" is done just using 2 guns to compare.
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Keep in mind that max loads listed for the .30-06 aren't even close to max. We can't say the same for the .308.
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Actually I did. I use both the 308 & 30-06 as well as the 30-30AI in a Contender Super 14, pretty much ran the gament. I don't have a dog in this hunt & like both rounds alot without an emotional tie to either. I did have one number low in summary of the 180. I stated with the 180, 2600-2650 with a 308 & 2800-2850 & 2775-2800 for the 30-06. I then said easily 125fps diff, my bad, looking at the numbers it would be 150-175 diff.
One thing that DM pointed out is the limitation of the heavies in the short action 308, this is true. In the case of a mag action like the long action M700 which is a true magnum action, you can seat the 06 out if the throat allow & pick up a few feet, so I would certainly understand a 200fps diff. in that case, I did just that with a 30-06 I owned. I was talking about 308's & 30-06's in general, not specific rifles.
My point was & is the fact that the diff. is not 200+ across the board, but again the heavier the bullet gets, the more the spread grows.
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My very first hunting rifle is a 30-06 and its an old Western Auto Revelation manufactured by Mossberg in the early 70's. I bought it new for $172 with scope and rings(package). To this day she can shoot nickle sized groups with my reloaded 180gr speer mag tip bullets. I also own a remington 760 pump in 30-06 too. I think the old '06 shoots better with the heavier rounds like 180gr and higher over the 308win. I have rifles in 308win too so i have the best of both worlds. My main hunting rifle now is a remington 700 in 338win mag with its 4,000ft lbs at the muzzle and 2,700ft lbs at 200yds it has the muzzle energy of the '06/308 again at 200yds. she's my bear gun and when betsy speaks people listen because the whole town hears her sound off.
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I just dont understand the thinking that there is such a big difference in velocity between these two rounds. With factory ammo there is virtually no difference what so ever. If one wants to shoot one of uncle rico's spicy specials the 06 holds maybe a 100fps advantage over a spicy .308...maybe. And i have shot many many many 06 and .308 over chronographs. The way that i see it, if you like one, you by default like the other...they are virtually the same! They were designed to be the same!
The .30-06 beats the .308 by 200fps easy. The .308 is ok but it's no .30-06.
Thats not really a lot all things considered. A fast barrel on a 308 and a slow barrel on a 06 and you wont see the difference.
And what happens if you get a slow bbl on the 308 and a fast bbl. on the 06??
DM
Its a little more difference,but still,my point is,the difference in the two is getting to the point where its similar to the difference in guns. In fact,a fast barrel in a 06 vs a slow one might give you that sort of spread too.
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And what happens if you get a slow bbl on the 308 and a fast bbl. on the 06??
You'd still have a nice rifle?
I was going to say you either have a really nice 06 or you drew the short straw on your 308. In the former case you brag nonstop about how much more velocity your 06 gets than your buddies 308,ignoring the fact that the two guns are extreme examples,or if you have the 308,you either hang your head in shame,or just make up numbers and brag about them anyway.
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I just took a peek on the Hodgdon web site reloading center and the results surprised me. These loads are within 2k psi, so there is no need to tell me a .30-06 can be loaded hotter to get more velocity, unless you are going over sammi spec. The 125 grain bullets the 06 has about 140 fps on the 08. With 150 grain bullets the 06 has about 100 fps on the 08. With the 165 grain loads the 06 has about 65 fps on the 08. With the 180 grain the 06 still has about 65 fps on the 08. Now the one I was really surprised about was the 200 grain bullet, which the 06 has only 70 fps over the 08. The 220 grain bullet was not tested in the 08, so They have no data. These loads are the fastest loads listed for both rounds with the psi within 14-2Kspi for each. The only curve ball they threw me was H4350 is listed in c.u.p. which does not cross to psi. With these loads, I found another load that was within a few fps of the H4350. This is lab conditions with 2 tight barrels under the same conditions. Some would say that there isn't a nickles worth of difference between the two. I would say there is about exactly a nickles worth of difference between the two. Both are excellent rounds but if you have one of them, you probably have no real need for the other. It's kind of like comparing a 7mm Rem mag to a 7mm WSM. If you have one, why buy the other. Then again I have 3, .222's and 2, .223's, and there is not much between them either!
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I just took a peek on the Hodgdon web site reloading center and the results surprised me. These loads are within 2k psi, so there is no need to tell me a .30-06 can be loaded hotter to get more velocity, unless you are going over sammi spec. The 125 grain bullets the 06 has about 140 fps on the 08. With 150 grain bullets the 06 has about 100 fps on the 08. With the 165 grain loads the 06 has about 65 fps on the 08. With the 180 grain the 06 still has about 65 fps on the 08. Now the one I was really surprised about was the 200 grain bullet, which the 06 has only 70 fps over the 08. The 220 grain bullet was not tested in the 08, so They have no data. These loads are the fastest loads listed for both rounds with the psi within 14-2Kspi for each. The only curve ball they threw me was H4350 is listed in c.u.p. which does not cross to psi. With these loads, I found another load that was within a few fps of the H4350. This is lab conditions with 2 tight barrels under the same conditions. Some would say that there isn't a nickles worth of difference between the two. I would say there is about exactly a nickles worth of difference between the two. Both are excellent rounds but if you have one of them, you probably have no real need for the other. It's kind of like comparing a 7mm Rem mag to a 7mm WSM. If you have one, why buy the other. Then again I have 3, .222's and 2, .223's, and there is not much between them either!
Nosler gives 06 a 119fps advantage at 180gr, 94fps at 165gr, 51fps @ 150gr and 91fps at 125gr. They list 2560fps in the 06 for 200gr,which is a little less than 100fps less than for a 180 in the 06,and about the same as a 180gr out of a 308. They also list 2487fps for the 220gr from the 06 which is only 69fps slower than the 180gr from a 308. I have to agree,if your shooting lighter bullets,and dont ever want to shoot the heavier ones,there is little difference. The advantage seems to be that the 06 is CAPABLE of using the heavier bullets very effectively,and while I have no data on the 08 at these weights,I do like the idea of having a rifle that has extra capabilities. Even if I dont want to know,perhaps I might want those heavier bullets in the future.
I am actually interested in what the advantage of the 08 is. Its a little lighter,but Im not carrying hundreds of rounds of ammo.
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I just took a peek on the Hodgdon web site reloading center and the results surprised me. These loads are within 2k psi, so there is no need to tell me a .30-06 can be loaded hotter to get more velocity, unless you are going over sammi spec. The 125 grain bullets the 06 has about 140 fps on the 08. With 150 grain bullets the 06 has about 100 fps on the 08. With the 165 grain loads the 06 has about 65 fps on the 08. With the 180 grain the 06 still has about 65 fps on the 08. Now the one I was really surprised about was the 200 grain bullet, which the 06 has only 70 fps over the 08. The 220 grain bullet was not tested in the 08, so They have no data. These loads are the fastest loads listed for both rounds with the psi within 14-2Kspi for each. The only curve ball they threw me was H4350 is listed in c.u.p. which does not cross to psi. With these loads, I found another load that was within a few fps of the H4350. This is lab conditions with 2 tight barrels under the same conditions. Some would say that there isn't a nickles worth of difference between the two. I would say there is about exactly a nickles worth of difference between the two. Both are excellent rounds but if you have one of them, you probably have no real need for the other. It's kind of like comparing a 7mm Rem mag to a 7mm WSM. If you have one, why buy the other. Then again I have 3, .222's and 2, .223's, and there is not much between them either!
That's a good source, but I look at it a little differently because different sources have different spreads. That's why someone else has given another source & so on, I will look at a whole wall full of manuals & writeup. Because they did not show much spread with the 200 means very little, the next source may show 250fps diff for one reason or another. Sometimes they don't use alot of powders, etc, but looking at alot of sources tend to even out things to see the real difference. I don't have a dog in this & use both & as stated before, the heavier the bullet, the more spread. But the 308 has other qualities, I just don't know why it can't be left at that.
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Why don't I own a 30-06 ? I'm old and the recoil kills my shoulder. My hearing is more sensitive now too, so without ear protection, I'd have a headache for a week or two. But even when I was much younger I felt the -06 was a bit overkill for white-tail deer. I studied the calibers and settled for a .270. Great rifle, but I can't bear to shoot it anymore, so I've downsized to a .223 Remingtion. Hope I don't have to downsize anymore before I kick the bucket.
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I like to use a lot of sources to. The hodgdon site used 13 powders with the 200 grain .308 and over 20 powders with the .30-06, and they saw a grand 70 fps from trying over 20 powders! That is every IMR Winchester and Hodgdon powder that applies to either round. That is far more choices than ANY other source. The common argument is that the .308 is useless with 200 grain bullets because it will only fling them at 2300 fps, but the .30-06 is much more useful shooting a 220 grain pill at 2300 fps? If you use a bullet like an A frame, no animal on the planet will no what they just got shot with. Do I have a dog in the fight? Kind of, because I found a .308 barrel for my KP1 before I found a .30-06 barrel. I would have been happy with either and I would take either hunting for anything in North America, but for the heavy bullets, I would much prefer a .300 Win Mag or a .300 H&H. If I wanted to shoot the heavy bullets with an 06, make it a .338!
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I like to use a lot of sources to. The hodgdon site used 13 powders with the 200 grain .308 and over 20 powders with the .30-06, and they saw a grand 70 fps from trying over 20 powders! That is every IMR Winchester and Hodgdon powder that applies to either round. That is far more choices than ANY other source. The common argument is that the .308 is useless with 200 grain bullets because it will only fling them at 2300 fps, but the .30-06 is much more useful shooting a 220 grain pill at 2300 fps? If you use a bullet like an A frame, no animal on the planet will no what they just got shot with. Do I have a dog in the fight? Kind of, because I found a .308 barrel for my KP1 before I found a .30-06 barrel. I would have been happy with either and I would take either hunting for anything in North America, but for the heavy bullets, I would much prefer a .300 Win Mag or a .300 H&H. If I wanted to shoot the heavy bullets with an 06, make it a .338!
How many test barrels did the Hodgdon site use for the 308 & for the 30-06, 1 each, 3 each, what. The fact that they used alot of powders is why I said it was a good source, but likely with a limited # of barrels used, & was either cal barrel a fat or slow barrel? That's why I don't use 1 source, if you look at the Hodgdon manual they will give A TEST GUN used, just like the other manuals. The other manuals used not as many powders but used a mix of Hodgdon, Reliant, Win. & VIHTpowders with the optimal burning rates for the cartridges discussed, Hodgdon had redundancy showing all the powders regardless of burn rate because they are a powder company, the other manuals are bullet companies showing only the best powders of all brands with a given bullet.
So, looking at just a few which in total give a far more accurate picture than just looking at one powder company source with a test rifle:
Sierra Fifth shows a 250fps spread with the 200gr.
Hornady has a 190 gr & with it the spread shows 300fps (that is just as high a spread as the Hodgdon is low)
The New Nosler Manual does not even bother with the 200 in a 308, but has a page full of 200 gr. '06 loads, but shows a spread of 164fps with a 180.
The New Speer Manual shows a spread of 155fps with the 200gr.
Now these combined have alot more powders used by ALL major brands, alot of different type bullets,
a heck of alot more powder used & a FAR more accurate picture of reality. So, puuting it all together is the way to go. Anyone who has loaded both of these rounds alot as I have and see 50-70fps diff. with the 200gr. knows that something is alittle off.
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;D Right nowI have a Custom CZ 24/47 in 06 and jst put a Weatherby Vanguard Sub Moa on layway in 06 and this is my 7th. It is my go to cal for everything I hunt. If it won't fall to an 06 then I don't need to hunt it. My small guns are 25-06, 243 and 223 but the 06 is what i reach for most often. Jess
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Had an '06 in the past. These days I shoot better with smaller caliber deer rifles, plain and simple. Happy with a 257 BLR, an XS7 in 7mm-08, and a 336 in 30-30.
Deer can't tell anyway - dead is dead.
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Why don't I own a 30-06?
Well, the one I did own was stolen back in '91
I've got a Marlin in 30-30 which is sufficient. When I start getting lots of 200+ yard shots, then maybe I'll get another .270 ... or 30-06.
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There doesn't appear to be any SPECIFIC point to this thread, other than to say whatever you want to say about the .30-06, so that is how I'm going to play it.
I did not get into hunting big game until my father died and left me his guns when I was about 48 years old. I had pheasant hunted in Illinois growing up on a farm, but hadn't done that for many years. With the guns -- .25-06 and a .30-06 -- I started deer hunting. I elk hunted in Colorado in 2006, 2009 (first elk, 4 point bull), and will return again this October for elk first rifle season. Love it. I remember as a kid, however, reading hunting magazines and books and developing the distinct judgment that the .30-06 was an old fuddy-duddy, over-the-hill cartridge now shuffling along unsteadily in the dusty wake of more modern and excellent cartridges.
That is so funny, because now I have largely convinced myself that the .30-06 is pretty close to being a perfect cartridge. It doesn't shoot as flat as other cartridges. Point recognized and granted. But this probably is not an issue until you are shooting over 300 yards. How many among us has any business shooting over 300 yards? Can you reliably put 3 shots in a paper plate shooting from a field position -- not a bench -- at a uncertain distance of 300 yards (could be 280 yards, could be 330 yards)? It doesn't shoot as heavy bullets or deliver as much energy as some other cartridges. Again, point granted, but to what extent does this have a practical importance when hunting elk, moose, black bear, and smaller game at ethical ranges -- for the average hunter? Does a .338 Winchester magnum shooting a 250 grain bullet kill an elk deader at 200 yards than a 180 grain bullet shot from a .30-06? You get the picture. So, it is funny that what I once disparaged I now appreciate.
I like to use my .25-06 for deer of pronghorn. I have a hankering for a .338 winchester magnum . . . just because I have hankering for one. I have two .30-06 rifles. One is a Springfield sporterized by my father that looks and shoots very sweetly. Another is a Remington ADL with a synthetic stock bought cheap at a grand opening of a Bass Pro Shop. The ADL is my back-up rifle on all hunts. If the primary rifle gets banged up and I'm 1200 miles from home on a hunt, the ADL can fill the bill. If it is raining outside and I don't want to take my pretty wood stocked rifles out, the ADL gets the call. Because it is chambered in .30-06, it is not a niche rifle and can be used for any hunting I'm going to do (I'm not a grizzly bear hunter or brown bear hunter). I put a good scope on the ADL -- nearly twice as expensive as the rifle -- because while a cheap rifle can shoot straight and true, you still need a good sighting system to get you there.
Anyway, I'm a fan of the .30-06, though I'm also happy there are other rifles. I'm not a mono-gun-mous shooter.
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I've own several 30/06 rifles it's good cartridge, and will handle any thing that North American can throw at it.
The 06 has a well deserved long lived sterling reputation that very few cartridges will ever obtain in fact it is only limited by the shooter.
The only reasons that one does not own an 06 is personal preference , lack of funds, or they are still looking for one.
All of those reasons are legit, but attaching faults and limits to such a fine cartridge is pure BS.
I do not currently own an 06 ,but I will as soon as I find that that perfect for me Garand , 1917, or 03A3.
The reason I'm not looking for a hunting rifle in 06 is purely personal preference.
Pat
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The only reasons that one does not own an 06 is personal preference , lack of funds, or they are still looking for one. All of those reasons are legit, but attaching faults and limits to such a fine cartridge is pure BS.
+1. It'll hit accurately and kill far beyond what I should be shooting at game.
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The only reasons that one does not own an 06 is personal preference , lack of funds, or they are still looking for one. All of those reasons are legit, but attaching faults and limits to such a fine cartridge is pure BS.
+1. It'll hit accurately and kill far beyond what I should be shooting at game.
Correct and Correct again! I will never be without a 30-06. It was the second centerfire I ever owned. And that is only because I got a 30-30 as a gift. The reason I bought my '06 was because it is clearly the most versatile cartridge on the planet. Someday, I hope to give my son my 30-06 (so I can buy a new one).
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The .30-06 Springfield is as American as apple pie. Fine cartridge and capable of killing anything in North America. I do not own one as I do not have a need for one. The largest game animal I hunt are Missouri whitetail deer. I feel there are better cartridges for this job. I prefer the .308 Win, 7mm-08 Rem, or .243 Win. They are all deer slaying cartridges with a lot less recoil than the .30-06. Less recoil means less flinching... resulting in better placement.
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The .30-06 is as truly classic, and truly mundane (boring), as a huge bowl of plain vanilla ice cream.
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The .30-06 is as truly classic, and truly mundane (boring), as a huge bowl of plain vanilla ice cream.
First you insult a fine cartridge then you malign the most popular favor of ice cream.
Go to your room young man ;D
Pat
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I've had 3 traded all of them off for other rifles just haven't found one I liked enough to keep.
woods
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This is my .30-06 keeper. Stainless M-70 Sporter. I also have a synthetic stock for it.
I have no complaints about this one.
I would like to swap out the Burris scope for a Leupold though.........
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if you really think about it the 06 is the most versatile gun all you need plus a good capable side arm.i used to have arguments about the 270 witch i have had both are pretty close don't know witch is best.gust need to get the right gun that does the caliber justice. ;)
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I have had several 30.06 rifles through the years, gave a favorite one to a Missionary in South Africa back in mid '90s. I didn't get another 30.06 until it's 100th birthday ( our current configuration, not the old 1903 loading), 2006. It is a Remington 700 CDL, blueprinted, pillar bedded, Shilen trigger, 24" barrel. After break in, it shoots everything from Nosler 125BTs to Woodleigh 240RN! I just like having one around, even though I hunt with niche rifles more, my '06 is like a faithful dog..always there. :-*
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I recognized at an early age just how great the 30-06 cartridge really is, seeing much big game my dad took with one, moose, elk, bear, and too many whitetails to count, all went into our freezer! To this day i still think it's the best all around cartridge ever invented!
Over the years i drug this 30-06 all over the Alaskan bush,
(http://www.fototime.com/0DE81A342696BD3/orig.jpg)
And at less than 7 pounds, it's a joy to carry!
(http://www.fototime.com/CA68393464B2619/orig.jpg)
For longer shots, you just snap the 4x Zeiss on,
(http://www.fototime.com/3348565D488218A/orig.jpg)
And it's VERY accurate! The 200NP is a fantastic bullet for the 30-06, and what i feel is the mininum for big bears,
(http://www.fototime.com/7A027770069120A/orig.jpg)
I could easily live with a 30-06 being my only big game cartridge for the rest of my life.
DM
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When you got a 30-06 it is really difficult to justify getting anything else. Therefore don't buy one ! ;)
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D.M. that's a beautiful rifle!
Ben
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My .30 gun is a .308. It comes very close to the '06 except with really heavy bullits in everything and is a little less punishing. The other big reason is I like the short action. I am shooting a HOWA 20" Ranchland but will be going to a little heavier barrel, same length soon.
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When you got a 30-06 it is really difficult to justify getting anything else. Therefore don't buy one ! ;)
I think scatterbrain has come up with the best reason yet, to NOT have a 30-06... :)
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I think it's just a matter of need !
I don't shoot big game, and I have a .308 . A great cartridge, and versatile.
I shoot from 110grs - 185grs, without excessive recoil.
Potential excessive recoil has always been something I've associated with the 30/06.
To shoot heavier/more velocity, then obviously the next step to consider would be 30/06,
and then probably a Magnum, e.g. .300 H&H,
but there are many choices.
I'm more a traditionalist rather than a chaser of modern fads.
If I needed to shoot something dangerous I would probably start at .375 H&H.
Here are the .30 cal Magnum choices;
The 30/06 looks a bit skinny against the big boys ! :)
cheers,
SS
(http://bcraig.net/hosting/rifle/bullets/300%20mags.jpg)
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Because I can't find a early 1903 Springfield that is AFFORDABLE, oh wait I forgot about my Rem 742 guess I do still own one. Still looking for the 1903 though ::)
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Because I can't find a early 1903 Springfield that is AFFORDABLE,
Keep looking! There are reasonably priced ones out there. Unless you are talking about one still in military dress... :-\ In that case, well... to bad. :( I've got mine! ;D
But, like I say you can find S'fields that were formally owned by Bubba and suffered his "gunsmithing" exploits. I got a 1921 03A1 in great condition that is now my 338-06.
Oh. As a 30-06 it killed deer just fine with my favorite 165 gr. '06 load. Just like every other 30-06 made! :D
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I don't own one because i loaned mine to what i thought was a friend who wanted to borrow it to go on a bear hunt. Never seen the guy or the gun again. :( No big lose. My 270 does everything i want it to do. ;D I don't loan guns or anything else any more.
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I don't think i've ever owned a bad shooting 30-06, but then again, they didn't all shoot this good either,
(http://www.fototime.com/707492955A1C56B/orig.jpg)
And i've put a LOT of caribou meat in my freezer with that load/gun,
(http://www.fototime.com/B85D825D0B0658E/orig.jpg)
These days i don't hunt much with a 30-06, but that doesn't change the fact it's an amazing all around cartridge.
DM
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Good looking Caribou!
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My 280 Remington, IS MY, 30/06!!!!!!
crash87
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Heck,I thought everybody that had over three rifles had an '06.............
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I currently own 2 bolt action hi-powered rifles----both are chambered in .30-06.
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Oh, but I do.......... owned it for about 60 years now.
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I have a couple of 30-06's but to be honest once I got my new 35 Whelen I think they are going to collect dust lol. And yes the 35 Whelen is improved over the 30-06 :).
Next is a 358 Winchester. But I am thankful for the 30-06 and .308 parent cases to make these wonderful cartridges possible. :)
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Beacause I own a 35Whelen
Foggy
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I hunt Wisconsin and Minnesota once. I only hunted deer and bear. A 30-06 kicks an awful lot. I went with a .270 Win. and am happy with them. Little less bullet, little less cost. If I did it all over I'd just go with a .257 Roberts for deer and a 444 Marlin for bear. For deer it just seems way over kill. I do think it is the most efficient caliber there is. I can get 30-06 cases for 5 bucks per 100 bag at the gun range. Faster burning powder = less powder burned. Bullets are everywhere.
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cuz I like the 308 better........... :P
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I once thought the .308 was better. Now I'm older and wiser.
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The .308 Winchester is only better for functioning in a sem-auto or auto. For any thing else the 30-06 is superior, performance wise.
I'm now down to one 30-06 but having sold one yesterday, but am considering building another one, using a FN Military Mausr action, Shaw barrel and a Bell & Carson stock.
If you can only have one hi-powered rifle the 30-06 is the way to go. If you can afford multiple rifles you should still have one or more 30-06 in your inventory of rifles. Ammo and components are too cheap and readily available to not have one in the US.
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I've been watching this since the beginning.I don't own a 30/06. Why? I don't NEED one. I hunt whitetail deer and Oceola turkeys in Florida. I also shoot prairie dogs in Texas and Oklahoma. the rifles I use for these activities are:
25/06
257 Roberts
250 Ackley
243 Win
220 Swift
22/250
There is no possibility of hunting Elk or Mule Deer because I am unable to walk for extended periods of time and distance.
So, once again, I don't NEED a 30/06 and haven't WANTED one since the middle sixties.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!
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Jigger,
Even though I have a large inventory of rifles I still feel the need for another 30-06.
6 M/M Remington,
.257 Ackley Roberts Improved
.270 Winchester
7x57 Mauser
.308 Winchester
30-06 Mannlicher 19" barrel
.308 Norma Mag
8X57 Mauser Mannlicher 18" barrel
.338 Winchester Mag
.375 H&H Mag
45/70
.458 Winchester Mag
I may never hunt Elk, Mule Deer, Moose or the Big Bears or in Africa, but I'm ready to go. And a 30-06 would work on most everything in North America and all but the big three in Africa. Big boys have to have their toys.
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Well I have two, reasons are sentimental and historical!
I have a pre-64 Mod 70 Winchester that was my daddy`s until he passed away, and I have a Mod 7400, both are scoped. The Mod 70 has accounted for a multitude of deer and my daddy was quite a shot with this rifle and a few big E. Texas fox squirrels fell to the ground minus their heads on occassion as we would would be coming out of the woods from deer hunting.
The reloading options are massive with this round, my favorite is taking a 220 gr RN Hornady and loading it to the 30-40 Krag level of performance! Accurate and
definitely a good deer and hog round!!
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does anyone really read the tittle (why dont you have a 30/06) who cares why you have them tell us why you dont have one if you do not ::)
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Don't need one, my .308 kills deer Deader than dead!
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My first center fire was the '06 in a Savage 110 package gun. It did everything I wanted to do and more shot everything from Wissle Pigs to Muley's ;D I don't have the Savage any more as I traded in for another Savage 11 in .223 Rem. My '06 now is a Rem 7400 which makes the '06 alot easier on the shooter! I will alway have an '06 as it is the do everything cartridge. ;D
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The reason I don't own one is....... I gave mine to my Grandson ;D Only one I had!
The last five years or so, I've hunted with traditional Muzzleloaders. They make me a better hunter.
I started my Grandson with an H&R single shot 223 on deer, and switched to 06 with 150 grain pills.
He never had a problem with the recoil. His is a Sears model 53 version of the Winchester model 70.
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The best rifle I ever owned (and don't anymore) was a 700 Classic in 30-06. It was made in the 70's when the classic was offered in about six standard calibers. That was one dependable rifle and shot like a dream. One year it quit grouping and I let a gunsmith pull the action and barrel it as a 280 Ackley. The Ackley does not shoot any better than the 06 did, and probably weighs three pounds more and cost about five times more than the original classic.
I still have a 742 on 06, a Model 7 in 308, and a Model 70 in 300 WSM. I'd trade them all to have that old original 700 Classic in 30-06 back in my safe. Last I saw of its barrel, it was a horeshoe stake.
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I don't have one because the .308 win is inherently more accurate. I like punching paper. Out a ways the velocity the 06 has over the 308 doesn't make up for the group size difference. Cases are the one instance where shorter and fat is better.
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I don't have one because they are illegal for small game.
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I got my 2nd 30-06..........my last one was a Remington BDL in 1965. Didn't care for it's performance on a Colorado Mulie , (due to my "buck fever"). So I bought a 270 and watched whitetails drop in their tracks. Saw this post and started thinking, had a Remington 700 308 that was causing me trouble, so I traded it for a Howa 1500 30-06.
Very pleased with rifle and round, only fired 6 rounds through it sighting in scope, 35 MPH winds yesterday, didn't want to waste anymore ammo. 2 shot group was a inch, so I'm sure it can do much better. Was using 165 grain Core-Lokt...........
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I guess I should add why I didn't need one.........
223
22-250
243
6mm Rem
25-06
260 Rem
270
270WSM
280
308
300WSM
35Whelen
338 Federal
45-70..................
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I don't own one because it means too much to me. See, when I was about 8 years old my older brother let me shoot his 03-A3 with a steel butt plate. It rocked my world and of course made him laugh at my antics. When he was killed in Viet Nam that rifle went to my brother in law who subsequently sold it. I have always wanted a 30-06 but I WON'T buy one until I have an 03-A3. When I overcome my ancient fear of that vicious steel butt plate I WILL buy a 30-06 and maybe, just maybe use it instead of Dad's old .270 Remington.
Generations of rifles carry a lot of emotion.
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Because everybody else does .
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because every Bubba out there has one.
because i live in ohio and can't hunt with a rifle for deer.
because they kick way too hard for the amount of killing they do.
because i can shoot a .243 or 6.5x55 with a barnes and do the same jobs.
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Why don't you own a 30-06?
1. I did, but it was stolen.
2. I don't now, because I've got a 30-30, and it is sufficient.
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I don't own a 30-06 because i am saving my money to go elk or moose hunting one day, with my .338 Federal. Also, i shoot most game (feral pigs and deer) with a 6mm Remington.
Between spending for a 4th, 5th, or 6th rifle or a hunting trip, I somehow end up spending the money on a hunting trip.
My purpose is not to accumulate calibers and firearms. If the bullet is up to the task (AND THE SHOOTER!), i don't care whether it is .243 or .338, or .30.
I have a .22, very similar in shape, size, form, balance, scope, and trigger with the bigger rifles. I practice with it a lot (5-8,000 rounds per year from field positions); that is more important than having a 30-06.
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Because eveyone has one and I like the 358 caliber that shoots one shot and drop, Barnes is loading factory ammo, 180 grain TSX in 35 whelen @ 2900 FPS the Barnes factory ammo 180 grain TSX in 30-06 is around 2700 FPS. Think about it! From Bears to Pronghorn 180-300 + grain bullets and a Whelen is fun to shoot it pushes not kick you. Love the 35's
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Im usually in the dont want to own what everyone else owns camp. I wont use a 270 but love the 280. Never killed a deer with a 243 but have killed a bunch with the 6mm rem. ect. But in the case of the 06 theres a reason theres so many of them out there. They just plain work and nothing has ever came along that was one bit more versitile then the 06. Now i use it with the metality that its an old classic caliber kind of like the 4570. Ive got 3 06s and 3 308s and the 308s would be long gone before i ever sold one of the o6s as a matter of fact if it came down to God forbid only keeping one big game gun theres no doubt in my mind what it would be.
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I do own one. In fact, it was my second centerfire rifle purchase (a plain jane Savage 110 w/ wood stock). My first was a Marlin 336 in 30-30 (that one lasted a couple of months - just couldn't get excited by it). Nearly 30 years later, I still have that Savage, although I replaced the wood stock with a cheapo Ramline synthetic. The reason I've kept the 30-06 is it just does everything I ask of it. It'll shoot inside MOA (when I do my part) and with a 165 gn @ 2900 fps, will kill anything I'm likely to see. As far as kick, I say what kick? I do find it rather humorous that the .308 guys and I believe a 7/08 guy have claimed that their guns are far lighter and handier, while their caliber shoots just about as fast and carries as much energy downrange, but kicks so much less. Fellows, physics is physics, and that just aint possible. Unless of course you think that 8 or 9 grains of powder (in a load consisting of more than 200 grains of lead and powder combined) is going to make your gun kick 40% less (it won't). Anyway, I've since added .223, .243, several other .30 cals (mainly foreign surplus), 8mm and .338 to my toys, but the '06 will always be my go to gun.
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I do own one. In fact, it was my second centerfire rifle purchase (a plain jane Savage 110 w/ wood stock).
of one those plain Savage 110E was my first centerfire rifle (stolen in the early 90s).
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of one those plain Savage 110E was my first centerfire rifle (stolen in the early 90s).
That's too bad. Firearm thieves should be beaten. Bought mine in the early 80's. With that wood stock and hard plastic butt plate, it pounded me pretty good. Synthetic stock with an actual recoil pad and it's now a pussy cat.
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For a long time I did not have one! My reasons where same as most here. Simply because everyone had one and there is nothing bad you could say about one!
Now I have three!! I love them!!!
CW
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swamp man i tell my son he really likes the 25-06 he has areal nice 30-06 to i told him i see no improvement there i told him to compare loads in his manual the 30-06 is the ticket .you really don't need any thing else unless you think you need a magnum .
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MyEnfeild Sporter in 303 British seems adequate to me.
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Somebody actually stole a Savage 110 ? That seems odd . I was at Wal-Mart one day and came out to find that my truck had been broken into . Some low life had left a Savage 110 on the seat . I hope it wasn't yours , I gave it to a homeless guy ! I gave him $10.00 too , I figured with the $10.00 and the Savage to boot , he might be able to get a decent meal .
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You have something against accurate, affordable rifles? ::)
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That 110E in 30-06 was indeed stolen; board rules prevent me from referring to the thieves with appropriate sobriquets. But next time you have a Savage you want to give away, give it to me. I later bought another one - a 111F chambered in .270 - and it was a fine rifle. Accurate, didn't kick near as hard (as Casull reports, a 110E in 30-06 stings - I developed flinch from that thing. That I was young and stoopid shooting it without hearing protection just exacerbated things). That 111F was sweet. Wish I'd have kept it; I sold it during a layoff when I was feeling a little panicky.
The 336 isn't as good a rifle - heavier, can't reach as far as the 111F, pain to load/unload - but it's much prettier, and 30-30 is wholly sufficient. And it seems to me that venison tastes better shot w/30-30. Shot a buck with it Thanksgiving morning!
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I do think it is the most efficient caliber there is. I can get 30-06 cases for 5 bucks per 100 bag at the gun range. Faster burning powder = less powder burned. Bullets are everywhere.
Would someone please define efficient ?.
Formal definition = Achieving maximum productivity with minimum wasted effort or expense.
If by efficient one means less powder to energy ratios, I respectfully disagree. There are a lot more efficient cartridges out there than an '06. If by efficient you include Recoil into your definition again I respectfully disagree. Their are lot of cartridges out there that Kill deer Just as dead with Less recoil. If by efficient one means cost , well I suppose cost should play a factor in what is determined efficient. If by efficient one means application, I would tend to think a lot of variables come into play on what the term Cartridge efficiency would really mean, length of barrel , types of powder , weight of Bullet , terrain where one hunts, etc,etc..
I too own a '06 and I enjoyed hunting with it over the years, However my 7mm-08 does everything my '06 could ever do hunting whitetails in the terrain I hunt in but does so much more efficiently using less powder to energy ratios and less recoil energy and recoil velocity than .270 308, or 30-06. From a cost perspective ( I do not reload ) a box of hornady 139gr SST at 2950 fps runs aprox 27.00, a box of Hornady 30-06 Springfield, SST, 150 GR, 2910 fps, 25.00. my 7MM-08 has better BC and equals the 308 and 30-06 in trajectory (actually slightly better). It's trajectory is just a tad less flat than a .270. It surpasses the 308 and 30-06 in knock down power and bullet drop out past 300 yards. Inside 300 yards it's so negligible with bullets of comparable weight and composition the deer don't know the difference.
So for me the 7mm-08 is a much more efficient cartridge than the 30-06.
Personally I think some writer came up with the term Cartridge efficiency to complete a monthly column.
Every cartridge probably has an inherent sweet spot as well as a point of diminishing return, and those who hand load can probably leverage it best. With the 06 it may be efficiency come in with it's use of heavier rounds on larger game. As for me and whitetails using box ammo , the '06 will remain above the mantle as I see it as overkill for such thin skinned animals, and the 7mm-08 suits me best where I hunt. It's a perfect match - JMHO
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I do not have a 30-06 because I prefer to use cartridges older than that. Actually, when I want to use a small bore, I borrow a 30-06.
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After reading this ,I went out and got one this week. Not really, but I did buy my first 30-06 on Thursday. A Tikka T3 Superlite. I own a 7mm-08, .243, .270,.280,.35 Whelen and now a 30-06. While it won't do anything that my others won't do, I like to think of it as my "79 Ford truck" of rifles. It will be a lightweight, do-all everyday deer rifle. I also love the wide array, and availability of ammo.
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I never got into the 30-06, b/c it is about as interesting as diet vanilla ice cream. I'm lefthanded, and in the pre-GunBroker days, finding a lefty bolt action rifle that isn't equally bland was no easy task either. I eventually gravitated to lever actions, pump actions, and single shots. Now that I think about it, many of my caliber choices have been deliberately anti 30-06. First the 45-70, because it has freight train type impact without damaging meat (like I assumed the 06 would do), then the 35 Whelen b/c 35cal is just better than some chump 30cal, then 300win mag for distance, then kinda surprisingly 308 for lower recoil and mass ammo availability. I just sorta danced all around the '06 while intentionally avoiding it.
Then about 2 months ago, I stumbled across a NIB lefty Hawkeye 30-06 in target grey with a laminated stock. At the time I wished it would have been in 308 to go along with the same ammo as my AR10 and Rem 7600 308, but I loved the unique finish and rifle stock and bought it in spite of the '06 caliber. Wouldn't you know it, I sighted it in and killed a deer and a hog with it the same weekend. After shooting my 45-70, 300win mag, and 458 Lott, the 30-06 has almost no noticeable recoil...and the 150gr Corelokt went lengthwise through my deer, breaking the front and back leg.
I fully intend to keep cycling through my various rifles in hunting, but I now see why the bolt action and 30-06 are so popular. And with much less free time to reload and experiment with all my different rifles (3 young'ns under the age of 5), the '06 Hawkeye will be my go-to rifle...well, it and the 7600 and the 1895GS. ;)
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"I now hunt with a mod seven 7mm-08 22" barrel , The 7mm-08 is flatter shooting with equal energy and 40% less recoil than the 30-06, My mod 7 is lightweight, a pleasure to carry, pleasure to shoot , provides less kick , and a superb Deerslayer and much better suited for the terrain I hunt."
Is this information on the 7mm-08 true or opinion?
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"I now hunt with a mod seven 7mm-08 22" barrel , The 7mm-08 is flatter shooting with equal energy and 40% less recoil than the 30-06, My mod 7 is lightweight, a pleasure to carry, pleasure to shoot , provides less kick , and a superb Deerslayer and much better suited for the terrain I hunt."
Is this information on the 7mm-08 true or opinion?
True
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The 7mm-08 is flatter shooting with equal energy and 40% less recoil than the 30-06
The laws of physics would say that ain't possible.
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The 7mm-08 is flatter shooting with equal energy and 40% less recoil than the 30-06
The laws of physics would say that ain't possible.
Agreed, as much as I like and respect what the Lil 7MM can do, its NOT the equal in power to the '06. ;) It IS a more efficient use of the power it has and it IS done at less recoil than the '06.
You also dont mention a bullet weight.. so compare say the 150G in the '06 to the 140 in the 7mm.
The '06 will do high 2800 to 2900fps where the 7MM is high 2700 to 2800fps. (Rem, that's with a 10 gr lighter bullet.) I am not talking reloads here as we all can get 300 from a 150 in the '06 pretty easily while the Lil 7mm is only just pushed into the high 2800fps range.
It IS a great little cartridge that does everything a whitetail deer hunter would likely ever encounter.
CW
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The 7mm-08 is flatter shooting with equal energy and 40% less recoil than the 30-06
The laws of physics would say that ain't possible.
Agreed, as much as I like and respect what the lil 7MM can do, its NOT the equal in power to the '06. ;) It IS a more efficient use of the power it has and it IS done at less recoil than the '06.
You also dont mention a bullet weight.. so compair say the 150G in the '06 to the 140 in the 7mm.
The '06 will do high 2800 to 2900fps where the 7MM is high 2700 to 2800fps. (Rem, thats with a 10 gr lighter bullet.) I am not talking reloads here as we all can get 300 from a 150 in the '06 pretty easily while the lil 7mm is only just pushed into the high 2800fps range.
It IS a great little cartriage that does everything a whitetail deer hunter would likely ever encounter.
CW
CW
Yea, I saw that too, only thing right was recoil. At the least the comparison should have been 280-vs-30-06. That would have made the "flatter shooting" point at least worth debating, but not energy so much with equal pressure handloads.
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You wrote:
- (http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/Themes/default/images/star.gif)(http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/Themes/default/images/star.gif)
- To Split,
Re: why don't you own a 30-06? (http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,212978.msg1099448460.html#msg1099448460)« Reply #184 on: Yesterday at 09:56:41 PM »- Quote (http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?action=post;quote=1099448460;topic=212978.180;last_msg=1099448605)
"I now hunt with a mod seven 7mm-08 22" barrel , The 7mm-08 is flatter shooting with equal energy and 40% less recoil than the 30-06, My mod 7 is lightweight, a pleasure to carry, pleasure to shoot , provides less kick , and a superb Deerslayer and much better suited for the terrain I hunt."
Is this information on the 7mm-08 true or opinion? From Parkergunshop, this information is untrue it defies the basic laws of physics which the writer obviously never took in school."equal and opposite reactions" Muzzle Energy vs Recoil is not exempt from the law of physics. The 7mm/08 is a fine round but not equal to the 30-06 or .280 Remington just as it's parent the .308 Winchester is not equal to the 30-06.
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[size=78%]The 7mm/08 is a fine round but not equal to the 30-06 or .280 Remington just as it's parent the .308 Winchester is not equal to the 30-06.[/size]
well... for some purposes they're equal, or equal as can be determined by field result... don't you think? Or not?
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Well, I up and sold my sweet shooting Model 700 CDL in 30.06. I found that I never took it hunting in the five years I've owned it. In fact, the last time I used a 30.06 was back in the mid '90's. I thinned down the herd. While I could have sold all the others and made the 30.06 a doitall ( and do it well) I have found my .35 Whelen AI to be a truly all arounder; with fireforming loads I can shoot little deer or big deer/elk; with my full bore loads I've used it in South Africa. I just picked up a new ruger African Hawkeye in 9.3x62 just for grins. I will be using my 7mm RUM (which was a gift, couldn't sell it if I wanted to) this friday on a cow elk hunt, and my fast twist Shilen barreled 22-250 Ackley Improved works swell on varmints to deer/antelope/exotics. That's it for me...well...maybe, ha.
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[size=78%]The 7mm/08 is a fine round but not equal to the 30-06 or .280 Remington just as it's parent the .308 Winchester is not equal to the 30-06.[/size]
well... for some purposes they're equal, or equal as can be determined by field result... don't you think? Or not?
Not. Not in the context of the statement, which was specifically comparing performance between the rounds.
Purpose, well any cartridge may serve a "purpose" at hand, whether it's killing a Coyote, Deer, Moose whatever. Some purpose, like for Coyote, the 223 at 50 yds. would be "equal" in THAT result, so really no relevance here.
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7mm-08 is a more efficient cartridge
Cartridge (Wb@MV) Recoil energy Recoil velocity
-------------------- ------------- ---------------
7mm-08 (140 at 2860) 12.6 10.1
.30-06 (150 at 2910) 17.6 11.9
consider this: for a bullet that's 7% heavier traveling 2% faster the 30-06 has a recoil
energy 40% greater. The 7mm-08 trajectory is also a tad flatter. I would be interested
in knowing what hand loaders can accomplish with this great cartridge.
Cartridge Information
Cartridge Type Ballistic Coefficient
---------- ------------------ ---------------------
7mm-08 140 AccuTip™ Boat Tail 0.486
.30-06 150 AccuTip™ Boat Tail 0.415
Velocity (ft/sec)
Cartridge Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
---------- ------ ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
7mm-08 140 2860 2670 2489 2314 2146 1986
.30-06 150 2910 2686 2473 2270 2077 1893
Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
---------- ------ ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
7mm-08 140 2542 2216 1925 1664 1432 1225
.30-06 150 2820 2403 2037 1716 1436 1193
Long-Range Trajectory
Cartridge 100 150 200 250 300 400 500
---------- --- --- ---- ---- ---- ----- -----
7mm-08 140 1.7 1.5 zero -2.9 -7.3 -21.1 -42.5
.30-06 150 1.7 1.5 zero -2.9 -7.4 -21.5 -43.7
The 7mm-08, has a higher BC, retains velocity and energy longer. The .30-06 starts out 50 ft/sec faster, at 200 yards or so the 7mm-08 starts to overtake it. The heavier 150 grain .30-06 starts out with roughly 300 ft-lbs more energy but out at 400 yards they pack approx same punch. And the long-range trajectory of the two rounds is virtually identical.
7mm-08 More efficient , Does more or equal with less.
- JMHO
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7mm-08 is a more efficient cartridge
Cartridge (Wb@MV) Recoil energy Recoil velocity
-------------------- ------------- ---------------
7mm-08 (140 at 2860) 12.6 10.1
.30-06 (150 at 2910) 17.6 11.9
consider this: for a bullet that's 7% heavier traveling 2% faster the 30-06 has a recoil
energy 40% greater. The 7mm-08 trajectory is also a tad flatter. I would be interested
in knowing what hand loaders can accomplish with this great cartridge.
Cartridge Information
Cartridge Type Ballistic Coefficient
---------- ------------------ ---------------------
7mm-08 140 AccuTip™ Boat Tail 0.486
.30-06 150 AccuTip™ Boat Tail 0.415
Velocity (ft/sec)
Cartridge Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
---------- ------ ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
7mm-08 140 2860 2670 2489 2314 2146 1986
.30-06 150 2910 2686 2473 2270 2077 1893
Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
---------- ------ ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
7mm-08 140 2542 2216 1925 1664 1432 1225
.30-06 150 2820 2403 2037 1716 1436 1193
Long-Range Trajectory
Cartridge 100 150 200 250 300 400 500
---------- --- --- ---- ---- ---- ----- -----
7mm-08 140 1.7 1.5 zero -2.9 -7.3 -21.1 -42.5
.30-06 150 1.7 1.5 zero -2.9 -7.4 -21.5 -43.7
The 7mm-08, has a higher BC, retains velocity and energy longer. The .30-06 starts out 50 ft/sec faster, at 200 yards or so the 7mm-08 starts to overtake it. The heavier 150 grain .30-06 starts out with roughly 300 ft-lbs more energy but out at 400 yards they pack approx same punch. And the long-range trajectory of the two rounds is virtually identical.
7mm-08 More efficient , Does more or equal with less.
- JMHO
Many publications have provided such reports with a slight slant to bring 2 rounds a little closer than they should be.
O' Conner did it for years trying to show the gap between his beloved 270 & the 7RM to be smaller than it really is.
A 7mm 140 BC & a 30 cal. 165 BC are quite comparable actually & the ones logically compared.
First of all, both the 7-08 & 30-06 can be loaded to higher velocities than stated, but even more so for the 30-06. It is very easy to load the 150 to 3,000fps, Nosler shows 3056, but most won't do that. Actually, you can easily get 2900fps with the more steamlined 165 in the 30-06, Nosler says 3000, again don't count on that.
Anyone who is really trying to make a valid comparison would compare the 140 vs 165.
The 30-06 hits a good deal harder & a wee bit flatter, but not enough to get in an uproar about.
As far as efficient, who cares really & that was not the originall comparison. The 30-30 is more efficient than both with spitzers in terms of powder used for performance & others are more efficient than that. Sundra used to dwell on that & then use a less efficient cartridge, as we all do.
No flyes on the 7-08 & it's one of the best Deer rounds ever made, but send me on a trophy Elk, Moose or Bear hunt & between those 2 I would see no need to even talk about it. A 200 gr. Nosler Partition anyone?
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Easy answer... because I own a 270 Winchester instead.
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Easy answer... because I own a 270 Winchester instead.
I have one too & I use it some. I don't use 30-06 much right now, a 300WM much more often,but the '06 is a good round indeed!
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I own at least 5 of them in different brands and styles but don't use any of them.
Reasons, I have never hunted anything that my 270 couldn't handle.
If I would need something bigger, than I have my 45-70s.
Just never really cared for the caliber, only because I never really used one or saw the need to use one.
LONGTOM
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The 30-06 was copied from the 7mm mauser one of the flattest shooting calibers there is. Being a very, very flat shooting caliber would this make the 7mm mauser round more accurate being a very flat shooter with a little less in power over the old famous '06?? So the bottomline is were trading off power for accuracy?
I own 3 or 4, 30-06's and probably 5 or 6, 7mm mausers so i'm not saying i do not have one. The 30-06 is still an important rifle in my fock of rifles.
The 7mm/08, the 284win, the 280rem, 7mm rem mag, and the 7mm mauser all can us the same bullets when reloading. For some reason the gun designers just can't let the 7mm round go.
I been hunting with the 30-06 from 1973 to now. But i replaced my 06 with a 338wm. at the top of the heap in power. I still have my orginal 1972 mossberg $172 with scope/mounts with me. I still take it on every hunting trip too my son uses it now.
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"trading off power for accuracy", don't get that one. I figure I'm not since the best long range shooter in my safe is a 300 Sendero. ;)
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Easy answer... because I own a 270 Winchester instead.
I inhereted the .30-06...I love the .270 8)
Nice thread resurrection by the way.
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Never quite seen the virtues of a 270...
The 7MM Express was a up n comer when I was growing up. I fancied a Remington BDL so chambered... It was nto until much later I got one. Later still I built a 1909 Argentine Mauser in 280 with a Shillen barrel, Timney trigger and Fajen stock... She is a goof shooter. ;)
CW
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why don't you own a 30-06? (http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,212978.msg1099449726.html#msg1099449726)
(shrug) I've got a 30-30, which seems to work pretty well. I don't think I'll kill any more deer with a 30-06, so I don't have one. Plus, those things are loud...
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The 30-06 is a great round. Rich history, versatile, military and hunting around the world, adn probably what I'd own if I could own only one. That said, I have some 30 rifles in various calibers and not one in 30-06. I have everyhing around in from 30-30, .308, .300 WSM, .300 Weatherby, etc. they all do everything that I need it for. For hunting, I dont need one, but if ever found a nice Garand.......
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Well, after selling my 700 CDL '06 an the little Kimber 7mm08, I got to really thinking about how I had created quite a gap between my 22-250 Ackley and my .35 Whelen Ackley. I don't consider my 22-250 Ackley anywhere near being an "all around" deer rifle, though I have used .22 centerfires alot; and the Whelen is a tad much for smaller antelope,etc, though useful, but neither rifle had useful factory ammo available just anywhere. Reason I had sold that neat little Kimber 84M in 7mm08? It was just too fancy for wet weather,etc for me. I had hunted with it and the Whelen ( which is set up for wet weather) almost exclusively in the past 5 yrs.( Our deer/elk seasons can have rain/snow mixed) I even thought about having my 22-250 re-barreled (Mod 7) to .260 or 6.5/08 Improved; 7mm Rem SAUM, 6.5/284,(I've owned them all but the 6.5/08 Imp and the 7mm SAUM) but I just don't have the time to mess with more fireforming,etc, and another barrel, die set up, components, I'm up around $500-$700 easy, if not more. Not practical. No, I realized I wanted to have another "all around deer/antelop/elk rifle", with factory ammo available. So, I got to craving another 30.06!
Ha. I was looking around, and what I wanted was something light, like that little Kimber, but not as fancy, nor as fancy as my 700 CDL '06 was. I found one today in the used guns at a local gunshop. It's a Model 700 Mountain Rifle in 30.06; not a beater, but used enough to not worry about scratches,etc. It was $200 cheaper than the ones I saw on Gunbroker! I'll just clean it up, maybe have it pillar bedded, trigger adjusted, or replaced. Add my Leupold 2.5x8 on it and I'm in the berries again! I've had Mountain Rifles back in '92 in .280 Remington, and later one in .270. But wildcatting and trades got them, ha. I like them alot, a bit trimmer and lighter so they are handier than a regular 700 CDL even. Anyhow, I've had a 30.06 of one kind or another since my first one at 16, 43 yrs now. I understand how "everybody has one", and the reluctance to own one, but I've shot some nice animals with the ol '06, and it still impresses me. So now, I'm set; 22-250 AI, 30.06, 35 whelen AI, 9.3x62mm, and a 7mm RUM ( plus a .22 magnum) that's my rifles now. I think I have "the spread" covered,ha
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Well, after selling my 700 CDL '06 an the little Kimber 7mm08, I got to really thinking about how I had created quite a gap between my 22-250 Ackley and my .35 Whelen Ackley. I don't consider my 22-250 Ackley anywhere near being an "all around" deer rifle, though I have used .22 centerfires alot; and the Whelen is a tad much for smaller antelope,etc, though useful, but neither rifle had useful factory ammo available just anywhere. Reason I had sold that neat little Kimber 84M in 7mm08? It was just too fancy for wet weather,etc for me. I had hunted with it and the Whelen ( which is set up for wet weather) almost exclusively in the past 5 yrs.( Our deer/elk seasons can have rain/snow mixed) I even thought about having my 22-250 re-barreled (Mod 7) to .260 or 6.5/08 Improved; 7mm Rem SAUM, 6.5/284,(I've owned them all but the 6.5/08 Imp and the 7mm SAUM) but I just don't have the time to mess with more fireforming,etc, and another barrel, die set up, components, I'm up around $500-$700 easy, if not more. Not practical. No, I realized I wanted to have another "all around deer/antelop/elk rifle", with factory ammo available. So, I got to craving another 30.06!
Ha. I was looking around, and what I wanted was something light, like that little Kimber, but not as fancy, nor as fancy as my 700 CDL '06 was. I found one today in the used guns at a local gunshop. It's a Model 700 Mountain Rifle in 30.06; not a beater, but used enough to not worry about scratches,etc. It was $200 cheaper than the ones I saw on Gunbroker! I'll just clean it up, maybe have it pillar bedded, trigger adjusted, or replaced. Add my Leupold 2.5x8 on it and I'm in the berries again! I've had Mountain Rifles back in '92 in .280 Remington, and later one in .270. But wildcatting and trades got them, ha. I like them alot, a bit trimmer and lighter so they are handier than a regular 700 CDL even. Anyhow, I've had a 30.06 of one kind or another since my first one at 16, 43 yrs now. I understand how "everybody has one", and the reluctance to own one, but I've shot some nice animals with the ol '06, and it still impresses me. So now, I'm set; 22-250 AI, 30.06, 35 whelen AI, 9.3x62mm, and a 7mm RUM ( plus a .22 magnum) that's my rifles now. I think I have "the spread" covered,ha
Sir, I think you do have it covered! ;)
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Because I have rifles in superior chamberings for what I need. 7.92x57......don't get me wrong, the '06 is a fine cartridge but not the be all end all that many make it out to be. I have actually seen more deer lost to this cartridge than any other.
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I do have an '06 but I dont think it has even had 10 rounds shot through it. My Savage 270 does everything I need it to do since the biggest thing I hunt is deer and wild hogs. The only thing I dont hunt with the 270 is canadian black bear when I get the chance to go , I use my Ultra slug hunter for that but Im sure the 270 would do the job.
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Didnt have alot of money when I went shopping for a breech loader last November. The Savage 111 I bought is a .270 WCF. Never had one. Never wanted one, but the price was right( $ 230) so I decided to give it a whirl and if I didn't like it I could swap the tube for an '06. No need. The 270 is accurate, flat shooting and is Death Her Bad Self on deer. Of course, so is the '06. But i do like getting the ballistics and penetrating ability of 165 - 180 gr 30 caliber bullets with lighter ones( 130 and 150 gr respectively look at the sectional densities of a 165gr 30 cal and compare it to a 130 gr .270 and do the same for the 180gr 30 and the 150gr 270...) that recoil ( slightly) less.Plus, you can drive the 270 bullets faster than you can their ballistic equivelent with an '06. Gotta go to a mag to do that.
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Because I have rifles in superior chamberings for what I need. 7.92x57......don't get me wrong, the '06 is a fine cartridge but not the be all end all that many make it out to be. I have actually seen more deer lost to this cartridge than any other.
You must know alot of really poor hunters....................
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You must know alot of really poor hunters....................
Definitely. BTW, if they were lost with the '06, they would have been lost with the 7.92 x 57.
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I don't own one because I own a 30-40 Ackley which for all intents and purposes is a 30-06.
The reason I own this rifle, which is built on a single-shot '98 Mauser action is because I inherited it from my father. Since I thinned the herd, as they say, I only own three rifles and one handgun. The 30-40AI works great on deer, elk, bear and moose which are what I hunt.
If something were to happen to the Mauser and I had to buy a new hunting rifle it would be a 30-06. I have owned a few '06 rifles in the past, my favorite was a '03 NRA Sporter with Lyman sights.
In reality I think that any of the cartridges in the '06 class perform pretty much the same on game. I doubt if any animal would know the difference if it were to be shot with a .270, .280, 7MM, .300 Mag or whatever. But there is also the aesthetic side of things. The .308 is an ugly little squat looking cartridge IMO. The '06 case is nicely designed and, well, handsome would be the word, I guess.
History means a lot to me and the older cartidges hold a certain fascination for me that goes beyond such mundane subjects as relative efficiency, 2" of difference in 300 yard trajectory and whether one cartridge kicks more than another. Personally I can tell little difference in the recoil of a .270, .308, 30-06 and 7mmRM.
I have a small block Chevy and I hate apple pie. 'A 30-06 is never a mistake' is a cliche for a reason - it's true.
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You must know alot of really poor hunters....................
Definitely. BTW, if they were lost with the '06, they would have been lost with the 7.92 x 57.
If a guy can't kill a deer quickly with a 30-06 then maybe he should take up croquet and eat vegetables instead. Cuz it ain't the 30-06's fault....................
The 30-06 and .270 were the 'go to' cartridges for elk for about 50 yrs when the big boomers came to the party in the 60s. I have no stats to prove it, but I bet those two cartridges are still at or near the top of the list for most used for elk, with the the 300 mags. keeping them company. I could be wrong but I believe even the 7mm Rem. Mag. is on the decline because people have come to the realization that the blast and recoil from it aren't worth the meager gains in ballistics. Like Hooker posted earlier in this thread, people have their personal preferences, thats fine, but desparaging the 30-06 is just "BS".
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You must know alot of really poor hunters....................
Definitely. BTW, if they were lost with the '06, they would have been lost with the 7.92 x 57.
If a guy can't kill a deer quickly with a 30-06 then maybe he should take up croquet and eat vegetables instead. Cuz it ain't the 30-06's fault....................
The 30-06 and .270 were the 'go to' cartridges for elk for about 50 yrs when the big boomers came to the party in the 60s. I have no stats to prove it, but I bet those two cartridges are still at or near the top of the list for most used for elk, with the the 300 mags. keeping them company. I could be wrong but I believe even the 7mm Rem. Mag. is on the decline because people have come to the realization that the blast and recoil from it aren't worth the meager gains in ballistics. Like Hooker posted earlier in this thread, people have their personal preferences, thats fine, but desparaging the 30-06 is just "BS".
Actually, in a very detailed recent survey, 300 Mags are the most popular used for Elk. Doesn't really matter though, as the 30-06 will do fine.
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30-06 is an excellent hunting cartridge.
But I own a .308 carbine because of less weight and recoil. My handloaded 200 gr bonded bullet compares very favorably with 220 gr bullets for penetration and such.
TR
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Because I cannot afford a Garand or a BAR. ;)
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i dont own a 30-06 because i have a 308, 270 and a 7mm rem mag, it just falls in between.
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Said I would never own a 30-06 but just bought a Rem 700 BDL at a pawn shop for $339. Couldn't pass it up for that price.
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Great guns and very accurate!
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Because I own a .243 that takes everything up to whitetail, and a .300 wby mag for anything larger than that. Just cant justify an 06 at this point.
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Cause I just haven't found the right deal I couldn't pass up. I got just about every other caliber and up until about 6 months ago, didn't own a 30-30. I have been an avid whitetail hunter for years and didn't own the 2 calibers that have taken more whitetail than anything else. Shame on me. It is on my to buy list though, even though I really have no practical need for one other than I don't have one. :D
.270, 7mag, .308, 7-30waters (had this b4 the 30-30), .303, 7.62x54r, .243, 7.62x39, not to mention the .22 bores and pistol calibers. :)
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I guess get the original question but have not read many of the comments ! I started with a .30-30 I was given, went to a .6mm that I was given, and went to my first rifle purchase of a .270wsm , that I thought was the best thing besides sliced bread, but I watched a friend shoot a deer with a .30-06 in the hind quarter that absolutely blew my mind and changed my thinking. I ended up selling the .270 wsm and hav ehad two .30-06's since. With 168 grain Winchester Ballistic Silvertips , I have flat out dropped more deer than anything I have ever seen in any caliber. I have had one hog run 80 yrds but have not had a single deer make it past 10yrds and that was the only deer that did not drop at the shot. If they were neck shots or something it would be one thing, but I am generally shooting them in the lungs and they drop like a rock !!
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OK, I didn't own one so when I found one for $339 at a Pawn Shop I bought it, a Rem 700 BDL.
TACK DRIVER! Shoots great but the hard recoil plastic pad left me with a bruise. Took me back to my older brother letting me shoot his 03-A3 when I was 9. Rocked my world and convinced me to stop begging Momma to make big brother take me shooting.
Life is a circle and if you are smart you'll learn to enjoy tight turns
1" Decelerator works wonders, Sims, etc.
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Something to consider:
If the .308 Winchester had been invented first, and used for 50 years, and then some gun company had invented the .30-06 and marketed it as a "great improvement" over the .308 Winchester, or called it a ."308 Magnum", I have no doubt that the .30-06 would not have become very popular at all. It probably would have been a flop. I think most people would have said that the extra recoil, the extra length, the extra weight of the receiver, and the extra powder burned by the .30-06, etc. are simply not worth the gain of 10% or so in muzzle energy over the .308 Winchester, or the ability to use 220 grain bullets. And, they would have surely noted that the .30-06 cartridge is not as inherently accurate as the .308.
Mannyrock
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Yeah, what mannyrock said^^
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Something to consider:
If the .308 Winchester had been invented first, and used for 50 years, and then some gun company had invented the .30-06 and marketed it as a "great improvement" over the .308 Winchester, or called it a ."308 Magnum", I have no doubt that the .30-06 would not have become very popular at all. It probably would have been a flop. I think most people would have said that the extra recoil, the extra length, the extra weight of the receiver, and the extra powder burned by the .30-06, etc. are simply not worth the gain of 10% or so in muzzle energy over the .308 Winchester, or the ability to use 220 grain bullets. And, they would have surely noted that the .30-06 cartridge is not as inherently accurate as the .308.
Mannyrock
EXCEPT, that those of us that use our 30-06's for an all around cartridge that includes the "bigger" big game, use and need the EXTRA velocity with 200 grain bullets that the 30-06 gives, and i'm one of those guys.
There's no way i'd trade DOWN to the .308 win. for my hunting rifle.
DM
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I don't own a 30/06....because I own a .308..
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I actually do own one - I just don't shoot it. In my neck of the woods my 7MM-08 will do everything I need.
I only hunt local and the 7MM is fine for coyotes and deer, my two interests.
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I actually do own one - I just don't shoot it. In my neck of the woods my 7MM-08 will do everything I need.
I only hunt local and the 7MM is fine for coyotes and deer, my two interests.
+1
Hung my 30-06 whitetail rig up over mantle a few years ago. 7mm-08 provides all the performance my old '06 did , only in a much lighter ,sleeker , more compact package with less recoil and improved shooter accuracy for me. Made the change haven't looked back.
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I suppose if I could only have one rifle it would be an 06. Fortunately that is not the case. Like the posters above I mostly shoot short action cartridges now in 7mm-08 and 308. I also like my 280 and 270. Seems I have a different favorite every few years, but the magnum days are forever gone. Last trip to Idaho I took my largest whitetail to date with the 7mm-08. I was about laughed off the practice range when I arrived, yet I took the largest deer in camp.
A 30-06 would have been perfect since elk were also on the menu, but this old fat boy wanted a lighter rifle to carry up the mountain.
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I suppose if I could only have one rifle it would be an 06. Fortunately that is not the case. Like the posters above I mostly shoot short action cartridges now in 7mm-08 and 308. I also like my 280 and 270. Seems I have a different favorite every few years, but the magnum days are forever gone. Last trip to Idaho I took my largest whitetail to date with the 7mm-08. I was about laughed off the practice range when I arrived, yet I took the largest deer in camp.
A 30-06 would have been perfect since elk were also on the menu, but this old fat boy wanted a lighter rifle to carry up the mountain.
I live and hunt elk in Idaho and with a 7mm-08 with 160gr bullets I would not hesitate to shoot an elk. One of the most successful elk hunters I know shoots an old sporterized '93 Mauser in 7x57mm and he has never had a problem. I would still prefer an '06, but the little 7s are good elk medicine IMO.
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Maybe one day I will get one but until then my .270 does everything I need it to do and more.
I feel the need to point out that a major point that everyone keeps trying to make is that with the .30-06 you dont need any other gun. But where's the fun in owning just one gun???
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Well, I have quite a few nice rifles homebuilt by Grandpa on Enfield or Mauser actions.
And I bought others when I made a little money of my own.
Of all, my first choice is the 257 WBY. Low recoil, and I can follow my shot since the barrel
does not kick up. 9- lug bolt, smooth feeding, excellent stock and beautiful. She's
a ten of ten.
The 30-06 Parker-Hale 98 Mauser is also very nice, and one tenth as expensive
to buy and shoot. I love to reload for it and the brass lives forever. For the
money, an FN Mauser from Browning, Husqvarna, or even Sears' JC Higgins
in 30-06 is a great shooter for about $300, and puts Remington to shame.
I've never understood how anyone could buy a Remington rifle for fun and enjoyment
with so many others to choose from. Every one I've ever shot left me with a
bad taste in my mouth. But if you like yours, good hunting to you.
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We buy Remingtons because they are the most accurate production rifles in the world. A new Model 700 goes for $400.00 at Walmart. Antique rifles like those you mentioned are cool but are not as strong nor as accurate as the cheapest Model 700.
I have a rare 7mm-08 Model 70 stainless Super Shadow with a Bell & Carlson ultralite stock and have owned several 7mm-08s but I don't care anything about the cartridge. I wish it were a .30-06 or .308.
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30-06 is an excellent hunting cartridge.
But I own a .308 carbine because of less weight and recoil. My handloaded 200 gr bonded bullet compares very favorably with 220 gr bullets for penetration and such.
TR
IMO that is a lot of bullet for the 308 and bonded probably means high $ per bullet. Winchester loaded a very soft 200 gr. Silvertip many many years ago and dropped it because it wasn't really needed for anything.
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The 180 grain Core-Lokt is the perfect bullet for deer sized game.
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A 350 lb mulie maybe, I prefer 150 gr something or other.
PS
Ooops my mind wandered to the 308 Win
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Ruins too much meat and loses velocity at long range. On top of that the 180 will always be much more accurate.
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Antique rifles like those you mentioned are cool but are not as strong nor as accurate as the cheapest Model 700.
Respectfully, I disagree on both counts.
I looked at one of the WALMART Remingtons on Saturday and the bolt felt like it was full of sand.
Where can I find one that is not rough as a cob straight out of the box? I may buy one just to
prove you right, if they are as good as you say and I'm somehow missing the boat.
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A 350 lb mulie maybe I prefer 150 gr something or other.
Here's one. Bring enough gun.
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I'm sure a number of 243 Win or even 22-250 guys would bang away at this monster. :(
Weight wise I think a 165 gr bullet is a good all around weight for most situations.
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Does the Russian -06 count? 7.62x54R. Supposed to be as good as 30-06 up to 203 grain bullets.
Sent from my PB99400 using Tapatalk 2
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I guess I don't because everybody has one, I use 8x57, 8mm-06, 9x57,35 Whelen, 9.3x57, 9.3x62, 416 Ruger, 416 Rigby. I like guns that shoot heavy bullets, just me I guess. I live in the "Peoples republic of Minnesota", where nothing is allowed. Either 8mm gun I have swats deer loaded with 200gn bullets, it will probably do as well on most anything else. The other calibers I have are just toys for my shooting amusement. The 416 Ruger will put anything down if I need to ever do that.
BTW, I support all calibers and shooting and hunting, I am just answering the question.
Have a GREAT NEW YEAR one and all
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The .30-06 shoots a 220 grain bullet quite nicely. That's the bullet it's twist was designed for.
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I like the 30-06 well enough that i just bought another DR, chambered in 30-06...
(http://fototime.com/929EF5CD2C0C29A/standard.jpg)
DM
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The .30-06 shoots a 220 grain bullet quite nicely. That's the bullet it's twist was designed for.
Your mistaken Swampers...
It CAN shoot the 220g nicely, but the '06 wasn't built for the 220g bullet. ;) The 30-03 was designed to replace the 30-40 Krag and IT was designed for the 220g bullet... BUT the '03 failed for a couple reasons but one of the biggest was its use of that 220g bullet. It had chamber issues that stemed from too hi a pressure used to attain a high velocity... Which is what warrented the 30-03 over the 30-40 in the first place... ::) Bring in the 30 of 1906 and a 150g bullet...
I like the 220g bullet in one of my Springfield rifle's as it does shoot very well. But most of mine use a 180g bullet. If I need more I go bigger and if I need less I grab the 308...
CW
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They never changed the rifling so it's still twisted for the 220. The problem was excessive recoil. The troops didn't like the heavy bullet.
"In 1892 the Army switched from the .45-70 Trapdoor Springfield Rifle to the .30-40 Krag-Jorgensen and there was much rejoicing. The .30-40 Krag was load with a 220 grain jacketed lead round nose bullet fired at around 2000 fps. This bullet required a 1 in 10 inch twist to stabilize this built. During the Spanish-American War in 1898 the .30-40 Krag cartridge and Krag-Jorgensen Rifle that fired proved less effective the Spanish Mauser and 7mm Mauser that was used against them.
So, back to the drawing bored again and the 1903 Springfield Rifle and the .30-03 cartridge to fired from it were born. The .30-03 kept the 220 grain bullet (and the 1-10 twist) but increased the velocity to about 2100 fps. About this time every other country in the world was implementing lighter, faster spitzer type bullets that were more accurate at longer ranges.
Back to the drawing board again for the .30-06. A 150 Grain bullet traveling at 2750 FPS was decided upon. And the cartridge renamed .30-06 At the time all of the tooling and all of the machines used to make rifle barrels were set-up for the 1-10 twist. Since the testing was conducted in a relatively short period time and tooling was extremely expensive at the 1-10 twist was retained. In actuality, a 1-14 Twist barrel is sufficient to stabilize the 150 grain bullet at that velocity. While the 1-10 twist is over-stabilizing the 150 grain bullet, accuracy was still “good enough for government work” and delivered under the 3” at 100 yards requirement. Also, it is a thick Full-metal jacket bullet, so there was no fear of jacket failure due to excess RPM.
On the commercial front, as gun manufacturers started to produce rifles and ammunition for the .30-06, the used the 1-10 twist because they had the tooling and accuracy was sufficient. Also several manufacturers continued to load the 220 grain bullets for hunting large and dangerous game which requires the 1-10 twist. So, commercial manufacturers use the 1-10 twist in .30-06."
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The .30-06 shoots a 220 grain bullet quite nicely. That's the bullet it's twist was designed for.
When I was a kid the 220 grain round nose was "THE" bullet and everyone I knew used it for deer in the hardwoods.....
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Now Rem loads a 180 gr RN for the same reason. I don't have any of that ammo and I presume the bullet is fairly soft to open up.
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I had a custom Sako .30-06. I gave it to my Son-in-Law as a wedding present. That is why I don't own a .30-06. Being disabled I do not have much use for one.
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The "gift" of a good rifle to a loved one is the best reason so far.
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I own an M1 Garand.
If I had purchased the M1A that I wanted and could not afford at the time, but bought a Garand instead I would not own a 30-06. 308Win does everything that I would use a 30-06 for and if I need more than what the 308 gives I would simply grab either my 338 Win Mag, 375 H&H or one of the 45-70's
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I own a nice sporterized '03 30-06. I dont use it much and it always goes along as a second. I do have a new M70 classic featherweight inbound in 30-06, but it will be rebarreled.
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06 is probably one of the best if not the best overall cartridges ever made. I don't own one because there are too many other great rifle cartridges on both sides of it and every Tom, Dick and Harry has one so what's the fun in that. If I were held to one i would probably be the 06 though...
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06 is probably one of the best if not the best overall cartridges ever made. I don't own one because there are too many other great rifle cartridges on both sides of it and every Tom, Dick and Harry has one so what's the fun in that. If I were held to one i would probably be the 06 though...
Well put.
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Temps were tolerable today in upper teens, sun was out , this afternoon , read this thread earlier in the week and was thinking about it , so I got the bug and decided to take my '06 off the mantle where I retired it a few years ago and decided it was a good day to use up the final 3 green boxes of 150's and 165's I had.
This evening while cleaning my '06 reflecting on today I came to the realization I definitely made the right decision switching to my lighter more compact mod seven 7mm-08. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the nostalgia shooting my old '06, but I know I would have enjoyed the day that much more if I had been shooting my mod seven.
My old '06 is back above the mantle tonight. Probably be a while before I get the bug again to shoot it. maybe again sometime next year , or possible the year after.
Semper Fi
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Why don't I own a 30/06? Probably because I already own a .308.. ;)
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Why don't I own a 30/06? Probably because I already own a .308.
Well, as long as you're willing to settle. ;)
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I've got both ;D
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This debate has raged since since the creation of another caliber different than the first(not sure what size it was)' and is not going to end now. Besides we wouldn't have anything to argue over. What it boils down to is someone's preference. I tried to get away from a 30-06 and went to a 270 . The 270 is a little better at longer ranges , but it ain't an 06. So again nostalgia kicks in! Mtcw
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I don't own a 30-06 because I shoot Russian 06, the 7.62x54. So no real need for a 30-06.
Sent from my PB99400 using Tapatalk 2
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I don't own a 30-06 because I own 2!
They come to the range with me so I have something to shoot between shots with my muzzleloaders. My savage 110 circa 1986 will hopefully be my boys first deer rifle, and my tc icon accounted for 4 deer this year, yes 1 was a double.
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These numbers tell the story of why I shoot a .280 instead of a 30-06.....
Not that there's anything worng with a 30-06.....just sayin...
Ahhh yes..the old brush busting theory and if you have a heavy round nose bullet just shoot at it through cover...Sorry..couldn't help myself on that one :D :D
I've owned (2) 7-08's before and really never cared for the round. If I was going to go with a 7mm non magnum..it would be the one based on the 30-06 case...the 280, There isn't enough recoil difference to amount to much and the added case capacity is there if I want to reload to higher pressures. Not saying the 7-08 isn't a good deer round..or you couldn't take an Elk with it because it is and you can..but it is already maxed out and lags behind from the start as compared to the larger cartridge.
Mac
Would love to try a 280, but would probably never purchase one. Looking at Chuck Hawks recoil table for example : Note : I don't reload.
280 Rem. (140 at 3000) 8.0lb rifle 17.2 recoil energy 11.8 recoil velocity
30-06 (150 at 2910) 8.0lb rifle 17.6 recoil energy 11.9 recoil velocity
7MM-08 (140 at 2860) 8.0lb rifle 12.6 recoil energy 10.1 recoil velocity
Short Range Trajectory
280
Premier® AccuTip™ 140gr 0.1@50 0.6@100 zero@150 -1.8@200 -4.8@250 -9.2@300
30-06
Premier® AccuTip™ 150gr 0.1@50 0.7@100 zero@150 -2.0@200 -5.4@250 -10.3@300
7mm-08
Premier® AccuTip™ 140gr 0.2@50 0.7@100 zero@150 -2.0@200 -5.4@250 -10.3@300 (interesting same as 30-06 with less recoil)
Long Range Trajectory
.280
Premier® AccuTip™ 140gr 2.5@100 2.9@150 2.1@200 zero@250 -3.4@300 -14.8@400 -33.0@500
30-06
Premier® AccuTip™ 150gr 1.7@100 1.5@150 zero@200 -2.9@250 -7.4@300 -21.5@400 -43.7@500
7mm-08
Premier® AccuTip™ 140gr 1.7@100 1.5@150 zero@200 -2.9@250 -7.3@300 -21.1@400 -42.5@500
For an all round Deer cartridge in various terrain, I'll stick with the 7mm-08 (Since all my shots are well within 300 yards there is just not enough difference for me to consider a change) and the milder recoil from the 7mm-08 makes it a pleasure to shoot.
For larger critters I'd probably stick with an '06
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I will save forum space by not quoting the entire post above... But why when people compare rifles, they use different sized bullets... How about you go and find data for the 280 and 06 using the same bullet and weight. There will be an advantage to the smaller diameter bullet, but it won't be much.
Not only that, but the data is scewed in that in the long range data the 280 is zeroed at 250 and the 06 at 200.... I'd call that data apples to bushel baskets.
280 is a great rifle round but it's not that much better than an 06.
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I will save forum space by not quoting the entire post above... But why when people compare rifles, they use different sized bullets... How about you go and find data for the 280 and 06 using the same bullet and weight. There will be an advantage to the smaller diameter bullet, but it won't be much.
Not only that, but the data is scewed in that in the long range data the 280 is zeroed at 250 and the 06 at 200.... I'd call that data apples to bushel baskets.
280 is a great rifle round but it's not that much better than an 06.
WHY the same weight?? The same SD is what should be compared, then the same bullet construction!
DM
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Why the same weight? I guess it has to do with the energy factor not the trajectory.
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I will save forum space by not quoting the entire post above... But why when people compare rifles, they use different sized bullets... How about you go and find data for the 280 and 06 using the same bullet and weight. There will be an advantage to the smaller diameter bullet, but it won't be much.
Not only that, but the data is scewed in that in the long range data the 280 is zeroed at 250 and the 06 at 200.... I'd call that data apples to bushel baskets.
280 is a great rifle round but it's not that much better than an 06.
WHY the same weight?? The same SD is what should be compared, then the same bullet construction!
DM
Why the same weight? Really? That should be obvious. Then you can have a fair comparison of engergy, trajectory and velocity. Both calibers are in the same range, so why compare different bullets...
Ok how about at least the same zero range....
Now why SD???
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I just loaded 100 '06 with a Winchester case, Winchester primer, RL19 powder and a Sierra 220g bullet!!
Now loading another 100 with 180's! ::)
CW
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I will save forum space by not quoting the entire post above... But why when people compare rifles, they use different sized bullets... How about you go and find data for the 280 and 06 using the same bullet and weight. There will be an advantage to the smaller diameter bullet, but it won't be much.
Not only that, but the data is scewed in that in the long range data the 280 is zeroed at 250 and the 06 at 200.... I'd call that data apples to bushel baskets.
280 is a great rifle round but it's not that much better than an 06.
WHY the same weight?? The same SD is what should be compared, then the same bullet construction!
DM
Why the same weight? Really? That should be obvious. Then you can have a fair comparison of engergy, trajectory and velocity. Both calibers are in the same range, so why compare different bullets...
Ok how about at least the same zero range....
Now why SD???
If you understood what SD ment and does, you wouldn't be asking that question.
DM
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this year all three of my teenagers got new deer rifles, a mossberg a savage, and a remington, two boxes of 30-06 and a lesson in reloading each. i had a box of @500 sierra 150gr flat base spitsers and 3 pounds of imr 4895. in one afternoon we worked up loads shooting under 1.5" at 100yrds for everyone. btw it is the same load from the no 11 sierra manual.and the savage put up a nice 3/8 group! all three boys harvested their deer this year with their new 30-06s and rounds they loaded themselves. icant think of any better way to pass on the tradition of shooting hunting, and reloading than that. God bless the 30-06!
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I will save forum space by not quoting the entire post above... But why when people compare rifles, they use different sized bullets... How about you go and find data for the 280 and 06 using the same bullet and weight. There will be an advantage to the smaller diameter bullet, but it won't be much.
Not only that, but the data is scewed in that in the long range data the 280 is zeroed at 250 and the 06 at 200.... I'd call that data apples to bushel baskets.
280 is a great rifle round but it's not that much better than an 06.
WHY the same weight?? The same SD is what should be compared, then the same bullet construction!
DM
Why the same weight? Really? That should be obvious. Then you can have a fair comparison of engergy, trajectory and velocity. Both calibers are in the same range, so why compare different bullets...
Ok how about at least the same zero range....
Now why SD???
If you understood what SD ment and does, you wouldn't be asking that question.
DM
SD has an effect on penetration, not trajectory.....you mean BC? The chart bis comparing trajectories and recoil, not bullet selection for hunting.
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I will save forum space by not quoting the entire post above... But why when people compare rifles, they use different sized bullets... How about you go and find data for the 280 and 06 using the same bullet and weight. There will be an advantage to the smaller diameter bullet, but it won't be much.
Not only that, but the data is scewed in that in the long range data the 280 is zeroed at 250 and the 06 at 200.... I'd call that data apples to bushel baskets.
280 is a great rifle round but it's not that much better than an 06.
WHY the same weight?? The same SD is what should be compared, then the same bullet construction!
DM
Why the same weight? Really? That should be obvious. Then you can have a fair comparison of engergy, trajectory and velocity. Both calibers are in the same range, so why compare different bullets...
Ok how about at least the same zero range....
Now why SD???
If you understood what SD ment and does, you wouldn't be asking that question.
DM
SD has an effect on penetration, not trajectory.....you mean BC? The chart bis comparing trajectories and recoil, not bullet selection for hunting.
Yes, I know what sectional density means and I will ask again. Why would SD be your defining measuring stick?
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I will save forum space by not quoting the entire post above... But why when people compare rifles, they use different sized bullets... How about you go and find data for the 280 and 06 using the same bullet and weight. There will be an advantage to the smaller diameter bullet, but it won't be much.
Not only that, but the data is scewed in that in the long range data the 280 is zeroed at 250 and the 06 at 200.... I'd call that data apples to bushel baskets.
280 is a great rifle round but it's not that much better than an 06.
WHY the same weight?? The same SD is what should be compared, then the same bullet construction!
DM
Why the same weight? Really? That should be obvious. Then you can have a fair comparison of engergy, trajectory and velocity. Both calibers are in the same range, so why compare different bullets...
Ok how about at least the same zero range....
Now why SD???
If you understood what SD ment and does, you wouldn't be asking that question.
DM
SD has an effect on penetration, not trajectory.....you mean BC? The chart bis comparing trajectories and recoil, not bullet selection for hunting.
I misunderstood that we were ONLY worried about drop here... When i compare bullets i'm interested in bullet performance as in penetration too. I don't give a ratsazz about an inch or two this way or that, (drop) but i'm more concerned with what will happen when that bullets hits the animal. SO, to me (within reason) SD is more important that BC when compareing bullets of different calibers.
I have several 30-06's and pretty much have always had one around, BUT when i built my light weight mountain rifle (back before they were common) I build it chambered for 280 Rem.. For deer, i prefer it over the 30-06 because it STILL has more power/penetration than i need to kill any deer or blk. bear...
DM
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I understand your concern in regards to SD. However, as I observed, the chart being compared only includes bullet weight, drop and recoil with no respect to SD.
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I will save forum space by not quoting the entire post above... But why when people compare rifles, they use different sized bullets... How about you go and find data for the 280 and 06 using the same bullet and weight. There will be an advantage to the smaller diameter bullet, but it won't be much.
Not only that, but the data is scewed in that in the long range data the 280 is zeroed at 250 and the 06 at 200.... I'd call that data apples to bushel baskets.
280 is a great rifle round but it's not that much better than an 06.
WHY the same weight?? The same SD is what should be compared, then the same bullet construction!
DM
Why the same weight? Really? That should be obvious. Then you can have a fair comparison of engergy, trajectory and velocity. Both calibers are in the same range, so why compare different bullets...
Ok how about at least the same zero range....
Now why SD???
If you understood what SD ment and does, you wouldn't be asking that question.
DM
SD has an effect on penetration, not trajectory.....you mean BC? The chart bis comparing trajectories and recoil, not bullet selection for hunting.
I misunderstood that we were ONLY worried about drop here... When i compare bullets i'm interested in bullet performance as in penetration too. I don't give a ratsazz about an inch or two this way or that, (drop) but i'm more concerned with what will happen when that bullets hits the animal. SO, to me (within reason) SD is more important that BC when compareing bullets of different calibers.
I have several 30-06's and pretty much have always had one around, BUT when i built my light weight mountain rifle (back before they were common) I build it chambered for 280 Rem.. For deer, i prefer it over the 30-06 because it STILL has more power/penetration than i need to kill any deer or blk. bear...
DM
BC is a comparative statement anyway. There is no one caliber that is inherintly better than another in this respect. The same goes for SD. Different weights and designs of bullets will change these values. They are a comparison between the weight of the bullet and the dimensions of the bullet.
You can design any bullet to have just as good of a BC as another.
I actually agree that SD is more important than BC. With scope design and that whole math thing, any good shooter should know how to properly compensate for the drop of his bullet at range. Though a better BC will improve energy at range... it is usually not enough to make that big of a difference. But the higher the SD of a bullet, the better it will carry energy through an animal at a similar BC range as compared to other bullets.
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Sectional Denisty depends on the lenght of the bullet as part of the equation(I think) The moment the bullet strikes the target the shape will change unless it is a FMJ and so does the SD. The amount of change after impact has everything to do with construction and impact velocity.
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Sectional Denisty depends on the lenght of the bullet as part of the equation(I think) The moment the bullet strikes the target the shape will change unless it is a FMJ and so does the SD. The amount of change after impact has everything to do with construction and impact velocity.
No.....wt.(lbs.) /diameter(in.) squared.
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We're getting way off track here... All I suggested is that if you are going to compare two rifle calibers as close as the 06 and 280 are, why not use the same bullet and same weight as to give a better comparison. As well, zero them at the same range for heaven sakes... There are plenty of quality bullets out there that have a 7mm and a 30 caliber bullet from 150 to 180 grains to pick from.
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We're getting way off track here... All I suggested is that if you are going to compare two rifle calibers as close as the 06 and 280 are, why not use the same bullet and same weight as to give a better comparison. As well, zero them at the same range for heaven sakes... There are plenty of quality bullets out there that have a 7mm and a 30 caliber bullet from 150 to 180 grains to pick from.
That may compare the trajectory of the bullets, but not the rifles "killing" ability. I do agree that with the tables presented.....you should be comparing equal bullet wts.
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We're getting way off track here... All I suggested is that if you are going to compare two rifle calibers as close as the 06 and 280 are, why not use the same bullet and same weight as to give a better comparison. As well, zero them at the same range for heaven sakes... There are plenty of quality bullets out there that have a 7mm and a 30 caliber bullet from 150 to 180 grains to pick from.
That may compare the trajectory of the bullets, but not the rifles "killing" ability. I do agree that with the tables presented.....you should be comparing equal bullet wts.
I would say you would get a pretty good idea based on energy comparisons.
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You can design any bullet to have just as good of a BC as another.
For standard comparable calibers, this is probably a true statement, however, you can not get the same BC out of say a larger bullet such as a .45 (.45-70) as you can with say a 7mm bullet. It isn't physically possible without making the .45 ridiculously long and heavy and totally changing the case to be able to handle it.
BC and SD are somewhat related, a higher SD bullet is going to have a higher BC as it cuts through the wind better (more momentum with less wind resistance).
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We're getting way off track here... All I suggested is that if you are going to compare two rifle calibers as close as the 06 and 280 are, why not use the same bullet and same weight as to give a better comparison. As well, zero them at the same range for heaven sakes... There are plenty of quality bullets out there that have a 7mm and a 30 caliber bullet from 150 to 180 grains to pick from.
That may compare the trajectory of the bullets, but not the rifles "killing" ability. I do agree that with the tables presented.....you should be comparing equal bullet wts.
I think equal BC/SC of a bullet would be a better comparison, as you get a bullet better suited for the caliber in question.
Whenever I have researched a new rifle, the weight of the bullet was only used to compute the energy and trajectory at range for different calibers/cartridges. Using different weights of bullets to compute different energies and trajectories to compare is very helpful, and having the BC of those bullets helps to give you the best energy at range.
Along with those, equations that take in bullet weight and bullet diameter will give an idea of overall effectiveness such as Taylor KO value.
Energy only goes so far... high energy super fast light bullets hate penetration because they don't maintain momentum and expand energy into an animal too fast. This is where a bullet with higher SD and equal BC (higher weight and diameter) at the same energy will do better for penetration on game.
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Uhhhggg.... I give up...
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Hey buck, all we are saying is that if you make a bullet the same exact weight with a smaller diameter, it is going to have a higher ballistic coefficient and better ballistics, making it an unfair advantage.
Taking the larger caliber up to a larger bullet increases its BC making the long term energy and trajectory a more fair comparison.
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That's why smart hunters use the 180s in the .30-06.
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Swamp isn't there half a page of you talking about how the 220 was the bullet for the -06???
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I don't know......why?
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Why would it be smart to use a bullet 40 grains less than what it is designed for, according to you??? ;)
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Not according to me but according to history. Because it's heavy enough to be highly accurate and designed better for long range work than the 220. The 180s are perfect for everything.
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Rhinos?!??!?!?!?
hahahahaha
kidding. I actually agree that 180grains is a great weight for the -06. Personally I shoot 165's, but that is because I have a 338 should I want that little bit larger.
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When I switched from 165s to 180s my groups shrank to less than 1/2" at 100 yards. 180 grain Core-Lokts for deer and 180 grain Nosler Partitions for bigger stuff. Both my .30-06s love heavier bullets.
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Wow , 180's for Swamp deer? ... Heck that makes our large NE whitetails look like wimps being taken from 20 - 150 yards with just those itty bitty 150 core lokt's. Just havein Fun :)
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Why don't you own a 3006?
I've owned two and sold'em. I like my 3030 better.
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Swamp isn't there half a page of you talking about how the 220 was the bullet for the -06???
LMA0! Caught switchin horses AGAIN! :-[
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Why don't you own a 3006?
I've owned two and sold'em. I like my 3030 better.
I can see that in East TX, but not out in West TX and Southern NM.
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Swamp isn't there half a page of you talking about how the 220 was the bullet for the -06???
LMA0! Caught switchin horses AGAIN! :-[
No not again or now......dolt
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LOL!
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Troll ::) You never have anything to add.....ever
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Troll ::) You never have anything to add.....ever
Looking in the mirror, aren't you?? You always have something to add, it just that pretty much ALWAYS it isn't anything useful!!
DM
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It useful to those with some comprehension.
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Let's comprehend this, get on topic everybody.
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Deal.
Hey, I just took my old bushnell off my remmy -06 and threw a nikon 6-18 on there. I gotta tell you, with the trajectory of those 165grn barnes TTSX bullets, sure doesnt get me some nice groups at range.
It's amazing what a little extra scope power does my my groups.
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Because my .270 will do nicely handle anything needing shooting. In North America that is...
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Deal.
Hey, I just took my old bushnell off my remmy -06 and threw a nikon 6-18 on there. I gotta tell you, with the trajectory of those 165grn barnes TTSX bullets, sure doesnt get me some nice groups at range.
It's amazing what a little extra scope power does my my groups.
Being a 6x18 I guess it is a Buckmaster, they seem pretty dang good for the money.
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Definitely the best for the money I've owned. I had it on a 7mm RUM before I sold that rifle, did that caliber justice. I'm glad I put it on the -06 though. Glass is as good as any leupy, and even the monarch doesn't do a whole lot better.
The bushnell was a cheap 3-9, I was comfortable out to about 400 yards max with it. This scope has seen 800 yards so far, and I just invested in the 1k gong. :)
Bought the gong for my 338RUM that i stacked with a millet lrs6-25, but now that I have the optics on the -06..... why the hell not?? I'm gettin 1/2MOA with my barnes loads so my -06 is plenty accurate for that gong.
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OK, I did it. I bought an Ought 6. Found one at a Pawn shop, rem 700, BDL for $339. Shoots the tightest groups of ALL my rifles. 100 yards, under avg 3/4 inch group.
Since the cataract started forming I've been happy with 1 inch to 1.5 but this 30-06 shoots Suuuu-weet! Recoil is minimal and packs punch. Killed two Axis and a white tial buck this year. ONLY PROBLEM? I bought it for a re-barrel and it shoots to good to change. Dang! I got to buy another Rem 700
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OK, I did it. I bought an Ought 6. Found one at a Pawn shop, rem 700, BDL for $339. Shoots the tightest groups of ALL my rifles. 100 yards, under avg 3/4 inch group.
Since the cataract started forming I've been happy with 1 inch to 1.5 but this 30-06 shoots Suuuu-weet! Recoil is minimal and packs punch. Killed two Axis and a white tial buck this year. ONLY PROBLEM? I bought it for a re-barrel and it shoots to good to change. Dang! I got to buy another Rem 700
And so it goes! ;D
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OK, I did it. I bought an Ought 6. Found one at a Pawn shop, rem 700, BDL for $339. Shoots the tightest groups of ALL my rifles. 100 yards, under avg 3/4 inch group.
Since the cataract started forming I've been happy with 1 inch to 1.5 but this 30-06 shoots Suuuu-weet! Recoil is minimal and packs punch. Killed two Axis and a white tial buck this year. ONLY PROBLEM? I bought it for a re-barrel and it shoots to good to change. Dang! I got to buy another Rem 700
Oooooohhhh Darn. (Note sarcasm) ;)
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Hay Banzo, the older you get the better those power scopes get.