Graybeard Outdoors (GBO Reloaded)
H&R Talk => Misc H&R talk, Collectibles, Handguns etc => Topic started by: Hammerdown on November 18, 2011, 12:43:54 AM
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Hello
I recently picked up a Very Rare Bird. I was in one of our local guns shops and spotted a neat mauser action rifle and asked to see it. My suspicions were spot on, as it was Indeed a Rare H&R rifle Imported by Sako. It is wearing a very early Leupold 3-9 Power scope made prior to the Vari-X series of scopes that shows signs of it's age by the Plum color but the opticas are superb. These rifles were made in the early 1960's time span and sent to H&R The trigger and actions are made by Sako and the barrels were made by Douglas custom barrels. The stocks were Fagen and checkered at the H&R Factory by some in house older woman there. The Trigger assembly is fully adjstable for creep and pull and is stamped Made in Finland. There were very few of these made and in my 35 Plus years of gun shows from the East to West coast and after going though hundrededs of Gun shops I have only seen one other like this. This one is chambered in .308 Winchester and it is a pure tack driver as shown with the sight in Target I shot at the 100 Yard line yesterday with it. The final hits were Four in the Ten ring smaller than an actual dime using some Basic Federal Power shock factory ammo. I can't wait to start hand loading for this after seeing what it would do with just factory ammo. I will be taking it afield this weekend for our opener of Our Gun season for Deer...Regards, Hammerdown
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Nice find! When I was working part time at the old Morris Sporting Goods store in Great Falls, Mt., I'd see maybe a couple of these a year come through. Most of the time, they were sold while still being cleaned up, and I don't recall seeing the same gun twice. They, like a lot of really interesting guns, came from AF GI's who were stationed at Malmstrom.
Looking back through the fuzzy haze of a fractured memory, I don't recall seeing any with Sako actions for the .473 and H&H belted case rim sizes, all of 'em as I recall, like yours, used Belgian Fabrique Nationale actions, the same basis for the Browning Safari line, and a lot of the Husqvarna's. Seems like the little .222's and .223's had the little Sako, but I could be mistaken.
Didn't get a lot of reports back on how they shot, most guys were interested in how light they were, and at the time, about all that would compete with 'em in that category were the short barreled Remington 600 and 660's, some lever guns, and custom bolt guns. I can't imagine touching one of them off that were chambered to .300 Winchester Mag.....
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Yes, indeed. A rare find and also well preserved. Beautiful. A ;D little envy on my part.
Jim <")))><
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Nice find! When I was working part time at the old Morris Sporting Goods store in Great Falls, Mt., I'd see maybe a couple of these a year come through. Most of the time, they were sold while still being cleaned up, and I don't recall seeing the same gun twice. They, like a lot of really interesting guns, came from AF GI's who were stationed at Malmstrom.
Looking back through the fuzzy haze of a fractured memory, I don't recall seeing any with Sako actions for the .473 and H&H belted case rim sizes, all of 'em as I recall, like yours, used Belgian Fabrique Nationale actions, the same basis for the Browning Safari line, and a lot of the Husqvarna's. Seems like the little .222's and .223's had the little Sako, but I could be mistaken.
Didn't get a lot of reports back on how they shot, most guys were interested in how light they were, and at the time, about all that would compete with 'em in that category were the short barreled Remington 600 and 660's, some lever guns, and custom bolt guns. I can't imagine touching one of them off that were chambered to .300 Winchester Mag.....
Hello Darreld Walton
You are Partly correct here. Mine is the early version which had the Sako action. The second and last series of these offered by H&R had the Yugoslavian Zavasta Mauser actions and those guns did not have the wild looking Fagen stocks on them, they were more production looking in nature. I have a S&W Impoted Husqvarna with the HVA 1460 action that is much different than this as Husqvarna produced their own down sized Mauser style actions. I was contacted by the former sales Agent for H&R and below is what he shared with me about this rifle. Regards, Hammerdown
I worked for H&R during the mid 1960's time span & Your Ultra sounds like it was one of the rifles built on a Sako (Made in Finland - push feed) action. H&R bought the actions, used Fajen stocks (farmed out checkering to a couple of local ladies) and used custom Douglas pencil style barrels. I had a Sako Ultra Mannlicher-stocked 7 mm Remington Magnum on loan from the factory. Handsome gun if you like the extreme stock styling. Dumb chambering - gun was a 20" carbine. Loud as hell! Shortly before I started working for them, the deal with Sako for the actions fell through, and H&R started using the Yugoslavian Zavasta Mauser ( true '98 actions.) Your gun is far superior, at least as far as the action is concencerned. All these guns were virtually custom made at H&R, and total production of all Ultras was very low. They were built in small batches and usually sat in inventory until an order came in. Personally never cared for the styling of the wood, and in 1980 - I think - they came out with an additional "Classic" model. These guns didn't last long because H&R went belly up in the early 80's. Hope this is of some help.
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I agree with Darreld Walton,the rifle pictured is not a Sako.It is as he stated an FN Mauser.Re-read his post,accurate in all details.About the same time frame as this rifle was produced,Sears was using the same actions from FN in their J.C. Higgins bolt guns.As mentioned by Walton,the Safari grade Brownings used these FN actions too.
That doesn't take anything away from the fact that you have made an excellent find,it's just not a Sako.
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Great looking piece, what a terrific find.
The metal looks almost new and the wood other that the nicks and scratches is outstanding.
Thanks for sharing it with us.
Paul
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Hello
Last Month I came across a Rather Rare find. It is an H&R Ultra Rifle made in the Mid 1960's. These guns were a Mixed bag of custom creation and offered by H&R. They came with a FN Mauser Belgium action, Sako fully adjustable trigger, Fagen custom stock and a Douglas custom pencil sporter barrel. This one is chambered in .308 Winchester. It Left H&R around 1965 and has a very early Leupold 3-9 scope made prior to the Vari-X series that has Patent date's on it's eye relief. This is only the second one i have seen in 45 Years of gun shows and going through gun shops. I have been told that fewer than 1000 were made...Hammerdown
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HD that is one fine looking rifle. Would you mind posting this over at the H&R collectable forum. Not even going to ask what you paid for it as I would of bought it in a split second at about any price. Thanks for sharing Kurt
EDIT ??? ??? sorry forgot where I was already at. Had been on the Boltaction forum since starting on the coffeeeeeeee this morn.
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CW how bout one of these in .358 ooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh yea Kurt
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CW how bout one of these in .358 ooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh yea Kurt
That is a beautiful rifle! It would be a shame to rebore or rebarrel it, but I do like the .358............................... ;)
Thanks, Dinny
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Dinny blow that pic of the printed advertizer says .358 is factory along with 300win mag 7mm .243 30-06 sweet. Kurt
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Dinny blow that pic of the printed advertizer says .358 is factory along with 300win mag 7mm .243 30-06 sweet. Kurt
I saw that afterwards. Either way, I'll take it!! ;D
Thanks, Dinny
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Hi guys, I have one in 30-06 and it is really a great rifle. I never knew they only made about 1,000 of them. Mine is in excellent condition and has not been fired much....<><....:)
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I absolutely hate bolt action guns, but I love the stock on that H&R. Its a shame it has that ding in it. :(
The bluing is beautiful! Almost like a Colt Python. You dont see that kind of bluing anymore.
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Hi guys, I have one in 30-06 and it is really a great rifle. I never knew they only made about 1,000 of them. Mine is in excellent condition and has not been fired much....<><.... :)
Hello
There was actuallt Three Variations of this rifle. Mine is the first Variation with the FN Mauser 98 action and Sako Made in Finland adjustable trigger. The next variation had Yugoslavian Mauser actions and the last variation was built on the Sako L-146 actions. They were discontinued due to high Parts cost, that is why there was not many of them made, as H&R Only made the butt Pad's and crest stamps. They were all hand assembled at H&R when customer's ordered them in various calibers and the checkering was done by Two Older woman that worked at H&R. The stock's finish is urethane and after Hunting season I will strip mine and refinish it removing the minor nicks and bruises...
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CW how bout one of these in .358 ooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh yea Kurt
YEA BABY!!!
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Thanks for that info Hammerdown. I'll check mine and post what it is in a little while. I had arthroscopic surgury on my knee on the 23rd and it's not as painless as they say. I have to get down to the cellar to the guncase and check it. I do think mine is a FN Mauser action (Belgium) as well....Andy....<><.... :)
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Hello again, I got downstairs (and up again!!). My Ultra is indeed a Belgium made FN action. I forgot the last time I looked at it. I have the barreled action in a camo synthetic stock and the fancy wooden stock put away to preserve it. It is actually a little to fancy smancy for me, what with the contrasting nose cap and the rolled over cheekpiece and all. The checkering is finely done as I recall. I have a barrel band front sling swivel attachmnet on it but otherwies it is original and in excellent condition. I have a scope on it at this time....<><....:)
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I have the same rifle in 30-06, same styled wood although it now wears a camo synthetic stock and the fancy wood is stored away to keep it safe. Mine also has the FN action. I have had this rifle for probably over 30-35 years now and have not shot it much, not at all in at least 20 years at least. The metal is still in great shape and the bluing is a fine high polished finish. They are GREAT rifles and seem to be few and far between here in New England, in fact I have never seen another one other than the great .308 in this post .
IIRC I bought my FN action H&R sometime after 1972 to replace a pre '64 Winchester Model 70 in 30-06 that I sold to come up with some cash I needed for a down payment on my house (that in itself is a good story). I was looking for another 30-06 bolt gun a couple of years later when the H&R showed up. I was not to sure about the fancy stylized stock but the FN Mauser action and fine craftsmanship and finish work sold me on the gun....<><.... :)
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I have the same rifle in 30-06, same styled wood although it now wears a black synthetic stock and the fancy wood is stored away to keep it safe. Mine also has the FN action. I have had this rifle for probably over 30-35 years now and have not shot it much, not at all in at least 20 years at least. The metal is still in great shape and the bluing is a fine high polished finish. They are GREAT rifles and seem to be few and far between here in New England, in fact I have never seen another one other than the great .308 in this post .
IIRC I bought my FN action H&R sometime after 1972 to replace a pre '64 Winchester Model 70 in 30-06 that I sold to come up with some cash I needed for a down payment on my house (that in itself is a good story). I was looking for another 30-06 bolt gun a couple of years later when the H&R showed up. I was not to sure about the fancy stylized stock but the FN Mauser action and fine craftsmanship and finish work sold me on the gun....<><.... :)
Hello MSP Ret
Great to know there is another one of these still around. Mine is a Pure Tackdriver and I now have the trigger adjusted down from 6 Pounds to a smooth 1-1/2 Pounds with Zero Creep due to it's Made in Finland Sako Trigger that it has. This rifle can be very confusing During the time when H&R offered these they had Three different variations. Our's is of the first Generation of these rifles with the FN Mauser 98 action made in Belgium. They next used Yugoslavian 98 Mauser style actions then they jumped ship completely with the Third Variation ones that were Sako Built L-146 Control feed style actions which ended the Era of these due to high Import cost's. I feel Our's is of the best ones due to their supreme FN actions Mated to Sako's trigger and Floor plate. I don't know about yours but my bolt feels like it is on Ball Bearings when you cycle it. It is also Well Polished as I suspect FN wanted the very best out there as far as their actions went. The Stocks are Just Plain wild being a Fagen custom design with super nice grain definition and the foregrip and pistol grip cap wood differs from The High Grade Walnut used in the rest of the stock as it is Ganacalo-Alves the very same high grain definition wood used in S&W Hand gun grips from the Mid 1950's time span up till S&W ceased making their own wood stocks in the early 1990's time span. I am sure one would be hard Pressed to own a better rifle with the Mass Produced stamped Out Junk we are seeing these day's made in the U.S.A. it gave me all the more reason to buy this classic rifle.... Hammerdown
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I agree hammerdown, the action on mine cycles as smooth as glass as well. For years I always referred to the stock style as "Weatherby" like with the stylized, sweeping, and futuristic look to it. The contrasting forend cap with the angled area where it joins the rest of the stock is very finely done and unusual as well. It is nice to meet another happy and proud owner of one of these early and original H&R Ultra Rifles. Perhaps there may be more owners out there that may hopefully respond....<><....:)
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Regardless who made the action and barrel, it is one handsome looking rifle. Best of luck with it.
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I recently acquired one of these rifles. It was my dads hunting rifle - he said he bought it around 1967. Mine has the FN action and is chambered in 243 Win. It had been sitting in a gun cabinet for as long as I can remember going back to when I was a kid - I have always loved that rifle. I have not shot it yet though - got it home and cleaned it up. I'd like to get a nice scope for it; he had an old low power Weaver on it that isn't really usable so I"m looking around to see what I want to put on it. Hard to find much info on them but anything I could find had nothing but good things to say about them.
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I recently acquired one of these rifles. It was my dads hunting rifle - he said he bought it around 1967. Mine has the FN action and is chambered in 243 Win. It had been sitting in a gun cabinet for as long as I can remember going back to when I was a kid - I have always loved that rifle. I have not shot it yet though - got it home and cleaned it up. I'd like to get a nice scope for it; he had an old low power Weaver on it that isn't really usable so I"m looking around to see what I want to put on it. Hard to find much info on them but anything I could find had nothing but good things to say about them.
Hello Roy72
The reason there is not much on them as there are not many of them out there. H&R did not offer them very long and the higher prices of the part's involved in making them forced the company to cease offering them. I recently found and original H&R catalog from 1967 that shows this rifle and the Model 301 which was in Manlicher form. Now, I am hunting one of those and hope to find one as these are premium grade rifles are much worth the search of finding them... Hammerdown
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Hammerdown,
I"m going to pick up the '67 catalog too. I have to say, IMO this is the nicest gun I've ever shouldered (have it shot it yet though) and my dad says it was a tack driver too. I"m thrilled to have it and I can tell by your posts here and elsewhere that you are very pleased with yours. I've enjoyed reading your posts and look forward to more from you and around the community. The only flaw on mine is that the floorplate release button is missing and I can't find a replacement - I'll keep looking though. I will never sell this so I don't care what it diminishes for value but I'd like to have it if I can get one. I"m new to this forum so when I can figure out how to post a pic I'll post one...
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Hammerdown,
I"m going to pick up the '67 catalog too. I have to say, IMO this is the nicest gun I've ever shouldered (have it shot it yet though) and my dad says it was a tack driver too. I"m thrilled to have it and I can tell by your posts here and elsewhere that you are very pleased with yours. I've enjoyed reading your posts and look forward to more from you and around the community. The only flaw on mine is that the floorplate release button is missing and I can't find a replacement - I'll keep looking though. I will never sell this so I don't care what it diminishes for value but I'd like to have it if I can get one. I"m new to this forum so when I can figure out how to post a pic I'll post one...
Hello Roy72
I found my Best bargain on the Harrington & Richardson Gun Catalog by going through Gunbroker.com. The Ones of Flea-Bay were Far too expensive. I got mine for $9.45 shipped to my Door. Perhaps a Good gun smith could make you a new floor plate release button I do know that the floor Plate and Trigger were made by Sako when you are searching for Parts for it... I hope this helps, Hammerdown
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That's a beautiful rifle. :) I wish H&R would put that much effort into their current stuff.
Spanky
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Taken from H&R company literature and catalogues:
1965 - 1972 Mauser type action from FN - Belgium
1973 - 1977 Sako actions from Finland
1978 - 1983 Mauser type Mark X action from Zastava Yugoslavia.
One exception - the Model 317 and 317P (1968 - 1974) had Sako actions, exclusively.
H&R Arms Co./H&R Inc. was dissolved in February of 1986.
Do you know what model number you have? Serial number will help to date it.
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That's a beautiful rifle. :) I wish H&R would put that much effort into their current stuff.
Spanky
Ahem, there is more fitting, precise machining, and care put into the trigger on the rifle than an entire Handi, which is why that trigger would cost more than a new Handi!
Never been a fan of the Fajen stock, but they used good Walnut, and the checkering on that gun is pretty tasteful. You have a nice rifle that you could not buy for $3,000 today.
How many Handi's does that work out to be? ^:-/
I think she may have had a reblue somewhere back in time.
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Posted by: RIF « on: Today at 01:28:03 AM Never been a fan of the Fajen stock, but they used good Walnut, and the checkering on that gun is pretty tasteful. You have a nice rifle that you could not buy for $3,000 today. I think she may have had a reblue somewhere back in time.
Hello
Back when these were made Fagen and Bishop were the two leading stock maker's for after Market stocks. I have a Remington Model 788 with a Bishop stock that is shown below I like both stocks but the Fagen has more bell's and Whistles compared to my Bishop stock. The Remington Model 788's came with a standard walnut stock that at best looked like a Fence post, and it was too bad as these rifles were deadly accurate and deserved a much better stock when they were new. The H&R Has Not been reblued I did get the orignal owner's name and he shared with me he bought it brand new and it has not been touched since he got it directly from H&R back in 1967. The FN crest stamp is a little weak and we both speculate that who ever polished it prior to it's bluing when it was made at the factory got a little happy with their Polishing process making the FN stamp appear a little weak before it was factory blued....
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Taken from H&R company literature and catalogues:
1965 - 1972 Mauser type action from FN - Belgium
1973 - 1977 Sako actions from Finland
1978 - 1983 Mauser type Mark X action from Zastava Yugoslavia.
One exception - the Model 317 and 317P (1968 - 1974) had Sako actions, exclusively.
H&R Arms Co./H&R Inc. was dissolved in February of 1986.
Do you know what model number you have? Serial number will help to date it.
Hello 32 Magnum
You are correct here in what actions were used by H&R for this rifle. The Sako actions were Control Fed L-461 style actions. My gun was made in 1965 I have all ready determined this. The Model number of mine is a model 300 and it sold for $205.00 Retail in 1967. The ones with a full wood Mannlicher stock's were called number 301's and they sold for $225.00 retail price in 1967. They did Make an economy Version rifle with the Mauser actions. It was in a Traditional standard style walnut stock and called the Model 330. It sold for $144.50 Retail back in 1967. They made a semi auto version with the Fagen stock and it was called the Model 360. It came only in .243 Win. and .308 Win. Calibers and it sold for $179.00 Retail price in 1967 as well
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Hammerdown, I do not believe your H&R Ultra Rifle has been repolished and reblued. I have had mine for many years and the blueing is a fine shiny, smooth, and deep blue just as yours is. Also, the FN Trademark on the receiver is lighter than the words that follow "ACTION - MADE IN BELGIUM", it is in fact, identical to yours. These fine rifles had a lot of time, craftsmanship, and handwork lavished on them. I do believe your metalwork as depicted is all original and as it left the factory. The quailty of work they exhibit is exceptional and hard to come by these days. ...<><....:)
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IMO these H&Rs are fully the equal of the Browning boltaction rifles that were made in Belgium. I wouldn't do anything to it.
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Hammerdown, I do not believe your H&R Ultra Rifle has been repolished and reblued. I have had mine for many years and the blueing is a fine shiny, smooth, and deep blue just as yours is. Also, the FN Trademark on the receiver is lighter than the words that follow "ACTION - MADE IN BELGIUM", it is in fact, identical to yours. These fine rifles had a lot of time, craftsmanship, and handwork lavished on them. I do believe your metalwork as depicted is all original and as it left the factory. The quailty of work they exhibit is exceptional and hard to come by these days. ...<><.... :)
Hello MSP Ret
I don't think you could buy a new rifle with this kind of quality today... The New Generation of shooter's today do not know what used to be offered for those of us with discriminating Taste's. That said, I do have one other rifle that comes close to this one as far as high quality goes, and that would be my Husqvarna. In the late 1960's S&W sold these under their name and later they were replaced with the much cheaper Howa rifles made in Japan. :-[ This one is in 30-06 and is wearing a period correct Redfield Wide view scope of 3-9 Power....These rifles have a down sized Mauser 98 action that was made in House by Husqvarna of Sweeden.....
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Taken from H&R company literature and catalogues:
1965 - 1972 Mauser type action from FN - Belgium
1973 - 1977 Sako actions from Finland
1978 - 1983 Mauser type Mark X action from Zastava Yugoslavia.
One exception - the Model 317 and 317P (1968 - 1974) had Sako actions, exclusively.
H&R Arms Co./H&R Inc. was dissolved in February of 1986.
Do you know what model number you have? Serial number will help to date it.
Regarding the serial number, my H&R Ultra Rifle has an FN Mauser action and has serial number 512XX, I believe it to be a 1965 model. Does my serial number confirm it is a 1965 model?...Thanks....<><....:)
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Hammerdown,
You make a good point; I am by no means an expert and I mean no disrespect but in my opinion I just don't see the same quality or feel when I compare this to newer bolt-actions. I was at a gun show this weekend and looked at many, many bolt actions, old and new and there's just something about this H&R that feels different - it really is something special. This is a great thread by the way; I'm new to the appreciation of firearms and I've been obsessed with learning more about this H&R since I got it.
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There is a nice Mannlicher 7mm on an auction site now; starting bid is $1050 - what a beauty
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New boltguns tend to be much more accurate than the older ones. Out of the box MOA accuracy was until recently pretty rare.
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I seem to remember reading about those being the basis of a .17 Mach lV by the O'Brien rifle company in the sixties. Does that sound familiar to anyone or has my mind wondered off the reservation again?
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tobster,
The model 300 Ultrarifles preceded the O'Brien Rifle Co. purchase by H&R in 1968. These used the Sako L461 Vixen actions exclusively.
Sprint
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I found one in 7mm Mag. at a gun show yesterday. FN action, exactly like the OPs pic. The rifle was pristine, in new in the box condition. Deep, rich bluing and not a scratch or ding anywhere. Beautiful bright bore. If it were .308 or perhaps another non-magnum caliber, it would have come home with me. I agree with MSP Ret, it's a little too fancy to beat around in the bush with. The dealer wanted 585 firm, and I don't think that was bad at all.
Pete
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Good find Pete, just the fact that you got to see one "in the flesh" is an accomplisment. And that $585 was a GREAT price, although I agree the the 7mm Mag chambering was a bit of a deal breaker as well, a standard chambering would heve been much more desireable to me also, however 7mm's are fine rifles. As far as the stock goes there is always the possibility of placing the fancy walnut stock in storage and replacing it temporarily with a synthetic as I have elected to do with my H&R Ultra (30-06). I would have to think long and hard about turning down that fine rifle for that price, caliber notwithstanding. You would not be able to duplicate the quality and workmanship in that rifle today for at least $1500 to $2000 (you could always load it down to 7x57 or .280 Remington equivilant loads)....<><.... :)
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Darn it Pete, now you got me thinking, and we all know that can be a bad thing. I have to rush off to church right now but if you could would you please PM me the info on the dealer that had that rifle. Or, if you don't have the info could you let me know how to get it or perhaps locate it for me?...Thanks buddy...and have a happy Super Bowl Sunday....<><....:)
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Andy, PM sent. I tossed and turned last night wondering if I should have bought it for an investment, but I'm holding out for a Marlin 1894CL in .32-20.
It's funny, I was scouting the tables looking for a .35 Rem for cwlongshot, other Handis, and the .32-20, barely glancing at the bolt guns. My buddy said "Hey Pete, look at that. An H&R bolt action". I did find a .30-06 Handi NH serial in plain but fine condition for 175, but I left that one there too.
Pete
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I bet Petemi's gonna have non-buyers remorse. It's funny how those "ones that got away" can come back and haunt a person for years to come.
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Thank you Andy for maybe snaching that . I was sittin here going crazy as I finally found and was able to secure a 41mag Revolver that I have been trying to get for about three yrs trying to get this one also would put a strain on the guns budget I have not had for a while be sure to post pictures if you get it. kurt
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I bet Petemi's gonna have non-buyers remorse. It's funny how those "ones that got away" can come back and haunt a person for years to come.
Hello
I Pased on One Too and that Mistake cost me a 25 Year Hunt for the one I have now chambered in .308 Winchester caliber. Make No Mistake these do Not come often, and I will not Pass on any other's if they are in anything other than the .308 Wichester round like I all ready have.... Hammerdown
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New boltguns tend to be much more accurate than the older ones. Out of the box MOA accuracy was until recently pretty rare.
Hello
I don't know what Guns you have fired, or owned in the past that suffered from accuracy, but the ones I have are all Tack drivers and are all from the Mid 1960's time span. Of course the ones I speak of in my collection are Ithaca's made by Tika, Sako's from Finland, Husqvarna's of Sweeden, and now my H&R, which has a Belgium action mated with a fully adjustable Sako trigger and Douglas Barrel. I would Put any of my European Made rifles up against any of these Current cookie cutter stamped out wonder's they are offering these days in the United States. Savage does not have the Market cornered with their accu trigger as most of mine have Higher quality fully adjustable triggers that came in them when they were made new, and Not Bragged about like Savage uses their adjustable trigger to market their guns. Companies like Canjar, Rifle Basix and Jewell have made ton's of money off guys that bought american Made guns that suffered from sub standard triggers. I choose to Put my money into the Older European rifles due to their supreme accuracy and high quality.
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It's only been the last 15 years or so that sub-MOA out of the box became the norm for production rifles. The rifles you mentioned pretty much suffer from a Mauser type action which prevents best accuracy. I wouldn't own a Savage BTW. Remington triggers have always been good and adjustable. I do appreciate older European rifle quality and they are accurate enough for big game hunting.
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The rifles you mentioned pretty much suffer from a Mauser type action which prevents best accuracy. I wouldn't own a Savage BTW. Remington triggers have always been good and adjustable.
Hello Swampman
Sorry but I have to disagree with you as The Mauser action is the strongest action ever made bar none. It will take more pressure than any action out there including the Remington 700's. I have had many 700's in the past that do not hold a candle to my European rifles as far quality or accuracy goes but I do have a Remington model 788 that comes mighty close, but we all know they quit making them. The reason Remington ceased the making of the 788's is because guy's were buying them instead of the higher price Model 700's. Even the Remington Factory shooting Team was using the 788's due to their fine accuracy & They have a 60 Degree bolt lock up which mean's faster lock up times, for timed event's. There only draw back's is the soldered on bolt's that can break off if cycled too fast or hard, and the cheaply made stamped out trigger assemblies that are not adjustable but are safer than the Model 700's that have earned the reputation of Unintended discharge's. I have found that a rifle's Barrel is the Key to Tack driver accuracy, not the actions the bullets flight and P.O.I. is all dependent on the rifling tollerances of the barrel they are shot out of. My newest addition being this H&R that has a Douglas Barrel Made here in the United States. It is an air gap style barrel and Deadly accurate. Douglas Throws away barrel's that other United states manufacturer's would use on their Gun's that do not measure up to Douglas's standards for supreme accuracy. I will agree that some Mauser actioned rifles have gotten some bad reports, but those were used in Military style rifles due to lower grade barrels screwed into them, but as far as Sako, Ithaca which was made by Tika of Finland, and Husqvarna in my case I have not Owned one that does not drive Tacks with my hand loads in it, I do not shoot Factory ammo I find what work's in my rifles and stick with it....The new Generation Remington's are a Joke as far as quality goes, I wouldn't waste my time even looking at any them. They also took over Marlin Arms and the New Generation 336 rifles are lousy as far as fit, finish or performance goes. Try cycling one of the new model 336's some time their Crude Machine work that they Leave the factory with makes them feel like they bind when cycled, and the trigger pull is Horrendous, to me Remington ruined a Good time honored Proven rifle when they started making them & To me that is not Company pride in workmanship it is just a way to see how many they can get out the door, and that is not what I want to Own or shoot...My Hunting Buddy has 25 Remington rifles in his collection and when he joined me recently I let him shoot this H&R. He Hated to admit it, But after 20 Rounds down the barrel of it, he was sold on the guns supreme accuracy. I knew what he was attempting to do, as he ran pretty close together with the shots he fired out of it and the barrel got hot, he expected it to walk the shots across the Target from having a hot barrel but it shot every bit as good hot as it did with the first Three out of the stone cold barrel. He now has asked me to look for one for him to add to his gun safe, and was very Humble on the ride home from the Range that day, not bragging so hard about his Vintage Remington 700's. Winchester used to have a good reputation as far as Rifle's went, at least in their Pre-1964 Guns, but the later ones they produced were not what the old ones were as I had one of their Early 1980's Feather Light bolt action rifles that would not print good groups and I spent much on bedding it to only Very slightly improve it's accuracy, as it still would not print a dime size group at 100 yard's like my European rifles can and will do. I have pretty much given up on any guns made here in The United States of late Manufacture as they do not measure up, & I would rather spend my Hard earned money on high quality European rifles that are held to a higher standard and Perform better for me...It's Ok to admire Gun's made here in The United States, I just Prefer the European rifles when it comes down to my Personal target or hunting choice. Perhap's some of the other's in this Thread that Own these fine made H&R rifles will chime in and share with us what their rifles group like ? I did fire some Cheap Basic Federal High shock $12.00 a Box ammo through my gun when I first got it as I needed some brass to hand load for it and it shot amazinly tight groups with it, but As I said, I do Not shoot Factory ammo perhap's the other's that own these rifles do fire factory higher priced amo in their's and I myself would like to hear how these guns do with higher grade fSupreme actory ammo ?
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The Remington 700 will hold 2-3+ times the pressures that any Mauser action will and it doesn't flex like a Mauser so you get much better accuracy. The Remington 700 will go off when you pull the trigger and many idiots do that with it pointed in the wrong direction. Being hamstrung with a Mauser action is acceptable for big game hunting but you'll never see one at a bench rest match because they just aren't that accurate. I like Mausers but then again I like antique designs, and I'm willing to suffer with their failings. I really like Falling Blocks and Rolling Blocks. If accuracy is your goal then you'll need a push feed boltaction. You'll also need a gun built using CNC machinery to get the tolerances required. In the 1950s it was almost unheard of to get a rifle that would shoot MOA or better. The Model 700 changed all that.
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Hey guys, I just found this thread. I have an H&R Model 301 in 243, Manlicher stock and 18" Douglas barrel, it has a Leupold 6X heavy crosshair scope. Jack always call this a Mauser Supreme action. My ol hunting buddy bought this gun new, Jack has passed on now but if I remember correctly he told me he bought this gun in the late 70's or early 80's. This gun has killed more WV whitetails than a pickup truck could carry. I worked with Jack for 15 years and he let me use this gun to deer hunt with, I traded Jack out of it about 7 years ago, and I lost my best huntin buddy in June of 2010. I'm sorry I'm not very computer savy I'd post a pic, but if one of you all will PM me with your email address I can do that. Thanks for this post it brings back lots of good memories for me and good hunts with my best buddy. :'(
Joe
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Hey guys, I just found this thread. I have an H&R Model 301 in 243, Manlicher stock and 18" Douglas barrel, it has a Leupold 6X heavy crosshair scope. Jack always call this a Mauser Supreme action. My ol hunting buddy bought this gun new, Jack has passed on now but if I remember correctly he told me he bought this gun in the late 70's or early 80's. This gun has killed more WV whitetails than a pickup truck could carry. I worked with Jack for 15 years and he let me use this gun to deer hunt with, I traded Jack out of it about 7 years ago, and I lost my best huntin buddy in June of 2010. I'm sorry I'm not very computer savy I'd post a pic, but if one of you all will PM me with your email address I can do that. Thanks for this post it brings back lots of good memories for me and good hunts with my best buddy. :'(
Joe
Good story! You can email it to me I will post here for you.
cwlongshot@att.net
CW
Here is the only pic that I was able to open...
I replied and requested pics be sent again but got no answers...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/IMG00123.jpg)
CW
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Looking forward to seeing the picture and thanks for the great story. They just don't make fine quality guns like that anymore, unless you get a custom made, hand assembled rifle for a lot of money. The mass produced rifles spit out by assembly lines these days will never feel the same or be as good as these fine old QUALITY guns....Congratulations on your rifle and sorry for the loss of your friend....<><....:)
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Well guys, I finally got up to my FFL and picked up the 7mm Rem Mag. When I spoke to my FFL over the phone he went on and on about what a great rifle it was and that he thought it was new. When I told him it possibly dated back to the 1960's he could not believe it. He told me it looked as it had never been fired. I picked it up and the markings on this one are different than the markings on my 30-06 H&R "Ultra Rifle". The action is not marked FN and may be a Sako, I will check the marks with my books when I get home from work today. Also on the barrel it says Model 300. The finish is a finely polished high gloss blue and the action feels like glass, it even has a good trigger but these have adjustable Sako triggers so how it is set now does not really matter. The stock is a wonderful handcheckered piece of Walnut with the sculptered design with a roll over Monte Carlo cheekpiece and the fancy contrasting wooden nosecap and gripcap. All in all a beautiful rifle. Now to start putting in for a Moose permit in Maine.
Hey wvjotc, how about posting some pictures of the fine Mannlicher example you have? I for one, and I'm sure others, would like to see them....<><.... :)
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To petemi, PHATINJUN, and all the other guys lusting after a standard caliber H&R Model 300. I just found this, a H&R Model 300 in 30-06. Description states receiver and barrel are Belgium made by FN, Fajen stock, late 70's production. Looks like a decent buy.
See link, someone do me a favor and buy it. I just spent some big money on another gun. The wife will kill me if I buy another one so soon. I only ask whomever purchases it to post some nice photos on this link.
http://www.gunsamerica.com//978466588/Guns/Rifles/Harrington-Richardson-Rifles/H_R_MODEL_300_30_06_CALIBER.htm?wl=1
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A great rifle, however I do think the description is in error in a couple of minir points. Most actions were made by FN (some by Sako) and I believe the barrels were by Douglas..all in all a GREAT rifle. Also IIRC they started production of the first type in the 60's. I have read that there were under 1,000 rifles produced....<><....:)
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Hey CW,
Thanks for posting the pics for me, I've had some computer issues at home and been on the road and haven't been at my work computer. I'm sorry I haven't been able to get back to your, hopefuly this week I can get my home computer fixed. Also guys I'm sorry for the Blackberry pics they are not that clear. Thanks again buddy,
Joe
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What makes it rare?
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Hey CW,
Thanks for posting the pics for me, I've had some computer issues at home and been on the road and haven't been at my work computer. I'm sorry I haven't been able to get back to your, hopefuly this week I can get my home computer fixed. Also guys I'm sorry for the Blackberry pics they are not that clear. Thanks again buddy,
Joe
You are quite welcome!
When you get things fixed, send pics again I'll host and post them for you!
CW
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What makes it rare?
They are not Remingtons so you most likely would not like them. There were reportedly under 1,000 produced. Each one was hand fitted and hand polished to a fine deep high gloss blue. All had premium Douglas barrels, top of the line hand checkered Fajen walnut stocks with contrasting wooden grip caps and forend tips. The hand checkering was done by two women who lived locally to the factory. They have hand fitted and polished actions that cycle like glass and have excellent adjustable triggers. A lot of hand fitting, pride and precision went into each rifle....<><.... :)
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A custom rifle produced in the factory and low production count, sounds pretty rare to me. I guess if it were a Winchester, Remington, S&W or Case XX it would make a difference in being rare. I think sometimes we make to much out of a name and don't look a little closer to the quality of a custom product. I'm not saying these other products are not good, but put the same tag on these others 1 of 1000 and see the difference.
Joe
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What makes it rare?
They are not Remingtons so you most likely would not like them. There were reportedly under 1,000 produced. Each one was hand fitted and hand polished to a fine deep high gloss blue. All had premium Douglas barrels, top of the line hand checkered Fajen walnut stocks with contrasting wooden grip caps and forend tips. The hand checkering was done by two women who lived locally to the factory. The had fitted and polished actions that cycle like glass and they have excellent adjustable triggers. A lot of hand fitting, pride and precision went into each rifle....<><.... :)
Hello MSPRet
Nice summary of these fine Crafted hand made rifles. I have had Many Remingtons in the past, and still have a Model 788 that is a Tack driver, but they do not match the high quality of these H&R rifles. I have hand Loaded for my rifles and hand guns for years but this Gun is Far more rewarding to load for as it produces a one hole group. There was some Babble about the Mauser actions not being as strong as the Remington 700's but I sure am not seeing it and I have shot some pretty hot hand loads out of mine. ;) Don't get me wrong Remington "Used" to make some fine guns but they can not begin to compare to the quality of these H&R rifles. ::) The polishing alone on the actions of these H&R's more than Likely takes more time than the complete build of any Remington, and it show's when it is cycled..... ;) If they still made these H&R rifles today we probably would not want to pay what they would have to get for one due to all of the extra Pain staking Labor placed in one...
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I appreciate antique firearms, but when hunting I want an accurate rifle. Looks like H&R just assembled the parts they bought from other companies, or just put their name on a rifle built overseas. Clearly they sell or more would have been imported.
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Uh...OK...I guess.... :o ::) ....<><....?
I accept your opinion as just that, your opinion. I guess I could take out my Remington Model 700 BDL in .308 instead of the finely crafted H&R Ultra rifle. Of course the Remington is just a mass produced rifle and not half the quality or craftsmanship of the H&R Ultra. In fact I may do that, someday I may take the Model 700 out in the woods with me. The Model 700 is actually an excellent hunting and bang around gun, nothing special really, just another mass produced rifle off the production line, what is lacks in crafstmanship and quality it makes up availibility and popularity. I have Model 700 because I think it is a fine rifle, just not on the par of the H&R Ultra Rifle in quality, craftsmanship, fit, finish, and value/worth. Similar to driving a Ford or a Ferrari.....<><.... ;)
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No way a "handcrafted" rifle will be as accurate as one made on CNC machinery. The Model 700 killed all these guns off because it was less expensive, very attractive, and much much more accurate. They are an interesting piece of history though. thanks for posting.
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No way a "handcrafted" rifle will be as accurate as one made on CNC machinery. The Model 700 killed all these guns off because it was less expensive, very attractive, and much much more accurate. They are an interesting piece of history though. thanks for posting.
Hello Swampman
I take it from your comments that you have Never owned and H&R rifle ? If this is True how can you make a Judgment of them, or begin to compare them to a mass produced rifle ? I and MSP Ret have owned Remington's and both of us still do, therefore we can make a Logical conclusion or assessments of the Two very different rifles & Their Features. The Remington rifles are Mass Produced gun's with Mass Produced actions, Trigger's and barrels. They have no Fine Tune adjustable trigger's like the H&R has if you want that you have to replace the factory grade Remington rifle trigger with a Timney or CanJar adjustable style trigger, it will cost you about a Hundred Bucks, whereas the H&R comes with a totally adjustable Sako Match grade trigger all ready in it. The Bluing is Far More superior on the H&R rifle compared to any Remington 700 No Matter what generation of 700 we are speaking of they simply cannot compare, and the hand Polished actions in the H&R make the operation of them as smooth as Butter, something you won't see or feel in any Remington 700 rifle.
I Guess if your happy with a Cookie Cutter style Mass Produced cheaper to Purchase gun, then so be it, but I prefer to own a more elaborate Hand Crafted rifle to hunt and shoot Targets with. My Remington now sits Far Back in the safe Gathering Dust since I now have an H&R. The Douglas Air Gap Barrel is Far superior over the Remington 700 Barrels Douglas is well known for Match grade quality, and they claim the rejects out of their Plant are closer in tolerance & Spec. than any Mass produced barrel no matter who we are speaking of being the maker of such Barrels. To Appreciate the High quality of an H&R Rifle one must "First Own One" and secondly shoot it. I am Now looking hard for another since I have bought this one it has awoke a sleeping Giant in me to Realize and feel the difference in high quality, that simply cannot be had here or that has been Made in the U.S.A.....
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I've owned several, and looked at a bunch of them. When they turn up at shows the prices are reasonable. Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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Hey guys, I just found this thread. I have an H&R Model 301 in 243, Manlicher stock and 18" Douglas barrel, it has a Leupold 6X heavy crosshair scope. Jack always call this a Mauser Supreme action. My ol hunting buddy bought this gun new, Jack has passed on now but if I remember correctly he told me he bought this gun in the late 70's or early 80's. This gun has killed more WV whitetails than a pickup truck could carry. I worked with Jack for 15 years and he let me use this gun to deer hunt with, I traded Jack out of it about 7 years ago, and I lost my best huntin buddy in June of 2010. I'm sorry I'm not very computer savy I'd post a pic, but if one of you all will PM me with your email address I can do that. Thanks for this post it brings back lots of good memories for me and good hunts with my best buddy. :'(
Joe
Good story! You can email it to me I will post here for you.
cwlongshot@att.net
CW
Here is the only pic that I was able to open...
I replied and requested pics be sent again but got no answers...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/IMG00123.jpg)
CW
CW, thanks for posting that picture of wykjoetc's Model 301 Mannlicher UltraRifle in .243. A beautiful gun. I also got some attachments from him but could not open any up.
I did more checking on my newly aquired 7MM Mag Model 300 UltraRifle. I am happy to report it is built on the Yugoslavian Mauser Action.
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This is a great thread guys, thanks to all that have posted and shared info on these great rifles. Lets don't stop keep on posting pics and information when you find it.
Joe
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This is a great thread guys, thanks to all that have posted and shared info on these great rifles. Lets don't stop keep on posting pics and information when you find it.
Joe
Hello Joe
I agree, but I think we are at a stand still as far as any More Pertinenant Information on these great rifles goes, Being that H&R is No Longer in Business as the Old Company was, and the newly formed H&R company does not have any record's of Past Production figures for these guns, as H&R Turned those over when they disolved the company to the ATF . Sadly most have not even seen these guns let alone owned one, yet they compare them to Other Mauser style actions of which these fine Crafted Bellgium Made FN actions are a breed of their Own, and I will Not argue with anyone that is Just Plain Ignorant to the differences in these FN actions. It has been suggested that only a Thousand of these fine Crafted rifles were made, but I have no solid proof of that and feel we may never find the real production figures. I have Hunted for one for better than 25 Years to no avail, so they are certainly not common or there for the taking. In comparing these Mauser style actions I have a Husqvarna rife that was made in 1967. It has a small ring Mauser style action but in no way compares to the higer quality of these H&R rifles with their FN Bellgium actions and to assume all mauser actions are the same is Just Plain Ignorant. I have had Many rifles in the Past with Mauser style actions but None out there can Begin to compare to these as they operate like they are on roller ball Bearings which comes from close tollerances and fine hand honing and Polishing, not seen in Mass Produced Production rifles no matter what brand we are looking at... ;) Hammerdown
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H&R imported some nice rifles as did Browning. I rarely go to a gunshow without seeing one. CNC machinery is the reason we were finally able to shoot MOA groups. Closer tolerances....
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H&R imported some nice rifles as did Browning. I rarely go to a gunshow without seeing one. CNC machinery is the reason we were finally able to shoot MOA groups. Closer tolerances....
Hello Swampman
I Keep hearing this CNC accuracy claim's out of you for M.O.A., but you really need to educate your self to what a "Premium Barrel" or where a rifle obtains it's Fine accuracy. The rifles accuracy is in the Head spacing and Quality standard's & Materiels used in the Making of the barrel that is Placed into the reciever . H&R chose the best of both worlds by mating a Supreme FN Mauser action which has alway's been known as one of the strongest, most durable actions ever made, with a Custom Douglas Premium air Gauge Barrel. These barrels are made to be within .001" or less when Made in their Total length. Here is what process is done when Douglas makes their Barrel's and where other's Always fall short as they do not have the Means, or materials to work with or the equipment to place into their barrel's finish quality, when we are talking of Mass Produced status to acheive a tollerance of .001" or Less when making them. Perhaps this will both enlighten & educate you on what a Premium Grade Barrel really is...No Hocus Pocus, No CNC Just super accurate hand Cherry Picked Premium Target Grade Match Barrels, That are Button rifled, Not Cut rifling which can make the world of difference on the internal bore finish for accuracy result's something Remington simply Can Not offer only perhaps in their 40X series of guns but I really doubt they are within .001" or Have air gauged quality In finished rifling machined tollerance from one end of the finished barrel to the other as the Douglas Premium Air Gauge Barrels do..Douglas claims their "Reject's" are closer in over all barrel tollerance than Most rifle makers can offer...and that is where the True accuracy of a fine rifle Really is determined....
-Douglas Premium Air Gauge Graded barrels
For the benefit of the super serious target shooter, premium barrels are "cherry picked" one step further. Barrel companies use a device called an air gauge to measure rifling uniformity the full length. Barrels that gage .001" or less variation from one end to the other are stamped "Premium Air Gage Grade". In our opinion, this feature is useful only to an extremely serious target shooter who is trying for the ultimate small target group and is of no value to the average shooter of mass produced production grade rifles, there simply is no comparrision.
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CNC machines make for .0001 tolerances. Many years ago Douglas barrels were considered pretty good. I don't think anyone gives them much thought now days. They are old hat. I'm just saying. Pretty is nice, I like pretty...accurate is better.
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Thanks for that great information Hammerdown, it really shows part of what goes into a fine rifle as opposed to a rifle off a production line which is mass produced for the the general public...Those mass produced, production line rifles may be adequate for the task as hand but the handfitted and handcrafted quality and precision evident in these limited production fine rifles is outstanding and far outpaces those production guns. It would be impossible to match these guns in todays market unless you spent thousands of dollars on a fine limited production custom built rifle....<><.... :)
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Thankfully used 1950s and 60s european made Mausers are inexpensive and common.
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One thing I've found over the years.
There's a place in my collection for both.
But I do clearly prefer enjoying a fine hand crafted weapon.
There's a reason why gunsmiths can make money fine tuning a production rifle.
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OldFart,
You are correct, gunsmiths make big money tuning production rifles. Swampy so you know Douglas does have a CNC machine, and have had for several years. I'm only an hour from Douglas factory and have been taken through their shop in Cross Lanes WV. Most of the employees have been with Douglas for many years and are excellant to deal with, and a product second to no one. I think pretty good is an understatement,
Joe
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Some people still feel that way. I like the rifle but we should keep in mind that they were all finished that way when it was produced. Many still are. They are bargins though.
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Thanks for that great information Hammerdown, it really shows part of what goes into a fine rifle as opposed to a rifle off a production line which is mass produced for the the general public...Those mass produced, production line rifles may be adequate for the task as hand but the handfitted and handcrafted quality and precision evident in these limited production fine rifles is outstanding and far outpaces those production guns. It would be impossible to match these guns in todays market unless you spent thousands of dollars on a fine limited production custom built rifle....<><.... :)
Hello MSPRet
You are exactly right, and to know the H&R quality by owning one & shooting it is as Rare as the rifle. There is no comparision to other run of the Mill Mauser actions as so many copied the design but failed to improve upon it and add the features or high grade barrels that H&R Used which is my point. I have seen Ton's of other Mauser action rifles with Inferior barrels on them for sale at most gun shows but I always pass them up, as they are not H&R's Nor do they have a Douglas Barrel mated to their receiver as the New Remington's are Not what they used to be, they are a cheap slammed out production gun. I feel Reminghton spends more time on Re-call's these days than they do on putting out a quality rifle as well as their ammo that always seems to be recalled. I don't have time to spend on recalls. The 660 & 700 Triggers have been faulty since the late 1940's Yet the company denies this. If you choose to shoot a Remingtion be carefull you may shoot your eye out... ;) As for me I will stay with a High Grade H&R. I hope this Thread does not get closed for those of us who Know the difference of high quality in these H&R rifles and enjoy the discussion on them, who are educated enough to see & Know the difference of these fine rifles, as they are not your run of the mill Mauser action rifle, they are a Thourobred that would be far to expensive to offer today......I have a friend who is Pro-Remington who has over 25 High Powered Remington rifles who has seen, Handled and fired my H&R. He too now agrees that the H&R is a Breed by itself , unlike any other Mauser actioned rifle he has seen, owned or fired and has asked me to locate one for him. Some are willing to learn, then some just want the sake of argument about something they don't have a Clue about I Guess.... ::)
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I was talking to a friend of mine the other day and he tells me he has 3 H&Rs on Sako actions. A 221 Fireball that has been rebarreled from a 222 (and still has the original barrel) a 223 and a 17/223 Ultra Wildcat. I will try this weekend and get some pics. He is a Sako collector and bought these through the years. I'll be getting back to you all.
Joe
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Go to the nearest gun show. They aren't hard to find. Semi-mass produced imports tend to be inexpensive.
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I have decide that some people just want to disagree and argue. The same poster that said new production line mass produced rifles (Remington's and others implied) are better, stronger and more accurate than older hand fitted rifles, and that new CNC machines produce rifle barrels straight their entire length to .0001" tolerance also said in another recent thread (posted below) "I wouldn't buy a new gun of any make right now. The quality is worse and a used one can be had for 1/2 the price of new." I have searched for and finally located the "ignore" button and I feel much better now. Life is too short to argue just to argue and to take opposite sides of the same issue just to argue against other peoples views and to stir things up....<><.... :)
" (http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/Themes/GreenBeanForSMF2/images/post/xx.gif) Re: ruger bought marlin? (http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,254744.msg1099498731.html#msg1099498731)« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2012, 02:47:37 PM » - Quote (http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?action=post;quote=1099498731;topic=254744.0;last_msg=1099499223)
Quote from: nailbanger on March 30, 2012, 02:29:19 PM (http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,254744.msg1099498720.html#msg1099498720) I've read on the Marlin Owners site many unhappy posts reguarding the quality of the new Marlins.
Mostly sour grapes from old Marlin employees. I wouldn't buy a new gun of any make right now. The quality is worse and a used one can be had for 1/2 the price of new."
The last paragraph above is the response I am referring to. It is not a response from member nailbanger, our poster just "quoted" nailbanger and then posted the argumentative response that no new gun is as good as a used gun. In this thread he tells us no used gun is as good as a cnc produced new gun.... ::)
edited for clarity...
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??? I've never seen any Sako's that were inexpensive? I know around these parts you don't see many of them, when you do you could buy two Remingtons for one Sako. This is Remington country around here, a lot of deer hunters carry a 7400 Remington, me I wouldn't have one, but thats me. I've had a bunch of 700's and still have my 722/222 and wouldn't take two Sako's for it. I guess it all boils down to what you like and feel comfortable shooting.
Joe
MSP, I have to agree with you on that point the new guns that are coming out of the factories today is pretty pittyful. I'll stick with the old guns and be happy.
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I agee buddy, I much prefer fine older hand fitted guns whenever I can afford them. Most if not all newer production line guns are not of the quality of the older hand fitted guns. I also would prefer to stick to the older guns when I can. That and finding the ignore button has made me even more happy....<><.... ;D
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Not what I said really....any Remington 700 (even a new one from Walmart) will be more accurate (and always have been) than any mauser type action rifle. It will also be stronger and safer.
The mauser's are ok for big game. They are accurate enough and will withstand normal factory pressures.
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I have decide that some people just want to disagree and argue. The same poster that said new production line mass produced rifles (Remington's and others implied) are better, stronger and more accurate than older hand fitted rifles, and that new CNC machines produce rifle barrels straight their entire length to .0001" tolerance also said in another recent thread (posted below) "I wouldn't buy a new gun of any make right now. The quality is worse and a used one can be had for 1/2 the price of new." I have searched for and finally located the "ignore" button and I feel much better now. Life is too short to argue just to argue and to take opposite sides of the same issue just to argue against other peoples views and to stir things up....<><.... :)
" (http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/Themes/GreenBeanForSMF2/images/post/xx.gif) Re: ruger bought marlin? (http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,254744.msg1099498731.html#msg1099498731)« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2012, 02:47:37 PM » - Quote (http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?action=post;quote=1099498731;topic=254744.0;last_msg=1099499223)
Quote from: nailbanger on March 30, 2012, 02:29:19 PM (http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,254744.msg1099498720.html#msg1099498720) I've read on the Marlin Owners site many unhappy posts reguarding the quality of the new Marlins.
Mostly sour grapes from old Marlin employees. I wouldn't buy a new gun of any make right now. The quality is worse and a used one can be had for 1/2 the price of new."
The last paragraph above is the response I am referring to. It is not a response from member nailbanger, our poster just "quoted" nailbanger and then posted the argumentative response that no new gun is as good as a used gun. In this thread he tells us no used gun is as good as a cnc produced new gun.... ::)
edited for clarity...
Hello MSPRet
I fully agree, some enjoy derailing a thread or having it locked down, I sure wish a Moderator would step in and stop this unfounded annoying information which only serves the purpose of ruining this thread, and in my mind if you don't actually Own one of these rifles you have no bussiness commenting on them period. . For the most part us that have these rarely seen H&R rifles are intellegent enough to know the difference in a high grade rifle and I have enjoyed our discussion on these hard to find H&R rifles. They are "NOT" at every gun show or up for sale often as the previous owner's know what they have and hang onto them, much unlike the flooded market of inferior Remington's out there.. I Hit the Ignore button on my Under my user console as well as I am getting bored with hearing the same old misleading comments. I have some newer CNC Smith & Wessons as well, but they in no way can compare to the older ones in my collection. They have their place which is to be carried daily and beat down into the dirt, as they are worth very little in the current market Place where the older ones that I have are cherished and handled like fine china as they grow in value as time passes much like these fine H&R's do... Ignore button has been Launched... Hammerdown
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This is a thread about H&R rifles.
Add to it with info on H&R's or stay out please.
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Hello Forum member's
Yesterday I decided to Break out my 1967 H&R Ultra rifle for some Range time. I have not fired it since mid November just before Deer season. It is chambered in Winchester .308 caliber & I had with me a Box of Handload's I had assembled for my Gun using Nosler accu-Tip 165 Grain Bullets with a charge of IMR 4895 Powder. Shown below is the actual group fired from my gun at the 50 Yard line. The 100 Yard line Target stands were destroyed so I was forced to shoot the closer range target stands that explain's why my group show's to be a Tad Bit lower. The group size was a three shot cluster out of a cold Barrel and it is half the size of a dime. I see no reason to improve or modify the load that I have selected for this gun...If you would like to see the gun's group's closer, simply click on the pictures as I left them in large format... Hammerdown
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/S_W_1935_Registered_Magnum_at_the_Range_with_Tyler_shooting_it_009.jpg)
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/S_W_1935_Registered_Magnum_at_the_Range_with_Tyler_shooting_it_010.jpg)