Graybeard Outdoors (GBO Reloaded)

Black Powder Forums => Blackpowder Mortar and Cannon => Topic started by: Double D on October 31, 2005, 03:20:01 AM

Title: Carriage paint formula
Post by: Double D on October 31, 2005, 03:20:01 AM
I got a paint chip from Steen's and took it to Lowes to be analyzed, here's the formula from Lowes.

American Traditional latex semi gloss
Base: B4-19908 Quart.
101 1 ounce, 14 shots
105 46 shots, 1 half shot
111 34 shots
113 2 shots, 1 half shot.
Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: john pike on October 31, 2005, 03:33:25 AM
Quote from: Double D
I got a paint chip from Steen's and took it to Lowes to be analyzed, here's the formula from Lowes.

American Traditional latex semi gloss
Base: B4-19908 Quart.
101 1 ounce, 14 shots
105 46 shots, 1 half shot
111 34 shots
113 2 shots, 1 half shot.



Do we have to paint our cannons?
What color do you end up with?
and how much powder for each shot?

johnp
Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: Cat Whisperer on October 31, 2005, 03:38:30 AM
Quote from: john pike

....
Do we have to paint our cannons?
....
johnp


Of course!  Just look at your avitar, DD's avitar and MY avitar!

Isn't that paint?  Varnish is paint with VERY LITTLE pigment.
Title: Carriage paint formula
Post by: Double D on October 31, 2005, 03:44:42 AM
Someone in the past week or two posted a formula for the carriage paint from Home Depot.  Could you please post it again in this thread.  

When you do I will add a link to the FAQ's to this post so we can find the formula when we need it.

Here is the original formula from The 1864 Field Artillery Tactics:

Proportions are given for 100 parts by weight

Black Paint

Lamp black  28
Litharge  1
Japan Varnish 1
Linseed Oil, boiled  72
Spirits turpentine  1

Grind the lampblack in oil: mix it with the oil, then grind the litharge in oil and add it , stirring it well into the mixture.  The varnish and turpentine are added last. The paint is for the iron work of carriages.

Olive Paste

Yellow ochre, Pulverized  68
Lampblack  11
Boiled oil  37
Spirits of turpentine 0.4

Make a thick paste with the Ocre and oil, in a paint-pot, and with the lampblack and oil in another; grind them together in small portions, and keep the mixture in a tin vessel.

Liquid olive color

Olive paste  61.5
Boiled oil  29.5
Spirits of turpentine  5.5
Dryings  3.5
Japan varnish  2

Stirred together in a paint pot.


I think I will just go to Lowes and get it mixed.
Title: OD Carriage Paint.
Post by: Cpt Ed on October 31, 2005, 04:16:40 AM
Here is the OD mix from Sherman-Williams Paint company. This was computer analyzed from a Paulson Bros OD painted linstock.
I had this created in a oil base like the original.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/Cpt03Ed/MVC-146F.jpg)
Title: Carriage paint formula
Post by: gary michie on October 31, 2005, 04:35:38 AM
The green is oil I found that    Behr paint   "Ground cover" laytex is the right color so I had Home Depot mix the color in oil.
gary
Title: Carriage paint formula
Post by: Cat Whisperer on October 31, 2005, 04:42:06 AM
FWIW:

(n.) Lead monoxide; a yellowish red substance, obtained as an amorphous powder, or crystallized in fine scales, by heating lead moderately in a current of air or by calcining lead nitrate or carbonate. It is used in making flint glass, in glazing earthenware, in making red lead minium, etc. Called also massicot.

(This definition is from the 1913 Webster's Dictionary and may be outdated.)
Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: Double D on October 31, 2005, 05:07:07 AM
Quote from: john pike
Do we have to paint our cannons?
What color do you end up with?
and how much powder for each shot?
johnp


Of course not.  It's your cannon and you can  finish it however you want.  

We have had some absolutely beautiful guns of brass and walnut posted  here.  Some real works of art.

The original guns were painted.  Barrels black and the carriages olive.  Remember the old olive green mailboxes that sat on every corner when we were kids, that's the color.

I like painted guns and urge others to consider them. Once you do one  I believe you won't do them any other way. They are beautiful.  

To my eye the unpainted field guns have an unfinished look. Not everyone feels that way.

I have a Parrot Rifle I have been working on and when finished it will be painted.

Anyone else have any paint formulas?
Title: Carriage paint formula
Post by: CrufflerSteve on October 31, 2005, 06:25:47 AM
If it is posted to the sticky section it might be good to organize the paint formulas under US 18?? to ???? and so on. Most US Revolutionary War artillery I've seen used a bluer paint for the carriages. I assume that was copied from the Brits. When I look at repros of even older cannon, I've seen yellow, red & green carriages. I've wondered if this was to an old standard or simply creative painting.

Steve
Title: Carriage paint formula
Post by: gary michie on October 31, 2005, 09:01:14 AM
I have been told by the old timers here that the old paint formulas  don't work the color names of today are not the names of 1800's. I never tried I just used the civil war color match. I have heard that white was the color for the rev. and a yellow tan or green was right durning the indian wars
Title: Carriage paint formula
Post by: GGaskill on October 31, 2005, 09:27:01 AM
Use of the Civil War era paint formulas quoted above with modern materials leads to a yellow-brown color instead of the olive color of the name.  But experiments with pre-1900 pigments found in old hardware stores confirmed that the color produced by mixing lampblack and yellow ochre actually does produce an olive green color (it's interesting to note that the S-W formula shown above is creating a green color from black, gold [similar to yellow ochre] and a couple of trace colors.)

It is probably best to pick an olive green in modern paint and use that instead of trying to mix the old formula.
Title: Carriage paint formula
Post by: CU_Cannon on October 31, 2005, 09:58:56 AM
Here is the formula for the paint I use.  I got it from the Saratoga military museum.  They said it was matched from original paint.  It seams a little dark but looks great in sunlight.  My only grievance is the drying time.  It dries to the touch in a few hours but will stay soft for a month or better.  

The Home Depot Behr
Premium Plus Int/Ext High Gloss
Deep Base (8300) Quart

ColorantOZ4896
B  Lamp Black131
KX White090
L Raw Umber1130
T Medium Yell0211
Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: GGaskill on July 21, 2006, 11:40:42 AM
Maybe add a little (and I do mean a little) Japan dryer to the paint.  Pour enough to use into a separate cup/can and add the dryer to that so you don't cause the remaining paint to set up.  Interesting to note that, like the S-W paint above, the HoDe Behr is using black, raw umber (which is a very dark color) and yellow to produce an olive green.
Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: CU_Cannon on July 22, 2006, 09:36:39 AM
The drying time is only a problem in high humidity.  In the winter it will dry hard in about a day.

I updated the table in the above post so it works on the new system.  The table feature is a little more complicated than the old system but it works just as well.
Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: Double D on July 09, 2008, 04:02:18 AM
BTT
Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: toysoldier on November 02, 2008, 05:21:39 AM
I just started looking at this area of GBO.
I came up wiht an olive drab by accident. Had a propane tank I needed to paint. After giving it a good base coat of Rustoleum, I took an assortment of partial cans of oil paint I had accumulated and mixed them together. Black, orange, off-white, blue and a little yellow turned into a very military-looking olive drab. Great result, and it sure cleared out the paint locker. :)
Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: Terry C. on November 02, 2008, 10:51:23 AM
Yeah, but can you do it again?  :) :D ;D
Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: toysoldier on November 02, 2008, 02:50:59 PM
Serendipity rarely strikes twice. :(
Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: Double D on November 05, 2012, 02:30:19 PM
btt
Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: 5kwkdw3 on November 05, 2012, 07:55:29 PM
All my stuff is new and only one is a scaled copy of some former existing piece, but was done in stainless steel.  Since I have a thing for stainless, most all of my pieces are of that material.  I have two that are not.  A cannon with a steel carriage styled like an older piece, but certainly not specific and a thunder mug again, not a copy of any specific piece.  So, I got along quite fine with RustOleum's High Heat flat black aerosol.  I also got a great deal on Ebay for a case of that paint.  I like the Ford Idea of any color as long as it's black.  Smithy.
Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: Double D on November 06, 2012, 02:20:20 PM
Quote from: 5kwkdw3 on November 05, 2012, 07:55:29 PM
All my stuff is new and only one is a scaled copy of some former existing piece, but was done in stainless steel.  Since I have a thing for stainless, most all of my pieces are of that material.  I have two that are not.  A cannon with a steel carriage styled like an older piece, but certainly not specific and a thunder mug again, not a copy of any specific piece.  So, I got along quite fine with RustOleum's High Heat flat black aerosol.  I also got a great deal on Ebay for a case of that paint.  I like the Ford Idea of any color as long as it's black.  Smithy.

That's fine for barrels, Smithy but this thread is about cannon carriages.  Do you have a paint formula for the olive color for cannon carriages?
Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: Cannon Cocker on November 07, 2012, 10:06:39 AM
Check out the mustardy looking color on this ordnance rifle carriage.  What formula or explanation is there for this color.  Steen has the more traditional dark army green for the rest of the carriages in the photo portfolio, and many people actually try to copy their color with the idea that it is close to correct. 

http://steencannons.com/cannons/u-s-3-inch-ordnance-rifle/
Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: GGaskill on November 07, 2012, 11:34:30 PM
If you mix paint using the old 1860's Ordnance formula but do not use the same materials they used, you will get that sort of dark yellow color.  This was published in the Artilleryman article discussing Civil War proper carriage color that was posted in the last couple of months as I recall.  Seems like the lampblack was not the same as the old version.
Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: Artilleryman on November 08, 2012, 06:56:58 AM
I was under the impression that the difference was caused by using yellow ochre instead of French yellow ochre.
Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: Cannon Cocker on November 08, 2012, 06:56:59 PM
I like the way it looks, but would not use it if it was only arrived at by mistakes caused by differences in modern and  period materials, rather than what might have occurred during the period. 
Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: GGaskill on November 08, 2012, 08:32:20 PM
I was under the impression that the difference was caused by using yellow ochre instead of French yellow ochre.

Might have been; I was going from memory versus rereading the article; and I have daily reminders of how well my memory is functioning.
Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: skratch on November 09, 2012, 03:38:54 PM
Here's the color I used, it's a Sherwin Williams color. Their OD green to me was a little off, I chose this instead. Can give the formula if anyone if anyone is interested.



Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: Double D on November 09, 2012, 04:01:21 PM
Quote from: skratch on November 09, 2012, 03:38:54 PM
Here's the color I used, it's a Sherwin Williams color. Their OD green to me was a little off, I chose this instead. Can give the formula if anyone if anyone is interested.
Post the formula.  Capt Ed already posted one Sherwin Williams formula another won't hurt.
Title: Re: Carriage paint formula
Post by: skratch on November 10, 2012, 11:40:46 AM
Sherwin Williams Int/Ext Oil Based Low Sheen
6173 Cocoon
BAC COLORANT  OZ  32 64 128
W1-WHITE          -     27  -      1
B1-BLACK            -     18   1    1
R2-MAROON        -       -    1    1
Y3-DEEP GOLD    -     16   1    1


QUART                 ULTRADEEP
A11T00214          640325775