300-grain bullet for .45 Colt?

[Woodtroll]

Mr. Smith,

I'm looking for a .45 caliber bullet for use in my .45 Ruger Blackhawks. I have several of your moulds, including a 325-gr WLN, but that one is most accurate at full power. I'm looking for a bullet that will be accurate and stable in moderate loads from 950-1100 fps. I will be using this for general duty, including deer hunting, possibly hog or black bear hunting (but will probably revert back to the 325 WLN with heavy loads if going after these specifically).

I'm looking at the 300 WFN, but am unsure what nose length to order. Can you suggest a form, and load, that will work best for moderate loads in the Ruger?

Thanks very much! Regan

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive got an old lbt swcpb mold that i think casts at about 330 grain that has been an excellent heavy in the .45s its accurate and flys well at long range. I dont know if veral still cuts that mold or not though.

[Veral]

  With the WFN, unless it is 325 gr or heavier, I cut only a .35 nose, and if you want to shoot at those mild velocities there is no good reason to put gas checks on them, if you bore is smooth.  Real rough guns must be lapped to shoot plain base bullets. 
  The 300 gr WFN will shoot accurately at lower velocities than you 325 WLN, but not a lot lower speeds, if your WLN is properly fitted, which I assume it is.  If you want a really nice bullet for light loads, get a 280 gr, which will shoot accurately at velocities down to probably 700 fps, 800 fps will stabilize it out to long ranges.  It is heavy enough for deer, bear, and don't back off from an elk if you have it going at least 1200 fps, which is the best speed for fast kills on deer and larger game.

  Yes, I still make the heavy SWC Lloyd talks about, which is an exact copy of the Keith heavyweight.  In his configuration (The exact copy.) it is plainbase,  but I can cut it for gc too. It has almost as wide a meplate as my WFN and is a super game bullet, but being heavy, it isn't a good low velocity bullet.  I also make the original Kieth 45 Colt 260 SWC bullet and his original design 44 250 gr SWC.  If the original profile 44 bullet is cut in 45 caliber the weight comes out at about 270 gr.  Those who loved Keith order it fairly often.  I offer all these, not because they are superior designs, but because they are good, and because Keith should not be forgotten.

[Woodtroll]

Thanks very much for the reply, Mr. Smith! I will be sending you an order.

[Lloyd Smale]

I have the 260 swc that veral refers to also and its a real good bullet but like veral said in my experience it needs a little bump to shoot well. The 330 in my experience has done real well in my guns as low as 900 fps though. But then again every gun is its own animal and a couple of them didnt do well until it was pushed to 1100fps or better. I looked at my load data for both of those bullets through the years last night and found that Alloy had a big part to play in it, even more so then most bullets. I got much better accuracy with harder bullets (around 18bhn) using both of those designs. Veral you know im a man that speeks what i believe and dont hold many punches. I know you were at the ground floor of developement of the lfns and wfns. They both have there place. Theres not much of a better all around bullet then a lfn and even wfns have there place even though as I do alot of long range shooting i dont use many. I think that a reintroduce line of kieths in different calibers would be a big seller for you. Id be first in line for a .475 and .512 version and even a 32 and 41 version would be awful tempting.

[Veral]

  Thank you Lloyd.
  As I stated above, I make the Kieth bullets in all the versions I know of, plus cutting his 44 profile in 45 cal, which Kieth never did.  I have made them in 475, but don't recall ever making a 50 cal, though I can and would be glad too. (Kieth died before the 475 and 500's came out.) I'm speaking here of using the exact SWC shoulder and ogive shape as the 44 K, and cranking it in or out to whatever diameter is wanted.  It will work well for 41.

  As for a Kieth 32 bullet profile, I've never heard of one.  If any of you readers send me such a sample I'll copy it.

  You state that I was at the ground floor of developement of the LFN and WFN.  To set the record straight I was completely lonesome, receiving no input what so ever from anyone.  This includes the WLN, LCFN, SP  glue on patch.  In fact, except for the Kieth bullets, I developed all the LBT offerings.  Each offering was developed, after my experiance proved a need for the product or room for improvement (in bullet designs).  I'm convined that I've spent more money and time on cast bullet developement than all the other moldmakers combined in the last 25 years.  My offerings to the cast bullet community, both products and information, are the sole reason why the gun controllers in government have been trying to put us out of business for the last 7 years.  They HAVEN'T quit trying, and I won't quit!  So hopefully you now understand my boldness in putting LBT out front of anything else.

 To make myself perfectly clear.  This is NOT an appoligy!
 
  Please read the previous post about bullet design.

[Woodtroll]

Thanks, Veral, for taking the time to respond to my questions and to write up the post about design. You cut my first 45 325 WLN many years ago for my stainless Virginian Dragoon (this was before Ruger ever made any stainless 45 Blackhawk, to give you some idea of time frame). I have a collection of your moulds now (and your book), and every one has done what you said it would.

From this particular nullet I'm after superb accuracy out to 30-50 yards, good accuracy to 100 or a little more, at 1000 fps or so muzzle velocity. I will be using these as multi-purpose plinking, target, and game loads, up to whitetail deer. Do you think the 280 would be the best for this, or should I speed up the 300 for better long-range accuracy?

Thanks again, Regan

[Veral]

  I'm a bit hyped with the 280 gr because it delivers top drawer accuracy at 200-300 yards from most revolvers with only the  modest velocities that you have in mind.  Kill speed will peak at about 1300 fps, though at ranges to 100 yards, 1100 fps will rarely leave a deer standing after impact.

[Woodtroll]

The 280 sounds perfect. Mr. Smith, I certainly appreciate your time, and will try to get the order in the mail this weekend. Many thanks! Regan

[Veral]

  You make me feel like an effective salesman!  Wonder if I could get rich selling cars?

[Woodtroll]

I certainly wouldn't class you as a car salesman- I've been very happy with the 8 moulds I've bought from you over the years, and am glad to have the opportunity to buy another.

[Veral]

  You may have my character tagged pretty close. I was kidding for sure.  I'd have to put on a mask and change everything about me to take that job on!