Author Topic: Am I the only one still using #11 caps? (Read 2117 times)

gt2003 · « **on:** August 20, 2006, 04:26:57 AM »

From what I've seen, all of the new muzzleloaders are using 209 primers. I wouldn't mind having a new muzzleloader but I absolutely don't want a 209 primer ignition system. I currently use the knight wolverine with a #11 cap and loose 777 powder. I've never had a problem with it so don't see much need to change. So, 2 questions:

1. Do you think the #11 cap and possibly even the musket cap will become things on the past?

2. Will the manufacturers come out with some "middle of the road" mass production ignition system (like the precision rifle .25 acp) that will be hotter than caps but have much less fouling than the 209 primers?

Once that happens then I might buy a new ML but as of now I'm sticking with what works.

One more thing. Are there nipples for the knight wolverine ML that take musket caps instead of the #11's? If I change anything, this would probably be it. But, I don't know if they are available. Thanks, Greg

smoky · « **Reply #1 on:** August 20, 2006, 05:37:57 AM »

I am shooting the same thing as you are in my Wolverine with no intention to switch it to a 209 system. In my encore I have the .25 ACP because I don't want the heat of the 209's.

To answer your first question, I think we are along way from seeing the #11's and musket caps out of the picture, but definately most of the inlines made will probably have the 209 system.

To answer your second question, I believe we are seeing the ammo companies produce a product to fit where the inline industry is already at, that being 209's made specifically for inlines rather than shotgun shells. My guess is that they are doing research to produce 209 sized primers that produce the optimum amount of ignition for BP and the BP subsitutes.

Finally, I think there may be a musket nipple conversion for the Knight Wolverines, but I'm not sure. Mine shoots 777 loose and Dead Centers too well with the #11's to ever think of switching to anything else.

Smoky

Cheesehead · « **Reply #2 on:** August 20, 2006, 05:41:59 AM »

I did upgrade my Thompson Center Big Boar 58 from #11 caps to musket caps and realize an improvement in ignition. Cheap upgrade and positive results.

Cheese

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** August 20, 2006, 05:55:57 AM »

An alternative to the hat shaped musket caps is the RWS flangeless Musket cap #1081, more fire than a #11, but not as much as the 209.

Tim

http://www.gamaliel.com/cart/customer/product.php?productid=3872&cat=351&page=1

http://www.smoke-thunder.com/tricks/hangfire.html

SURVEYOR · « **Reply #4 on:** August 20, 2006, 06:59:49 AM »

#11's are all I need to set any loose powder off in my Whites. I've never had a mis-fire, and accuracy is just great. I have no need to convert to musket caps or 209's even thou it's avaible. Are they going to quit making them? I hope not! If they do I'll have a 25 acp breeck plug made.

simonkenton · « **Reply #5 on:** August 20, 2006, 08:38:14 AM »

No way they will quit making #11 caps. Look, cartridge pistols came into widespread use with the Colt in 1873. Yet today there are what, 3 or 4 manufacturers of these caps. Look at all the cap and ball pistols sold today, Cabelas has 2 full pages of them. In England, you can't get a modern pistol, but you can get cap and ball.
These caps will be with us for the rest of our lifetimes.

Busta · « **Reply #6 on:** August 20, 2006, 08:55:56 AM »

Quote from: gt2003 on August 20, 2006, 04:26:57 AM

From what I've seen, all of the new muzzleloaders are using 209 primers. I wouldn't mind having a new muzzleloader but I absolutely don't want a 209 primer ignition system. I currently use the knight wolverine with a #11 cap and loose 777 powder. I've never had a problem with it so don't see much need to change. So, 2 questions:

1. Do you think the #11 cap and possibly even the musket cap will become things on the past?

2. Will the manufacturers come out with some "middle of the road" mass production ignition system (like the precision rifle .25 acp) that will be hotter than caps but have much less fouling than the 209 primers?

Once that happens then I might buy a new ML but as of now I'm sticking with what works.

One more thing. Are there nipples for the knight wolverine ML that take musket caps instead of the #11's? If I change anything, this would probably be it. But, I don't know if they are available. Thanks, Greg

They make 'em, if you think you really need them. If you plan on shooting 777 pellets, I would recommend the Musket Cap or .209, #11's will not reliably set those off. I use #11's and loose 777 FFG & FFFG and never had a problem.

http://www.knightrifles.com/productDetail.aspx?id=323977

oneshotonekill · « **Reply #7 on:** August 20, 2006, 09:31:38 AM »

I still use #11's in all but 1 of my ML's. I see no use for a 209 primer in a ML. They are overkill and in some cases are probably detrimental to accuracy. The one ML I have that is not set up for number 11's is a Knight Disk Extreme that I just bought, and I plan on buying the veriflame system and using small rifle primers in it. I have never had ignition problems with #11's even when using 120-130 grains of loose pyrodex. I only shoot loose powder so that may be why I have not experienced any problems. I've heard the pellets can be difficult to ignite. If I were to start shooting pellets I would probably opt for a 25acp conversion or veriflame system.

lonewolf5348 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 20, 2006, 10:22:42 AM »

I use the RWS 1075+ no#11 caps in my thunderhawk and never had a mis-fire. the only time I had any problems is when I switch to a musket nipple and musket cap.I like t/c flame thrower nipple compare to the standard nipple

davestewart38 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 20, 2006, 04:28:31 PM »

I shoot #11 caps with patched roundballs for target practice.I was able to buy a large quantity of #11 caps for $1/100.My rifle shoots to the same point of aim at 50 yds.with 50grs./patched roundball that it does with 100grs./200gr.shockwave.It has zero recoil with the roundball load and is extremely accurate.I use a 209 conversion with pellets.I tried to shoot pellets with #11 caps to see what would happen although it isn't a recommended practice..It produced a hangfire.

jim0149 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 22, 2006, 05:53:41 AM »

I have always used RWS #11 in my old USA Knight and never had a problem. I do not plan to switch unless they stop making them. No ignition problems with black, pyro. and 777.
Jim

slayer · « **Reply #11 on:** August 30, 2006, 07:25:45 PM »

My Renegade .50 uses #11`s as does my T/C NE 12 gauge and my old Knight inline. I use #11 maganum primers. Jack.

tscott · « **Reply #12 on:** August 31, 2006, 12:23:14 PM »

I just bought a Knight American on clearance for $89, because it takes the "out of date" #11. Seems like a good deal. What do you guys think?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** August 31, 2006, 12:31:04 PM »

Quote from: tscott on August 31, 2006, 12:23:14 PM

I just bought a Knight American on clearance for $89, because it takes the "out of date" #11. Seems like a good deal. What do you guys think?

Heh heh, #11 caps have never worked, never will catch on!!

Makes ya wonder how in the world we made em work for all these years if they're so out of date!! They might not work well for pellet loads, dunno, never tried pellets, but they work just fine for loose powder.

Tim

lil_hunter12 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 31, 2006, 01:55:39 PM »

i have a gun with the 209 ignition system but i use #11 caps and loose pyrodex and i even use round ball and patch.never have had a problem in the several years ive used this gun.

jgalar · « **Reply #15 on:** September 01, 2006, 02:32:44 AM »

When I got my Rem700 I changed it over to #11s before firing a shot. If the flame from a cap can snake around the corners of a sidelock why does everyone think it can't ignite a charge in a straight line.

mhwwlmc · « **Reply #16 on:** September 06, 2006, 04:03:02 PM »

I am still useing #11 Caps in my Remington 700 MLS. I shoot 95 Grains of loose 777 ffg powder & the TC 250 Gr. PTX Sabot. I use the Remington #11 caps. I have only had 1 missfire, which was caused by useing old recycled caps and the green ignition material had fallen out. I have since learned to throw away those old caps.

Critter · « **Reply #17 on:** September 09, 2006, 02:14:48 PM »

Yup I still use the #11 on my muzzleloaders. Does everything I have ever wanted it to. I won't upgrade unless I have to, doubtful, or decide to buy a new muzzleloader. I notice that choices are pretty slim for anything other than 209 ignition.

S.S. · « **Reply #18 on:** September 11, 2006, 06:00:04 AM »

You don't need a flame thrower to ignite your powder charge!
I have 1 in-line that uses them and it has never failed to fire.

slayer · « **Reply #19 on:** September 13, 2006, 10:40:49 AM »

True, especially with real blackpowder!! I use the #11 Magnum, only becuase they throw a little more flame and not much more money. Jack.

Maryland Hunter · « **Reply #20 on:** October 23, 2006, 02:30:37 PM »

Why wouldn't you want a 209 system? Are there drawbacks to them?
I converted both of my Knight years ago, to the 209,and love them both. My friend who swore he didn't want/need a 209, just recently switched, and is having great results as well.
Just curious as to why you wouldn't want one.
Thanks,

MH

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** October 23, 2006, 03:13:05 PM »

One reason would be they aren't legal everywhere, dunno how many states prohibit them, but they aren't legal here in Washington.

Tim

gt2003 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 23, 2006, 04:47:28 PM »

I've read in quite a few places that the 209 is just too hot for muzzleloaders and that it results in excess fouling as well as "unexplained flyers" from guns that normally shoot well. I use the #11 caps and loose powder quite successfully and quite accurately. Maybe I'm just scared to go with something different since what I have works so well. Thanks, Greg

Cougarz · « **Reply #23 on:** October 24, 2006, 01:08:55 PM »

Oh yes, good old Washington state. I wish we could use 209 primers and scopes. But the state and a certain state muzzleloader club keeps us from it.

But, I use 209 primers in the full plastic jacket with my Knight Bighorn bear hunting. I like the weatherproofness of the system.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #24 on:** October 24, 2006, 01:25:21 PM »

I just use RWS flangeless musket caps with a piece of surgical tubing over the cap and part of the nipple to keep em dry.

I wish optics for old eyes were allowed too, have to settle for a peep.

Tim

lil_hunter12 · « **Reply #25 on:** October 24, 2006, 02:09:16 PM »

here in kentucky we can use 209's and scopes i just choose not to use 209's because i can use the #11's on my rifle and my cap and ball revolver so i only have to buy 1 type of cap easier to remember.i dont use the scope because my funds r to low to buy 1

Maryland Hunter · « **Reply #26 on:** October 24, 2006, 02:28:34 PM »

Thanks for the replies to my question.

GT2003,
Sorry, didn't mean to take over your thread. I should've posted it as a separate question.

I didn't realize that 209's weren't legal everywhere, what a shame. I also didn't know that they had any drawbacks or effects on accuracy. So far, mine have been flawless, so I'll keep myfingers crossed.

MH

Cougarz · « **Reply #27 on:** October 24, 2006, 03:42:15 PM »

Actually I've had pretty good luck with #11 caps and use the tubing trick to keep moisture out. It works well. I just don't like the state regulations that prevent me from using MOST of the rifles out there today, and for no clear reason. My aging eyes strain with open sights as well. But I'm drifting off topic - sorry.