Author Topic: Woman shot to death while defending herself. No legal recourse for family. (Read 3228 times)

Old Griz · « **Reply #30 on:** November 27, 2006, 05:37:33 PM »

Hey Doc. Wish I could join you.

This last guy sounds like John Kerry in disguise. Complete with Democtaric scare tactics. Women and children killed in their beds. That's what Kerry said about our troops in Iraq. The Nazis are back! Sounds like the puppy poop is too! O brother.

fiream29 · « **Reply #31 on:** November 27, 2006, 08:30:00 PM »

Woop! If you can't debate like an adult, resort to name calling and insults! Now THAT sounds more like a Democrat to me. Let me get my 5 year old in here. You and he should have a delightful discourse.

jerkface11 · « **Reply #32 on:** November 28, 2006, 05:03:20 AM »

Quote from: Old Griz on November 27, 2006, 08:07:04 AM

Wow. You don't think the police make a difference? I don't know where YOU live, but my city is #2 on the FBI's list of violent crimes, and #2 for robbery and theft.

Wow sounds like your local PD is doing a GREAT job.

Old Griz · « **Reply #33 on:** November 28, 2006, 08:07:58 AM »

O brilliant one, it's not the police committing the crimes. We have a population where the minorities are in the majority. A corrupt minority run government, and everything is going downhill fast. 95% of the crime is committed by minorities. The police are swamped. Same thing is happening in Tucson, AZ. We need to triple the size of uor police force, but the city is broke. So Bubba, YOU come on down here and fix things. Good luck.

fiream29, I'd love to dicsuss things with your 5 year old. Afterwards, maybe he can explain things to you. (But I doubt it.)

camsdaddy · « **Reply #34 on:** November 28, 2006, 10:12:17 AM »

I happened to be in Atlanta the day after this happened and it was all over the local news. What I gathered was this lil old innocent lady was a drug dealer, they served a warrant she shot, they returned fire and she was killed. Now the cops are the bad guys because she was an elderly black female drug dealer oh yeah lets overlook the last part there. Both of my grandmothers lived to be in there 90's and never dealt anything stronger than castor oil or a whipping and neither was ever raided by the man or shot anything other than a wild dog or snake.

rockbilly · « **Reply #35 on:** November 28, 2006, 10:23:51 AM »

I would be the first to admit, the system is not perfect, but it is the best available to mankind on this planet.

We do have problems in the law enforcement area, we can accuse, eye poke, or complain forever but it will not help until someone comes up with a solution to the problem.

Keep in mind, most of us have never been confronted with a “deadly force situation,” We are not aware of the “whole truth,” so not really qualified to comment, pro or con on the incident. You can bet Brothers Jessie and All will play it to the max as they do any situation involving blacks and cops. And we all know the liberal reporters most often take the side of the victim, right or wrong.

camsdaddy · « **Reply #36 on:** November 29, 2006, 04:45:34 AM »

Oh yeah rest assured they were all over it.

jerkface11 · « **Reply #37 on:** November 29, 2006, 05:25:56 AM »

So now she was a drug dealer? I guess that's why the police are saying they found only a SMALL ammount of marijuana in the house and haven't said ANYTHING about finding a large amount of money. Yup sounds like a hardened criminal to me. Now ask yourself what you would do if you were woken up by 3 men breaking your door down. Would you assume they were the police?

dukkillr · « **Reply #38 on:** November 29, 2006, 06:25:22 AM »

an undercover cop bought drugs at the house. that's how they got the warrant. If someone sells you drugs I consider them a drug dealer, it seems simple to me.

Lee Robinson · « **Reply #39 on:** November 29, 2006, 08:44:56 AM »

I am tired of people protecting criminals, but I am also equally tired of people giving up their civil rights.

I think there are better ways to handle situations and I believe this could have been prevented.

jerkface11 · « **Reply #40 on:** November 29, 2006, 11:48:20 AM »

They've finally released the details of the warrant. It was no-knock. The informant named on the warrant says the cops called him and TOLD him what to say after the shooting.

rockbilly · « **Reply #41 on:** November 29, 2006, 12:13:49 PM »

I think age has little to do with drug dealing. Recently, two elderly women were stopped for a traffic violation on I-35 in South Texas. The DPS Trooper who stopped them got conflicting stories on where they had been, and where they were going, they allowed him to search the car. Under a pile of clothes and several suit cases he found over a million dollars in cash, and several one pound packages of drugs. One of the "ladies" told the trooper, "take the money and drugs, and let us go, we won't tell on you."

I know of several other cases where older citizens were lured into the drug trade by the money. Often they need the money, and turn to drugs because it is easy, and profitable. For some it is a means of survival as a result of low social security and/or medical bills, but I still can't condone it, a dealer is a dealer, no matter what spots they wear.

I also know of another case, in the local area, where a lady was arrested with a quantity of drugs in her purse after a tip from an anonymous caller. The cops executed a search without a warrant; their stories on what took place during the raid did not match, the jury found the lady not guilty.

It is suspected the call was made, and the drugs were planted by her estranged husband who was attempting to gain custody of triplet boys.

By the way, did you know you do not have to tell a LEO where you have been, or where you are going after a traffic stop. He may detain you, but there is no legal justification to ask this question unless there are cirmcunstances that indicate you may be involved in a crime.

Savage · « **Reply #42 on:** November 30, 2006, 02:14:37 PM »

Well gee guys----------a cop serving a valid warrant gets shot and he's not allowed to return fire! Sounds like an ideal situtation for the bad guys.
Savage

dukkillr · « **Reply #43 on:** November 30, 2006, 04:44:48 PM »

Quote from: Savage on November 30, 2006, 02:14:37 PM

Well gee guys----------a cop serving a valid warrant gets shot and he's not allowed to return fire! Sounds like an ideal situtation for the bad guys.
Savage

No, you don't get it. See she was old and a woman. Because she was old and female the cops should merely put their swastikas and guns away and go back to nazi europe 1942ish. Old women can never be involved in a drug deal, it's a proven fact. They also have a constitutional right to shoot at cops for whatever reason, particularly if it's to protect an illegal enterprise.

williamlayton · « **Reply #44 on:** December 01, 2006, 12:05:15 AM »

Police officers--of whatever stripe you name--have a job which requires them to be correct, it demands them to be correct.
If they draw a weapon they must do it correctly---be right--- They must be right, they cannot be wrong---that is what is demanded.
It is tough but that is not the point. The point is, of all the people who work, they MUST be correct in all that they do.
Mistake?? Mistakes?? When someones life or liberty is at stake they do not have the liberty to say "oops, well, I made a mistake, sorry, forgive me, I will do better next time". It is too late.
What say you--people are going to make mistakes? Then don't go into law enforcement--you give up that right.
Law enforcement folks should be judged by the laws that they uphold, the same as everybody else.
Now if this is so harsh, why should it not be another way. It cannot be another way.
Blessings

jerkface11 · « **Reply #45 on:** December 01, 2006, 05:43:27 AM »

Quote from: Savage on November 30, 2006, 02:14:37 PM

Well gee guys----------a cop serving a valid warrant gets shot and he's not allowed to return fire! Sounds like an ideal situtation for the bad guys.
Savage

Ah yes they were serving a valid warrant. All they had to do was LIE to a judge to get it.

I'll ask this question again. What would you do if you were woken up by the sound of someone knocking down your front door? Would you say "is that the police?" or would you grab a gun?

dakotashooter2 · « **Reply #46 on:** December 01, 2006, 08:00:41 AM »

Quote

All they had to do was LIE to a judge to get it.

Says their informant... after the fact...... who likely was a customer.... and who would probably sell out his mother if it involved money or a threat on his life (which it probably would be if the brothas found out he snitched voluntarily).

Old Griz · « **Reply #47 on:** December 01, 2006, 08:13:48 AM »

First, I want to apologize to fiream29 and jerkface11. Some of your statements really set me off, and I’m sorry.

My father (dead) and two brothers (retired) were LEO, and we have numerous friends on the force still, and I just can’t understand this anti-LEO attitude. The guys I know are hard working, honest, frustrated at the system, tired of corruption, but do the best job they can. None have killed any old ladies, had to lie to get warrants, or did anything to equate with Nazis or terrorists. I just don’t understand this phobia, or attitude, or where it’s coming from.

If these cops were wrong, it is certainly not the norm. Why try to make it sound like every cop out there is a dirty, dishonest, psychopath?

Savage · « **Reply #48 on:** December 01, 2006, 02:04:10 PM »

I'll ask this question again. What would you do if you were woken up by the sound of someone knocking down your front door? Would you say "is that the police?" or would you grab a gun?

Uh----well, I doubt if anyone will be selling drugs out of this house, if they do I want my cut!

I hear this crap all the time, "The police used excessive force in arresting that poor soul" Why did they have to shoot that poor misguided soul, he only shot them with a .22-------or he was old---or retarded---or a minority. Maybe if you made a couple of entries yourself you might understand. I damn sure don't want to trample on anyone's rights, and don't want anyone trampling on mine! I just want to go home at the end of the shift. Police officers make life or death decisions in a split second, the rest of you can take years second guessing them. Sorry for the rant, but if you haven't been there, you have no clue. Sleep well, I'm on watch.
Savage

greenjeans · « **Reply #49 on:** December 01, 2006, 02:33:45 PM »

Thank You, Savage!!

dukkillr · « **Reply #50 on:** December 01, 2006, 02:36:56 PM »

I enjoyed it as well. Nicely said.

Old Griz · « **Reply #51 on:** December 01, 2006, 06:10:46 PM »

Dittos. Thank you Savage.

wolfsong · « **Reply #52 on:** December 01, 2006, 08:37:33 PM »

Quote from: Savage on December 01, 2006, 02:04:10 PM

I'll ask this question again. What would you do if you were woken up by the sound of someone knocking down your front door? Would you say "is that the police?" or would you grab a gun?

Uh----well, I doubt if anyone will be selling drugs out of this house, if they do I want my cut!
I hear this crap all the time, "The police used excessive force in arresting that poor soul" Why did they have to shoot that poor misguided soul, he only shot them with a .22-------or he was old---or retarded---or a minority. Maybe if you made a couple of entries yourself you might understand. I damn sure don't want to trample on anyone's rights, and don't want anyone trampling on mine! I just want to go home at the end of the shift. Police officers make life or death decisions in a split second, the rest of you can take years second guessing them. Sorry for the rant, but if you haven't been there, you have no clue. Sleep well, I'm on watch.
Savage

Savage, you make valid points, but they are points from omly one side of the equation. I, too, want to be in my home, safe and content with my family. It seems now that the info supporting the warrant was iffy. Even if, and I stress if, an undercover leo had made a buy of drugs, wouldn't it be prudent to do a little recon and observing before placing ANYONE in harm's way? How much drugs did the alledged dealer (her nephew, in the original report) sell to the narc? A dime bag? $50 worth? A kilo? Seems to me that the amount would be an indication of just how high a priority this no-knock warrant would be. Is the cost of a stakeout more than the cost of litigation if this turns out to be a huge mistake? No war, including the war on drugs, and no battle in a war is carried out pell-mell with no strategy, planning and tactics. This case stinks at first smell, and unless EVERYTHING that the original complaint/concerns of the police task force requesting the warrant is true, then this is a crime and a miscarriage of justice. Nobody's life is worth a small amount of drugs - not the seller's, the buyer's, nor the officers'. There are safer, more effective methods of bringing down a drug dealer than breaking down doors in the middle of the night. This is not a Columbian or Mexican drug cartel, it was alledgedly a local neighborhood punk, who, by the way, wasn't even there at the time of the raid. As Mr. Layton pointed out, there is no room for honest mistakes. I admire and appreciate the fact that you and so many others do stand watch for all of us citizens. I would hope and pray that any leo's zealousness is tempered with caution, that their desire to uphold the law is as strong as their desire to protect and preserve life, and that their intelligence/information be checked and varified before acting. Being a police officer does not give them special rights to take a life. On the contrary, their status as leos gives them more responsibility to ALWAYS do the right thing. I do hope that all of you in law enforcement make it home safe and sound every day. And I hope that no one is a victim of police tactics gone wrong. This is not a oneway street. Peace and God bless, Wolfsong.

jerkface11 · « **Reply #53 on:** December 02, 2006, 05:14:16 AM »

Quote from: dakotashooter2 on December 01, 2006, 08:00:41 AM

Quote
All they had to do was LIE to a judge to get it.
Says their informant... after the fact...... who likely was a customer.... and who would probably sell out his mother if it involved money or a threat on his life (which it probably would be if the brothas found out he snitched voluntarily).

If their informant was that untrustworthy maybe they shouldn't have used his word to get a warrant.

Old Griz · « **Reply #54 on:** December 02, 2006, 01:04:21 PM »

I know that everyone is innocent until proven guilty (even cops); however, why do we assume this woman was a sweet little innocent grandmother? Her gender? Her age? Her race? Drugs are being sold out of her home, and she's sitting there watching TV (or whatever) with a gun? Sure, she may not have been involved in anything illegal. She could have been as guilty as sin. I think it's waaaaaaaaaaay too early to jump to conclusions.

Headspace · « **Reply #55 on:** December 02, 2006, 02:40:17 PM »

I think the cops did what they had to do in that situation. However I question what crime requires breaking into a citizens home to apprehend a criminal. If they were after a murderer I would say yeah it is worth risking the officers lives to go in after him but I don't feel the same way about drug crimes. There will always be mistakes and sometimes the police are going to go in the wrong address. So we need to look at what level of crime requires the cops to put their lives and our lives in danger. If they were to break into a home by mistake and the occupants legally defend themselves who is at fault? We need to revisit what constitutes legal search and seizure. Just my 2 cents worth.

wyocarp · « **Reply #56 on:** December 02, 2006, 05:07:30 PM »

I agree. We are a long ways past protecting and serving. Now, it should read, "They protect their own and serve themselves."

jerkface11 · « **Reply #57 on:** December 03, 2006, 05:46:09 AM »

Quote from: Old Griz on December 02, 2006, 01:04:21 PM

I know that everyone is innocent until proven guilty (even cops); however, why do we assume this woman was a sweet little innocent grandmother? Her gender? Her age? Her race? Drugs are being sold out of her home, and she's sitting there watching TV (or whatever) with a gun? Sure, she may not have been involved in anything illegal. She could have been as guilty as sin. I think it's waaaaaaaaaaay too early to jump to conclusions.

You guys still insist she was dealing drugs. Even the atlanta pd isn't saying that anymore. They found what they called a SMALL amount of marijuana in her home(their warrant indicated it was a crack house). And said nothing about finding a large ammount of money. It sure doesn't sound like she was dealing drugs. As for having a gun at the ready we still have the 2nd amendment don't we? Not to mention the 4th.