Author Topic: Bait draw stations (Differances) (Read 935 times)

RdFx · « **on:** March 08, 2003, 06:55:20 AM »

Checking other trapper responses to bait piles. I find bait draw stations made close to towns ( houses can be seen) are hit and cleaned up faster than bait stations in wilderness areas by coyotes in my area . North central Wisconsin. Also coon carcasses are only good for draw not consumption by canines, only crows and birds of prey work coon carcasses. Ive had bvr carcasses that wouldnt even be touched by yotes except to vist close to bait pile and leave scent posts. The carcasses skeleton would be there in middle of summer yet also. This also happens sometimes with farmers dead animal dumps on thier land. Sets made away fm dumps such as flat and urine posts work great, but nothing up close to set. This is not just a one or two yr occurance this is all the time.. Farmer does not hunt or trap and no one else traps area. ANyone else come up with likewise responses?

Wackyquacker · « **Reply #1 on:** March 08, 2003, 09:22:22 AM »

Well, I work a lot of carcasses each year. I purposly don't set close, also 25 yards is our legal min distance. In the past I have set traps right at the carcass. When ever I did this I caught one maybe two and the rest stayed off or hunted until they discovered every trap out.

As for draw stations with harvested animals, I find that unless the weather is really bad the coyotes will investigate from some distance or sometimes make a close circle and leave. The crows, ravens and eagles do the eating.

I have no experience with beaver or coon carcasses. But from your post tne coyotes respond the same to badgers. I have had them eat and drag / carry off cat carcasses when they were placed separate from the coyotes.

I use the carcass pile to get the crows coming which in turn brings a few coyotes along to look. This is very different than working a horse or cow etc.

Newt · « **Reply #2 on:** March 08, 2003, 01:27:40 PM »

No coyotes here.But "when" we had a good gray fox poplation they worked my bait piles.But only "if" we have very cold weather or snow.Deer is what I always used for bait.Nothng else seemed to work.
Now I dont even bother with bait piles.A red or gray fox carcus buryed with the back feet and tail uncovered works best for me.BUT than again "if" you can find a road killed house cat!!!! You cant beat it.Bury it like the fox.

rascal (Joe Duncan) · « **Reply #3 on:** March 11, 2003, 02:23:30 AM »

Interesting observation I had:

About two weeks ago, I had a friend bring in a horse that had to be put down and I took off the head, mane, and tail. Then we hauled the carcass to a ranch (undisclosed location :-) ) and dumped the carcass in a corner of the pasture. The corner was surrounded by wooded area but this was out in the open. Day before yesterday, I returned to use the dump again (getting rid of some furs that spoiled - but that is another story) and cat and coyote tracks were so thick you could hardly tell which was which. Now if I were to set traps at the site, I think I would do like Wackyquacker and RdFx often does and set back away from the site some and catch the canines and cats as they entered or exited the location. Maybe they would not have that meal on their mind yet and also might not be so leary jumpy.

Wackyquacker · « **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2003, 05:27:22 AM »

Carcasses, as Joe describes, can often be worked very productively with trail sets and if possible drags.

The exact methods which work best depend largely on the surrounding terrain and vegetation. Two extremes might be sparse too heavy woods and wide open places. In wooded / brushy areas think drags and you just go round picking catches out of the trees and trap locations don't change. In this type location I have had carcasses draw for weeks and have taken 17 coyotes off of a single carcass. It seems that the coyotes stay "on guard" when approaching tight carcasses, trails develop rapidly or are there to begin with and blind sets work best as the first ring of traps from 50 to 150 yards out. A second ring of traps out hundreds of yards along main approaches can be lured with gland, urine and curiosity lures.

The other extreme might be wide open flat desert; you have little choice and must stake. Stay back with your first ring of traps and try scent posts and gland sets along trails. After you have taken a few you may find that the remaining animals get fussy, ignoring lured sets. Frequently, you will now have well established trails where you can sneak in blind sets. The final (later in the life of the carcass, so to speak) line of traps may be very close blinds just back to where you're legal and don't catch birds. I have not been able to get as big of a yield off of open country carcasses as those in tighter cover...coyotes spoke more quickly and birds clean things faster.

In both cases, but more so with open areas, I have had luck with dirt holes and bait. Both the caching and stealing nature of coyotes comes into play. I use, when ever possible, a bait taken from the carcass. A mild food lure seems to help. I use bigger holes, leave the dirt and make it look like something has already dug at the hole. I fashion this excavation into a step down sort of arrangement (in the mound of dirt in front of the hole dig a groove like a coyote has pawed at the mound, put the trap in this groove back at what ever distance works for you, maybe 10 inches from the lip and place some guide clumps along the outside of the jaw closest to the hole). These sets seem to work well along travel routes quite away back from the carcasses (hundreds of yards) and later in the time frame of things.

I use snares any place I can. However, always consider the effect of a snared critter on others coming and the effect of scavenger birds on your catch.

Joe, glad to see you can still type with all those nasty, cut, greasey, stinky fingers. :-D

Asa Lenon · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2003, 06:13:18 AM »

Coyote and even fox are generally very wary of large bait piles in my locality. Even deer gut piles left by hunters are almost always ignored completely forever unless they are out in the open where the canine can see clearly in every direction. One must stay back from large baits for at least 50 yards to have any success, setting the trails, old roads or travelways leading to the large bait. My wife is a wildlife photographer and we baited bear for four straight Summers with meat scraps from a grocery store. During all of those four years, NOT ONE coyote or fox ate one morsel of those baits. We would see them around the perimeter standing on their hind legs looking the area over but then they would always disapear. Only one coyote, which come on a daily basis would get near the bait itself. He wanted some bait badly and would crawl up close on his belly watching every direction including upward but when he would finally get close he would chicken out everytime and leave. I would place coyote lures along his crawling route to see his reaction. He would sometimes get up, circle around again and again until he was right up close for a sniff. He ate some of the Super All Call on a toothpick and scratched at Nature's Call with a strange look on his face. Why these same coyotes and fox would bother to come every day but never eat any bait would be beyond me. Perhaps they feared a bear encounter or perhaps its just their wary nature. Even raccoons were really nervous about the baits but would come in after a good look long around. I seen the value of a good coon lure at work many times. Even with 100 lbs of bait right in front of them, not one coon would pass the lures without investigation, even climbing a tree on several occasions where the lure was on a tree limb above their heads. Ace

Bryan Nelson · « **Reply #6 on:** March 11, 2003, 06:29:29 AM »

I have developed quite a carcass pile each of the last two years. In years prior to that I never had permission to develop a LARGE pile, so simply scattered carcasses at different stops. Anyway, I have observed this pile closely and I have not noticed where fox or coyotes have actually fed on the pile. They come in and circle, but don't eat. These piles have been made of a variety of carcasses from Oppossum to Coyote. I have noticed similar instances on poultry farms with large dumps - k9s would not eat from main pile, but if there were individual birds scattered around they would eat.

Wackyquacker · « **Reply #7 on:** March 11, 2003, 06:51:22 AM »

I see the same here with carcass piles. I was referring to large whole carcasses of cattle, horses etc even Elk. I think you will find I have a little different situation that back east. These coyotes see carcasses year round.

One thing that I have noticed, the more crows and ravens the more the coyotes come and feed...eyes in the sky I think. No matter crows or not if it isn't really bad weather wise the coyotes won't feed on the skinned carcass dumps. They are a great place to observe Eagels!

rascal (Joe Duncan) · « **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2003, 08:15:59 AM »

I've never had any luck around carcass piles made up from furbearers. The only exception is that you can catch plenty of grinners and trap testers around this type carcass pile. Seems the possum and skunk like it even when the others don't.

Ok = here goes! The place where we dumped the horse carcass is also within 200 yards of my fox, coyote, and coon carcass dump. Nothing but buzzards and crows seem to feed from that pile. BUT, the horse carcass drew both coyote and bobcat that I could see. Did not see any grey fox sign. Something (can't say what) has eaten the rear end out of the horse as well as around the neck area where the head was detached.

Whose got ideas? I shared with one of the members that I once cut up horse meat into walnut sized chunks-- tainted and the set with NA Benzoate and used in dirt holes and it was HIGHLY ATTRACTIVE to the coyotes, fox, and coon. Think I'll do it again this year.

Wackyquacker · « **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2003, 08:44:42 AM »

Its been my experience that coyotes go for the bung hole and milk first. Once into the gut the cavity is cleaned so dang fast you didn't know it was full. The neck goes next but by this time its often hard to tell any order to things.

Horse meat along with burro, for what ever reason out draws cattle carcasses. Just last year a horse went down and it pulled the coyotes off a fresh cow faster and more completely than you could believe. It Seemed like every coyote from at least a five mile radius was making tracks to the horse. I've observed this same behavior may times.

The old timers, of the drop bait and 1080 years, went for horses always. Some say part of the reason was cost, i.e., horses were very cheap. I'll take chunked horse or burro over beef any day to bait coyotes or cats, for that matter. Now don't expect me to explain why they go for it but they do! The one exception may be fresh calves...nothing like a spring heifer pasture to make coyotes come out of thin air!

Happytrapper · « **Reply #10 on:** March 11, 2003, 01:09:45 PM »

I do not have much experience with pre baiting but I have observed many times bow hunting where the coyotes have gotten to the deer before myself or hunting group has. Some times eating almost the complete animal. This might be beacause the animal was very fresh or possibly even alive when found by the coyotes. Just some food for thought MIKE!

Fatcatbuster · « **Reply #11 on:** April 14, 2003, 07:19:48 AM »

Quite often i get calls from the local Police Deptarments to retreive auto hit deer. I usally get them and strip off the best parts for pre-bating. The rest i have discarded in various places, i too have noticed that the piles close to houses get hit more frequently,but i have noticed that if i try to coverup the deer with leaves/brush ,ect the pile gets hit alot more. I sometimes gang set traps close to these covered bait piles with fair to good results. It appears that the Canine thinks its to good to be true if it is all exposed. The animals i catch close are almost allways juniviles. Just my 2 cents..

RdFx · « **Reply #12 on:** April 18, 2003, 11:25:38 AM »

I have also found that if you leave an ACCIDENTLY road killed cat out in open or even on manure pile yotes wont go close but bury the poor kitty and they come and dig all day to excavate the critter. I usually leave just the tip (one inch or so) of tail above ground and it sure gets them in lol :grin: