Anyone use Simple Green?

[Anduril]

I don't hear much about using a soplution of Simple Green to clean BP firearms anymore.  Has anybody had a bad experience with this stuff?  It sounds safer to use in a barrel than acetic acid (vinegar).

[Triple Se7en]

Who uses vinegar? Simple Green has a water-base and water never touches my rifles. Sure soap & water will clean a normal leaded barrel, but it won't removes copper, molys, polys, plastic, primer/cap residue ... etc.

I would rather remove $1's worth of Remington Brite Bore solution out of that $6 spray can .... then sleep alot better knowing that the guns in my safe ain't slowly rotting or rusting away.

[River runner]

Not quite sure what triple 7 is trying to say, but as long as "Simple Green" is water based and is a cleaner, I don't see why it wouldn't clean BP fouling. I have yet to see any lead fouling in any of my BP guns, the only fouling I get is from the powder itself. Just plain dish detergent and water seems to get 'em pretty clean, I dry 'em out real good, and then use a non petroleum oil/grease to protect against rust. Out here it's pretty dry, and my smoke poles don't sit idle very long so rust aint a problem. Can't say as I've used Simple Green though. RR

[fredj]

I don't hear much about using a soplution of Simple Green to clean BP firearms anymore.  Has anybody had a bad experience with this stuff?  It sounds safer to use in a barrel than acetic acid (vinegar).

   The amount of acetic acid is pretty limited in Vinegar, and it's doubtless
helpful in neutralizing the Alkaline BP residues BP residue is Alkaline not acidic, strong detergents are unnecessary and counterproductive in
BP barrels and will in fact promote rust as does hot water, I realize that all this sounds counter intuitive, but these techniques are used by folks with expert long term experience and knowledge, the truth is that plain old cold water is a better solvent for BP than hot water and detergent
you don't want the steel totally degreased and you don't want the alkaline detergent residues in the steels pores and voids you just want to neutralize and remove the highly water soluable BP residue then remove any residual water with alcohol then protect your clean dry bore with
a quality petro based waxy oil like LPS 2 or 3. You don't need to use Vinegar a non ammoniated glass cleaner works well as does a dilute mixture of anti freeze and water, wet wipes, automotive windshield washer solution, go to a BPCR or LRML or ML slug gun (benchrest) match
and see what those guys are using, they have big investments in their equipment and long term expertise. Most how to BP manuals are boiler plate BS, the writers usually just accept all the normal BP BS as gospel and pass it along. It really pays to question things and  not just accept the common wisdom.
Regards fredj

[Triple Se7en]

re: River runner,

I suggest the next time you shoot your bp rifle, save your first black patch and take it to a chemist to put some of that black stuff under a microscope. If you think only black powder will be found, you're fooling yourself if you're using any of the ingredients that I listed above.

Just for the heck of it, open up the gun safe, grab your bp rifle, remove the oil from your clean bore and run a Brite Bore saturated patch on a wire brush up & down the barrel a few times. If the patch comes out pearly white, then all these solvent companies are going to go out of business because I'll start selling 4 ounce bottles of diluted Simple Green to every gun shop for 99 cents retail with a money-back guarantee. If you are using ingredients I listed above, it will show up on the patch and under a microscope.

[Gatofeo]

Been using hot water and a bar of ivory soap floating in it for over 30 years as a black powder cleaner.
Never had a problem with rust, that wasn't directly my fault and not the fault of the water or soap (failing to dry a part properly and so on).
I think people get too wrapped up in black powder solvents.
I don't allow plastic, copper and all that other crap in my bore. Just patches, lead, felt wads and black powder.
I've tried cold water and soap for cleaning. It's useless.
All the natural greases and oils I use (tallow, beeswax, olive oil) clump up and float on top, leaving crud all over the revolver or rear of rifle barrel (Hawken type, removable).
These greases and oils don't get dissolved into cold, soapy water as easily as with hot, soapy water.
For about 15 years or more I've been reading about the prohibition against hot water. I don't buy it. My experience hasn't shown it's equal or anywhere as good as hot, soapy water.
I keep a small spray bottle of soapy water in my rifle and cap and ball revolver kits to swab barrels and cylinder pins between shots. That's all I use it for.

[River runner]

Triple, Now I catch your drift, you're using the sabots, and the copper jacketed bullets, and that other modern stuff, poly, etc.. My BP rifles get only pure lead, the balls are patched, and the conicals are well lubed. I admit, I did try the sabots in my .54, and ended up using conventional methods to get the melted plastic out, a real pain.

I shoot a lot of CAS, using BP exclusively, and was using wheel weights for cast bullets; I noted a lot of leading, to the point where I consulted a couple of gunsmiths. Even had one open the forcing cones on my pistols, as I was too bullheaded to listen to what they told me, "the lead was too hard". After I started using pure lead, the leading went away, I know it don't make much sense, but that's the way it is.

I agree soap and water won't get the lead out, but it does break down the fouling. As fredj said, just plain old water will break down the fouling, the soap, like the window cleaner, and other concoctions seem to speed up the cleaning process some.

I believe from my 30+ years of messing with the holy black, the key to keeping the arm in good shape, is after cleaning it, it's important to make sure it is thoroughly dry, then grease 'er down till next time. Granted if you ran some modern solvent on a patch down one of my BP arms, I'm sure it wouldn't come out lily white, but try the same thing with a smokeless arm and you'll find the same thing after brushing with a bronze brush. What ya won't find is rust on any of my guns. Didn't mean to get so windy. RR

[Thomas Krupinski]

To answer the original question, I use Simple Green as a bore cleaner and as a patch lube.  Works very well for cleaning out the fouling.  

Shoot traditional sidelocks with black powder (not substitutes) and patched round ball and Bore Butter lubed Lee REALS, T/C Maxiballs and Maxihunters.

[pinduck]

Simple green works great as a degreaser for cleaning parts after disassembley of semi-autos, if you have ever seen the Glock armourers video they specifically name it for use,wash off with water and dry thourghly, then lightly oil. For Black Powder I have used hot soapy water for about 40 vears now and have never had any problems with rusting. But as they say its your weapon use whatever you want, thats what I will do. :grin:

[Triple Se7en]

On a closing note....

.... in regards to all of you who clean with water, afterwards run a patch or two of rubbing alcohol down the bore to remove any remnants of water.  Then run two dry patchs... then oil the rifle and put it to bed.

Also, that Brite Bore that I mentioned above should be used to clean your breechplugs & nipples when using in-lines with those oversized 209 primers. Burnt residue from those caps will very slowly erode & clog up your nipple & breechplug if you're cleaning them with standard solvents.

Theragram Vitamins usually sells their vitamins in a 2-pack... one big bottle and one small one wrapped together. I use the small one to clean my nipple & 209 breechplug.... it fits perfectly. I soak them in a solution prior to cleaning my gun.... then when I'm done, I give that small vitamin bottle a wrist-rattlin' shaking for a minute or two. I empty it, half-fill the vitamin bottle with rubbing alcohol -- shake it & empty it.... then put the muzzle of my wife's hair dryer over the bottle opening and run it on hot for a minute.

I store my bp rifles on half-cock trigger to keep air flowing in the barrel and upside-down (muzzle-down) so oil never seeps into my breechplug. I never have to shoot blank caps before loading and never had a misfire on days without heavy rains or heavy snow.

[fredj]

Also, that Brite Bore that I mentioned above should be used to clean your breechplugs & nipples when using in-lines with those oversized 209 primers. Burnt residue from those caps will very slowly erode & clog up your nipple & breechplug if you're cleaning them with standard solvents. .

777-Not to be contentious but virtually all modern primers and caps are non corrosive the erosion is from hot gases flowing through. It's not a
bad idea to clean them, and the face of the breechplug definately needs to be cleaned.
Regards fredj

[msmith]

I use just plain, cool water to clean my patch/roundball guns. I use wet patches till one comes out clean, then dry ones till one comes out completely dry, then lube well with rendered beef suit. No muss, no fuss, no rust.

Note: Do not have a coned breech plug. With a coned breech plug, I do the same only scrub the breech with a .22 cal bore brush wrapped with a wet patch.

[lakelarish]

What I have found that works very well for removing rust, dirt and grime is a scrubbing pad called "chore boy" make sure it is for copper. It does not remove any of the blueing that may solvents due.  If you get any other type it will harm the blueing.

This trick has been with my family for many years and everyone in the family uses it.

lakelarish

[Virginia Yank]

At the risk of offending virtually everyone, I use OXYCLEAN in warm water.  Very little scrubbing is required to clean up the fouling.  I then rinse with hot water and blow dry the barrel with compressed air.  After that a couple of alcohol patches topped off with WD-40.

[savageT]

At the risk of offending virtually everyone, I use OXYCLEAN in warm water.  Very little scrubbing is required to clean up the fouling.  I then rinse with hot water and blow dry the barrel with compressed air.  After that a couple of alcohol patches topped off with WD-40.

If I may......Please, oh please get rid of the WD-40!  Try LPS-2 or my favorite is Ballistol Lube (used in Europe for many years).  I'm sure fredj will have something to offer.

[daddywpb]

I use Powerbelts and Pyrodex pellets in my T/C Omega, and have never had any plastic fouling. I bought some plastic fouling remover (smells like ammonia to me), and ran some down the bore, but nothing ever came out on the patches so I don't bother with it anymore. As for rust, I've always done the final cleaning with the breech sitting in a little boiling (almost) water. The patches heat up the barrel and it dries by itself in just a few minutes. I've never tried any of the black powder solvents - hot water and Joy has always worked just fine. Obviously everything has to be wiped down with light oil after a gun barrel has been in water. A patch with a little WD40 at the very end, and I'm done. Hint: I learned the hard way about tightening breech plugs too much. Just hand tight is enough!