.45-70 performance question

[throttleman]

Hello Veral,

My question is regarding the .45-70 and its wounding ability.  When I use your formula for a .360 meplat at 1400 fps, the resulting number is 126.  According to your formula, that is nearly optimum, correct?  If that is the case, there is no benefit to higher speed, correct?  If so, where is all the hype coming from regarding higher speed for larger animals?  Is the above number (126) not ideal for elk, moose etc...as well as any other critter?  I'm looking at this from a short range perspective (150 yards).

Thanks in advance for your reply,

Jeff 

P.S.  Do you sell cast bullets, or just the molds?  I have a T/C Contender for which I reload.  Could you recommend a bullet/load for deer?

[Scott T]

Jeff,

Beyond a certain point, you are correct, you are gaining nothing but flatter trajectory.  Now, you can get the velocity up to the point where you will see more action on target, but your shoulder will bear the punishment.

Let's do a little testing here.  My .45-70 black powder loads feature a Lyman Govt bullet that drops from the mold at about 522gr at 30-1 lead to tin.  A soft bullet, to be sure, so we don't want to push it so fast that it comes apart.  Fortunately, my Shiloh shoots it at just over 1100fps.

"Why!  That's a wimpy load!" you might say.  However, with wet newspaper tightly packed together, it penetrated in a straight line 65 inches and buried itself to the base in the 2x8 that backed the stack.  Pretty impressive for a wimpy load.

Get your bullet weight up over 400gr and get your velocity up over 1200fps and, if you have one of Veral's designs, there is nothing you cannot take that walks this earth. 

Now Veral can make you a mold that throws a bullet that will really put the smack down on them and his molds generally will work with tougher alloys, like wheelweights.  You can push them a lot harder.

[Scott T]

After penetrating 65 inches of wet newspaper, you can see the base buried in the 2X8.



Here is one that made it through all that paper and the 2X8 and then bounced off the slanted 2X8.  You can see that it held together well, which probably explains the penetration.  It was shot in my buddy Jim Riggs' rifle his has a 30 inch barrel and probably shot it a bit faster than my 26 inch.
 

[R J Talley]

Veral has made me two moulds for the 45-90 and I bought another a month or so ago off of ebay. Two of them are LFNs the third, was a bore-rider with a gently pointed ogive that I requested for BP. Two are in the 520 grain range and the bore rider is a 540 grain bullet. Two mic at .459 dropped from the mould and the one from ebay drops at .460. All three are wickedly accurate from my guns. The .460 bullet shot into 2" at 100 yards from an old 1873 Trapdoor using 22 grains of AA5744. No other bullet had been able to group on the target let alone so tightly. This is an LFN design.

Any one of these bullets will take down the largest North American game with one shot. They all have tremendous penetration and the LFNs are bone breakers as well.  Hitting an animal with one of these has an effect similar to hitting a human with a school bus.

[Veral]

  I believe you have your answer Throttleman, and there is only a little that I can add, this regarding roundnose or pointed bullets on game.

  A senior gent who had killed around 50 deer with his 45-70 using the 500 gr Lyman round nose bullets, told me that never had one gone down in it's tracks or even close to where it was hit.  The wound was tiny and the animals fell at least 100 yards from where they were hit.

  I cut him a 500 gr WFN as he was hard headed about 500 gr being important, which it isn't.  He called me shortly after and asked.  What's happening!  That bullet blew a hole the size of a 50 cent piece  straight through and the deer dropped in it's tracks! - He has repeated that scene every year since.  His load produces about 1400 fps.  If the bullet weighed as little as 350 gr he whouldn't know the difference except in more enjoyable recoil.