Author Topic: .41 mag vs .357 Mag (Read 1820 times)

Litefoot · « **on:** April 03, 2003, 06:58:25 PM »

Please forgive me for beating this subject into the ground, but I really value your input. I had just about decided on a .41 mag as a backwoods sidearm for critters up to black bear. I know about the dubious merits of any firearm on a charging animal. But what about a .357 with hard cast bullets. I'd have the advantage of 7 instead of 5 rounds (.41 Mag) and I could get lots of pain-free (physical and financial) practice using .38 spcl ammo. Am I going to be seriously under-gunned with a .357 using 185 gr hard cast bullets? Wadya think? I don't hand load so I don't think I could afford to get proficient with a .41 mag. Thanks again.

Robert357 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 03, 2003, 07:20:12 PM »

When I go into the back country without a rifle, my prime form of defense is common sense. My back up is a 357 mag handloaded with a +P hot load of Aliant 2400 powder and either 158 gr or 180 gr semi-jacketed flatpoint bullets.

Up until recently it was illegal to hunt bear and deer in this state with a 357 Mag, but it was legal with a 41 mag. The 41 Mag has more stopping power, but I can practice my marksmanship a lot more with my 357 Mag. Shot placement is more important in my book that a slight inrease in power.

All the black bears I have every seen took off at a dead run when they saw me. Oh course I have gone out of my way on a few ocasions to make sure I didn't sneak up on any.

jhm · « **Reply #2 on:** April 04, 2003, 03:30:58 AM »

Litefoot: If you are going to limit yourself to a single handgun the 357 is a excellent choice, by the way the only bears I have ever seen in the woods were when I was actually HUNTING them lucky I guess but I would be vary comfortable with a 357 that I knew I was capable of shooting.

JIM

JohnK · « **Reply #3 on:** April 04, 2003, 04:48:59 AM »

A hot loaded hard cast 357, something like the original 357 load, will shoot through a black bear. As long as you can put the bullets where they need to go it should do the job for you.

I'd go with a 173gr Keith style LSWC. You can easily push that to 1,400 fps in a 4" GP100 or 686, that's plenty for this task and not difficult to shoot.

dakotashooter2 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 04, 2003, 05:06:47 AM »

While I am a 41 fan, bigger is only better if you can hit your target. If you are not and don't plan on handloading stick with the 357.

Savage · « **Reply #5 on:** April 04, 2003, 10:58:47 AM »

Any handgun is seriously underpowered for stopping a charging bear. I would throw in a pair of running shoes and climbers for my first line of defense. If you have to use the handgun you will still have the satisfaction of knowing that "I kilt the bar what kilt me". With 5 or 6 good hits he'll die in a day or so for sure!
Stay Safe,
Savage :mrgreen:

myronman3 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 04, 2003, 03:02:46 PM »

i know a guy who had a run in with a p.o.ed blackie sow and her three cubs. he caught most of it on video tape, the last 15 seconds you could hear everything going on, and then saw the sow run off. long story short, she sent her cubs up the nearest tree; which just happened to be the tree fritz was in. he video-ed the cubs going up and around him, and then the camera pans to the bottom of the tree where momma is a popping her jaws and growling. at this point the camera gets dropped and he draws his only gun, a 22 revolver. you then hear two shots and then see momma bear run off and the video ends. i asked him what he did then and he said "i got the hell out of there." my point is that the 22 made enough noise to remind momma what exactly she was dealing with (btw, fritz did NOT shoot momma, he just fired the gun in an attempt to scare her off). given that bit of info, my stance is that any gun beats your fingernails. but capacity wouldnt influence my decision on whether to get a 357 or 41. i have never shot a 41, but everyone says it is between a 357 and a 44 in recoil. i consider the 44 a very tolerable gun (recoil wise) and would think that a 41 wouldnt be all that hard for a beginner to shoot well. that being said, i think either would do. just my thoughts... good luck.

Savage · « **Reply #7 on:** April 04, 2003, 03:15:50 PM »

I have owned and shot a pretty good sampling of .357/.41/.44/.45 and still own a few. With good heavy loads I can't tell difference in recoil or performance between the .41--.44---.45LC. You can really tell a difference in the muzzle crack of a hot loaded .357 though! I love the .41 but the .44/.45LC have a major advantage in the number of factory loadings and bullets for reloading over the .41. In the Ruger the .45LC is hands down the most powerful with good reloads! I'm talking published reloading data and chrono verified!
Stay Safe,
Savage

crawfish · « **Reply #8 on:** April 04, 2003, 04:27:34 PM »

"I don't hand load so I don't think I could afford to get proficient with a .41 mag. " This statement just about says it all for you (bite my tongue), go with the .357

ROB · « **Reply #9 on:** April 04, 2003, 04:38:45 PM »

Litefoot, go to a gun shop and find out what it will cost to get set up to reload. I mean single stage not progressive. Make sure to use a carbide die set. See how many boxes of ammo you could buy for that amount.
Now consider this, I have loaded 100 rds. for .357 for less than $3.00. Find a bullet caster nearby or buy from the gun shop, but buy in bulk. 1,000 bullets, primers etc. are cheaper than 100. Load light loads like 3 grs. of Bullseye in .357 or an equal in .41 if that is your choice. Others here can give suggestions I'm sure. There 7,000 grains in a pound. Light loads will make your brass last. Did you do the math yet? That's a lot of shots per lb.
The late Bob Milek wrote about using a .357 on a bear hunt with dogs where he put 6 rds. in the head at point blank range and was not comfortable with the results. Mnay years ago and I don't remember the details. ROB

Savage · « **Reply #10 on:** April 05, 2003, 12:07:25 AM »

Litefoot,
If reloading is an option for you, go to www.midwayusa.com and check out the "Lee" reloading kits. They come with everything you need to reload for one caliber less compotents for about $100. You can't buy much factory ammo in any of the subject calibers for that! Doesn't take much high math to see how soon you could be shooting for pennies a shot.
Stay Safe,
Savage

safetysheriff · « **Reply #11 on:** April 06, 2003, 02:49:42 PM »

No disrespect intended; but if you call (or read) around you'll hear more negatives about Lee products than most of the others. The people on the
Speer phoneline used to be very direct about the complaints rec'd re: the use of Lee products.

Just thought you should know.

crawfish · « **Reply #12 on:** April 06, 2003, 04:58:05 PM »

No disrespect to you there safetysheriff but what else would expect from an Alliant Techsystems Company (Speer) when talking about a company (Lee) that is in direct competition with another Alliant Techsystems Company (RCBS) DUHH :wink:
I have loading equipment from just about all the makers out there, presses from Lee, Dillon, RCBS, MEC, Lyman, Forster, Wilson and some others that I can't remember just now. Have dies from all of them too and all the "stuff" that one will gather over 40 years of reloading. The Lee "stuff" will hang in there with the best of them and some things Lee makes (Factory Crimp Die) can be had no where else at any price. For the new person on a restricted budget just getting started Lee equipment mustn't be dismissed out of hand.
Just so you know I use a Lee hand priming tool almost exclusively (have a RCBS and a Sinclair too) use Lee dies just about as much as the others, just depends on which set is closest to hand, find lots of uses for the Lee dipper set. Don't count out Lee because it is cheap, cheap doesn't mean low quality where it counts. :-)

Savage · « **Reply #13 on:** April 07, 2003, 02:10:34 AM »

Safetysherrif,
As i write this, on my reloading bench there is a lot of orange, blue, green, and red. I too have been reloading since the mid 60s. and have accumulated a little of everything over the years. As Crawfish pointed out so well, one would hardly expect an endorsement of Lee equipment by Speer/RCBS. Having used equipment from just about all the major manufacurers of reloading equipment, I can say they all make a good product. Not only does Lee make a good product, they make an affordable product. I have never been dissapointed in any of their products. They have been leaders in their field with the development of new products. The reason for their success is simple; it works. It's not sexy, it's not expensive, it just works.
Stay Safe,
Savage

c mac · « **Reply #14 on:** April 07, 2003, 01:24:02 PM »

Lee dies, Lee scales, Lee perfect powder measure, Lee molds, Lee press. Beleive me when I say "if it didn't work great, I'd say so". Great stuff. Not as fancy as some of the others. You really don't need a single stage press that weights 20 lb. No frills, low cost. As you read, you can get set up for about $100. Then it will cost about $6 per 100. Do the math on how many boxes of shells that will buy you. Don't forget your friend that say. "Save me your brass". That's what it is for my .41. I think nothing of going out and shooting up 200. It's cheap! $21 per 500 215 swc carrol bullets. $18 per 1000 primers. 800 shots per lb. of powder for $16 a lb. Brass? go to the gun show. I bought 300 for $15. Have some fun. Shoot more. Am I right guys?
c mac

dakotashooter2 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 08, 2003, 05:06:49 AM »

My feeling is that while Lee products are of good quatity MOST are suited for the entry level handloader. Most loader I know have graduated to green or orange as there skills and loading demands increased. This is not to say thay they or myself do not continue to use some Lee products. I find some of their presses to be on the lite side for heavy use and have experienced a couple of problem dies. I use their hand primers but have broken several handles in the process. I by no means load at or to the level of some on this board but I still have a preferance for the "other brands"

Savage · « **Reply #16 on:** April 08, 2003, 07:53:57 AM »

Dakotashooter,
Agreed Lee makes an extensive line of entry level loaders. Agreed they are a little on the light side compared to my RCBS & Lyman presses. When I went to progressives I bought a Dillon. I found it to be too "manual" for a progressive and not as foolproof as I would like. I also hated the primer feed system. I sold the thing and went back to single stage for a couple of years, till I tried my friend's Pro 1000----. I ordered two the next day for the two pistol calibers I shoot the most. Never regretted it. Another friend just bought a Load Master. It is massive! It will load rifle calibers as well as pistol and the change over doesn't cost as much as a new press! (like the blue ones do) I'll keep my single stage stuff for calibers I don't load frequently, but wouldn't trade my Lee progressives for any others I have tried.
Stay Safe,
Savage

Paul H · « **Reply #17 on:** April 08, 2003, 08:59:08 AM »

I would go with the 357 over the 41, but would also fee more comfortable with a 44 or 45, and pack a 480 myself, but our bears are a bit larger.

As far as getting into reloading, for ~$100, you can get a Lee anniversary kit, and a set of lee pistol dies. I started with the lee stuff, and it will make ammunition as safe, and as accurate as with more exspensive gear. As the saying goes, you don't save a penny reloading, you just shoot more! I've loaded many thousands of rounds with my Lee setup, and just got a co-worker started reloading with it.

As far as the Lee bashers, most of them seem to be RCBS fans. Personally, I think RCBS is the most over rated reloading gear out there. I use some RCBS stuff, but it is second fiddle to Redding and Forester, yet about the same cost.

Tacoma · « **Reply #18 on:** April 12, 2003, 02:24:01 PM »

I also like the .357 but why limit yourself to the .357 or .41 only? You could get similar benifiets by going w a large frame 6 round capacity .44. mag and practicing with .44 specail loads. The .44 special won't be quite as cheap as the .38 but you'll get more Umph should you need it for big critters.

1badmagnum · « **Reply #19 on:** April 23, 2003, 10:17:32 PM »

a 357 magum wheelgun will be my next purchase,buts thats because i already own a 41.
everyone owns a 357,if your not a handloader,the 357/38 will be cheaper to shoot.
If you are a handloader,we always chose the larger caliber!