Author Topic: Mel Gibson's "The Passion"  (Read 2451 times)

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Offline lgm270

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« on: September 21, 2003, 11:12:26 AM »
Does anyone have any thoughts or observations concerning the attempt of the mainstream media and other forces to suppress this depiction of the last 12 hours of Jesus?

Offline KN

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2003, 12:24:14 PM »
Considering Mel Gibbsons anti-gun views I could personally care less about anything the man does.  KN

Offline williamlayton

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2003, 04:12:19 PM »
what would you expect ? satan has no desire to have the gospel presented in any form. people, ie the media,wheather print or any other forum, who do not belong to the lord belong to satan. not all media has tried to supress. not all jewish people have tried to supress, have been offended, have felt threatened or hurt.
as for mel, i have learned he is christian and strong fundamentalist. does not bother me in the least he is anti-gun. not all christians are-some are pro. some non christians are pro-gun.
i am interested in the message--i wish everyone would see the message if for no other reason than mel gibson. the message is not solely mine-as in pull up the gangplank, i'm on board.
the story is real-far more unplesant than h'wood, censures and good taste could ever allow. the story allowed me freedom, secured my freedom and will secure freedom for all who see, or hear and believes--not in being able to answer a question--believes.
soapbox is  clear---
blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Advocate

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2003, 12:09:23 AM »
KN:  I was not aware that Gibson had anti gun views. I do remember that he was condemned by the liberal media for this American Revolutionary war movie, the Patriot, in which children were depicted as taking up arms and fighting on behalf of American independence. Liberals were outraged that he would depict children using firearms!  (They are not outraged when conventional movies and television portray children using drugs, profain language and having sex.)  

The broader issue, however, is not what Gibson does, but what is done to him and the use of Isrealite power in the media to suppress his free speech rights and those of  other Christians.

Haven't you noticed that the  so called "Wall of Separation" between church and state only seems to apply to Christians?  Amazing that Christian children cannot even say a simple prayer before a high school football game and that the 10 commandments cannot be shown in a public court house. (Did you know that a U.S. Supreme Court decison said it was constitutinally protected speech for someone to go into a court house with a shirt that said "(censored word) the Draft" and that if anyone was offended they should just  look away? "(censored word) the Draft" is protected, but "Thou shalt not kill" is not?)

Compare the harsh treatment of Christians with the fact that we're all supposed to "tolerate" Muslims and with the millions of dollars of public funds that are used to subsidize so called "Holocaust Memorials" which are nothing but  Jewish religious shrines.  Here in California the so called Simon Wiesenthal Center gets millions of dollars of taxpayer money and children are regularly bused from public schools to this palatial building with or without their parents' consent.   Did you know that Simon Wiesenthal gets a cool $75,000 a year for the right to use his name?  Spreading "tolerance" (for everything except Christianity) is a tough job, but I guess someone has to do it!


Whatever Gibson's faults may be, he has done good work in the past and his pro-Christian, pro-free speech efforts deserve to be recognized.    

Thank you for responding to my post.

Best

Offline williamlayton

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2003, 01:40:33 AM »
now i got to defend israel--kindly.
israel is gods chosen-as in picked for himself by himself for his purpose.
all of gods children will be persecuted--it will get worse--and i am not of the persuasion that believes christians will be raptured before the tribulation.
i keep thinking that we are missing the point--this life, this world is not our home-we are sojurners in a strange and alien place. i do not think we need to hang onto it as hard as we do. we are not here to make this world a better place. the lord will handle that in his own good time.
soapbox is clear
blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline lgm270

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2003, 09:07:36 AM »
"now i got to defend israel--kindly.
israel is gods chosen-as in picked for himself by himself for his purpose.
all of gods children will be persecuted--it will get worse--and i am not of the persuasion that believes christians will be raptured before the tribulation.
i keep thinking that we are missing the point--this life, this world is not our home-we are sojurners in a strange and alien place. i do not think we need to hang onto it as hard as we do. we are not here to make this world a better place. the lord will handle that in his own good time.
soapbox is clear
blessings"


"We are not here to make the world a better place".

Do you really believe that?

Were the American Founding Fathers wrong to have made the world a better place when they revolted agaisnt the British Empire and founded this country?

Was  the North wrong to have made the world a better place by abolishing slavery?

Is it wrong to use a gun to defend one's self against  criminals?

If you believe it is wrong to work to make the world a better place, as your post suggests, why do you bother to get out of bed in the morning?

Offline KN

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2003, 11:49:52 AM »
Maybe my shot at Mel Gibson was a little miss-directed. It was actually his Leathal Weapon movies that were anti-gun. They were sporting anti-NRA posters in various scenes.  KN

Offline williamlayton

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2003, 01:38:30 AM »
when i paosted "we are not here to make this world a better place"-that was exactly what i meant-please accept this n the kindest tone you can. :-)  this world, according to god is temporary--it is disentergrating--what we can do is present the messiah as the answer--men have tried and will eventually fail to make this world better--christ can and will make those who come to him, more like him-but this world will not ever be a better place---i must say that those who come to him, even the best, are sorely lacking and are in need of constant washing--i number amongst those.
blessings
ps--our founding fathers---well they were not all christian--even they failed in their attempt. judge BETTER by the best not by this world.
soapbox is empty
blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline dbuz

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2003, 09:31:08 AM »
I agree the Jews should be protected as God's chosen people. But the Scriptures clearly teach that the Jews wanted Christ killed ( Acts 4:10, Matt. 27: 21-25). They said,"Let His blood be on us, and on our children" and asked that Barabas be released instead of Jesus. Christ had to die for our sins. It was God's will before the foundations of the earth were created. There is no need for Jews to get angry about the truth. There were many Americans who supported slavery. I do not feel guilty for slavery. I did not live back in those days. All we can do is to make sure no race of people are slaves again. The Jews should make sure they don't deny Jesus again. Zechariah 12:10 and 13:6 says they won't.
If you can earn it, why did He have to die?

Offline williamlayton

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2003, 11:03:01 PM »
you are correct and god does say he has a plan for them. lordy i caint type this am. i would be good if we could see as he does, but then we would probably do much as israel did when they had the prophets-try an figure it out some other way or deny it. then thinking again, we do have the word and we make it go our way and not his.
blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline bryan

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2003, 06:26:59 PM »
If leading the LOST to the LORD isn't making the world a better place , then nothing will.
Brayn[/b]

Offline williamlayton

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2003, 11:45:11 PM »
bryan
what you said is absolutely correct. the only concern with the thought is assuming we can, ie humans, can bring this world into a position wherein all evil,ie satan, is subdued. this would mean that we could continue in this world and the lords prophecy of the anti-christ and the eventual return of the lord in final judgement was incorrect.
christ did not come to give us power to defeat satan-he did say satan was defeated-but i take that to mean in the end results. i think this is what israel was looking for in a messiah. they wanted or expected THIS world to become such a place. when christ taught differently they went into rebellion against him. denying him as the messiah.
i believe what christ in our lives does is give us the assurance of eternity with him in a place, ie the new earth, wherin the lamb will lie down with the lion, ect.
it is an interesting thought of making this world a better place. the church fell for this an up sprang humanism.
i'm hoping this explains my thought on this topic, it has certainly been interesting.
blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline williamlayton

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2003, 11:50:28 AM »
just read a great review of the passion. it was sent to me by a cuz so i do not know how or if i can find it.
was a review from the d.c. private previewing of this movie.
blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline 444encore

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2004, 05:18:49 PM »
William,
    You lost me.  Calm down, Slow down , and try this again when I'm sober. :D
More one shot kills

Offline Robert

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This is getting juicy...
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2004, 05:32:26 PM »
First off...I think God's people are those that have him in thier heart.  I HARDLY beleive the people that call themselves ISRAEL are God's people anymore.  Some of them ..that have faith in GOD..Yes.  But it cannot be genearalized who are God's people.  Jesus said, "Of these Stones shall I raise Children unto Abraham".  I think that meant...If the people God chose do not want him, then God will leave the spot open for someone else.
  But back to the point.....  I like Mel.  I certainly will not miss his movie.  Maybe he is trying to say something.  There are a lot of people in Hollyweird doing a lot of strange things...but there are also some that are accomplishing miracles in conveying good messages to us.  Just have to learn how to sort it out.
....make it count

Offline williamlayton

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2004, 09:04:38 PM »
robert-
your first paragraph was right on. I remember an interview with a man on TV a few years ago. TV reorter "are you a Christian"? Answer "H*** yes, i'm an american arn't I"!?
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Online ironglow

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2004, 02:15:53 AM »
I saw the film just last night, as I am sure many of you have. I have taught regularly and occasionally preached the Gospel message for the last 26 years. As with all Bible-believers out there who also do the same, there is much study and research involved. This study is not just Bible, but other sources...Flavius Josephus, Gibbon's decline & fall,and Biblical Archeology Review; just to cite a few.
   The depiction was accurate...although the script did not follow Scriptures word-for-word, there was no meaning lost or changed.
   The equipment and costumes were very well done and quite authentic.
The clothing of all Jewish citizenry, including the disciples, Mary, Mary Magdalene and the Christ were not spotless, well-pressed robes...nor were the Roman soldiers spic and span; but rather scruffy and poorly shaven; after all, often the poorest examples of Roman military were sent to this "backwater" posting as punishment!
   The only ones with immaculate clothes were the Pharisees...which was fitting.
   Bloody and gruesome?....absolutely; but so was the real crucifixion...so again, Gibson's script is totally accurate.
  Please note; the same folks that are condemning the "violence" in this film also praised "Saving Private Ryan", "Texas chainsaw massacre" and uttered not a peep when some films depicted a nut running around, gruesomely murdering people while wearing aaan obsolete hockey mask!
    A couple technical things that I would  have corrected:
   1. Christ was chained for much of the time...I wish Mel had come to myself or another blacksmith and gotten a hand forged chain.
   2. When Christ , on the cross said "I thirst", he was offered vinegar on a sponge (the Bible says  it was hyssop, a weed that was used as a sponge).
   3. No depiction was made of the casting lots for the seamless garment.
   4. Although the Temple was shaken and the floor split upon Jesus "giving up the ghost", there was not a good depiction of the  veil being torn in two: a very important point in my mind!

   The true passion was very evident and even though there were a few additions or corrections that "picky me" may have made, there were no
outright untruths or misrepresentations made that I noted.
  The casting,  directing, photography and story line were superb.
   I love all the "Bible Epic" pictures and have some of them on tape, to include "The Robe" , "The Ten Commandments" etc....I will definitely get this one when it comes out....it will probably be the greatest one of all...perhaps the greatest film of all time!
       Comparing the movie with the OT prophesies of Isaiah 52 and 53 and Psalm 22... Gibson has done a great job...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline williamlayton

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2004, 03:36:33 AM »
Thanx for the review--I will see the film soon.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline .308

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2004, 09:04:25 AM »
williamlayton, This is what Paul Harvey wrote after a private screening of 'The Passion' in Washington, D.C. I think it's what you spoke of. It's a bit long, but well worth reading. IMHO:

Paul Harvey's words:

 I really did not know what to expect. I was thrilled to have been
 invited to a private viewing of Mel Gibson's film "The Passion," but I had
 Also  read all the cautious articles and spin. I grew up in a Jewish town and
 owe much of my own faith journey to the influence. I have a life long,
 Deeply held aversion to anything that might even indirectly encourage any form of
 anti-Semitic thought, language or actions.

 I arrived at the private viewing for "The Passion," held in Washington, DC
 and greeted some familiar faces. The environment was typically
 Washingtonian, with people greeting you with a smile but seeming to
 look beyond you, having an agenda beyond the words. The film was very
 briefly introduced, without fanfare, and then the room darkened. From the
 gripping opening scene in the Garden of Gethsemane, to the very human and
 tender portrayal of the earthly ministry of Jesus, through the betrayal,
The arrest, the scourging, the way of the cross, the encounter with the
thieves, the surrender on the Cross, until the final scene in the empty tomb, this
 was not simply a movie; it was an encounter, unlike anything I have ever
 experienced.

 In addition to being a masterpiece of film-making and an artistic triumph,
 "The Passion" evoked more deep reflection, sorrow and emotional reaction
 within me than anything since my wedding, my ordination or the birth of my
 children. Frankly, I will never be the same. When the film concluded, this
 "invitation only" gathering of "movers and shakers" in Washington, DC were
 shaking indeed, but this time from sobbing. I am not sure there was a dry
 eye in the place. The crowd that had been glad-handing before the film was
 now eerily silent. No one could speak because words were woefully
 inadequate. We had experienced a kind of art that is a rarity in life, the
 kind that makes heaven touch earth.
 
 One scene in the film has now been forever etched in my mind. A
brutalized, wounded Jesus was soon to fall again under the weight of the cross.
 His mother had made her way along the Via Della Rosa. As she ran to him,
 she flashed back to a memory of Jesus as a child, falling in the dirt road
 outside of their home. Just as she reached to protect him from the fall,
 she was now reaching to touch his wounded adult face. Jesus looked at her
 with intensely probing and passionately loving eyes (and at all of us
 Through the screen) and said "Behold I make all things new." These are words
 taken from the last Book of the New Testament, the Book of Revelations.
 Suddenly, the purpose of the pain was so clear and the wounds, that
Earlier in the film had been so difficult to see in His face, His back, indeed all
 Over His body, became intensely beautiful. They had been borne voluntarily for
 love.

 At the end of the film, after we had all had a chance to recover, a
Question and answer period ensued. The unanimous praise for the film, from a rather
 diverse crowd, was as astounding as the compliments were effusive. The
 questions included the one question that seems to follow this film, even
 though it has not yet even been released. "Why is this film considered by
 some to be 'anti-Semitic?" Frankly, having now experienced (you do not
 "view" this film) "the Passion" it is a question that is impossible to
 answer.

 A law professor whom I admire sat in front of me. He raised his hand
 and responded "After watching this film, I do not understand how anyone
can insinuate that it even remotely presents that the Jews killed Jesus. It
 doesn't." He continued "It made me realize that my sins killed Jesus."
 I agree. There is not a scintilla of anti-Semitism to be found anywhere in
 this powerful film. If there were, I would be among the first to decry it.
 It faithfully tells the Gospel story in a dramatically beautiful,
sensitive and profoundly engaging way. Those who are alleging otherwise have
 either not seen the film or have another agenda behind their
protestations.

 This is not a "Christian" film, in the sense that it will appeal only to
 those who identify themselves as followers of Jesus Christ. It is a deeply
 human, beautiful story that will deeply touch all men and women. It is a profound
 work of art. Yes, its producer is a Catholic Christian and thankfully has
 remained faithful to the Gospel text; if that is no longer acceptable
 behavior than we are all in trouble. History demands that we remain
 faithful to the story and Christians have a right to tell it. After all,
 we believe that it is the greatest story ever told and that its message is for all
 men and women. The greatest right is the right to hear the truth.

 We would all be well advised to remember that the Gospel narratives
 to which "The Passion" is so faithful were written by Jewish men who
 followed a Jewish Rabbi whose life and teaching have forever changed the history
 of the world. The problem is not the message but those who have distorted
 it and used it for hate rather than love. The solution is not to censor the
 message, but rather to promote the kind of gift of love that is Mel
 Gibson's filmmaking masterpiece, "The Passion." It should be seen by as many
 people as possible. I intend to do everything I can to make sure that is
 the case.

 I am passionate about "The Passion."

 Please copy this and send it on to all your friends to let them know about
 this film so that all go see it when it comes out.

 Mel Gilbson stated he did not appear in his own movie, by his choice, with
 one exception: It is Gibson's hands seen nailing Jesus to the cross.  Gibson said he
 wanted to do that because it was indeed his own hands that nailed Jesus to the
 cross (along with all of ours.)

Offline handirifle

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2004, 09:14:37 AM »
Hi all,
Just found this post and am glad I did.  I cannot sit quietly on this.

I have read you posts and agree with nearly all (do we ever agree 100%).   On the points of Mel and Gun control, I really don't care where he stands cause this film is about much bigger things than gun control :grin: .  Like it or not, I believe we will someday lose them all anyway :( .  

As was mentioned, this film, and our purpose as Christians is not really to make this world a better place, Satan has assured us that it will only get worse.  For the scriptures tell us that men will call good evil and evil good.  Look at all the media hypes of the Gay marriages here in CA.  Many are praising this as good.  Rosie is the latest and they are acting like it's a great event.  It IS a great example of men calling evil, good.

If bringing others to Christ makes this world a better place for them then that is icing on the cake, the real purpose is for their life after this one.  But many Christians have suffered and died for their beliefs and I hardly call that making it better for them, at least here.

We are called to help others and love others and that will make their and our world better, but make no mistake, the world at large is and will get far worse.

As to the question of Pre or Post Trib, I guess we'll all have to wait and see.  If we go Pre then so much the better, if we go post then I pray our faith is secure enough to withstand the tribulations we will endure.

I have tickets for Mel's movie for Sat and look forward to it.  I must say I'm not suprised to hear the ripping of the veil was not made clearer, after all it was to send a message that the temple is now open to ALL who believe and that Christ is the only priest we need to go through for interscession.

Yes the Jews are STILL his chosen people, why not?  What have the Jews done that we have not?  So someone takes advantage of the system, it doesn't mean that he condems all his people because of it.  The scriptures are very clear how God feels about the Jews and they will get another chance to repent.  Is Christianity singled out in this country?  I say YES with a hearty grin.  Praise God WE have been found worthy to suffer for His namesake.  Let us keep it in perspective, it is not us personally they persecute but Christ.  Remember (Saul) Paul on the road to Damascus, when he was blinded?  When he asked who his tormentor was, the answer was it is Jesus whom you persecute.  Saul was not dragging Jews to be tortured because on their acts but because he was attacking the Christ himself and Jesus knew this.  The same holds true today.  Christianity is THE most discriminated religion in the worlk, with the possible exception of the Jews and it is all because we worship the same God.  For that I give thanks and praise.

The soap box is clear, thanks for allowing me the time.
God, Family, and guns, in that order!

Online ironglow

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2004, 08:24:06 PM »
Handirifle;
   You are right on in your whole post! You explained it very well.
     Obviously you are completely familiar with Scriptures & doctrine...
   The statement about the veil not be well shown as having been torn completely through gave you the opportunity to demonstrate it!
   You finished the explanation that I was hesitant to finish, and was completely correct when you did..great!
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Robert

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I just saw it last night....
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2004, 06:24:51 AM »
It was not anti semetitic. it simply stuck to what is written in the bible, with a few exceptions.  As someone else said there were some things missing, and some things added for theatrics...like the bug crawling in and out of the guys nose...the scarey monster in the prison, and it DID GO ON & ON & ON to the point that it was possibly overkill on gore, or possibly just that I did not want to see his suffering anymore.  All in All, it made me feel insignificant, I am NO BIG DEAL.  The things I have done in my life are NO BIG DEAL, even though we think we are unique.  The War in Iraq is NO BIG DEAL.  Paying my bills is NO BIG DEAL.  The line is being drawn in the sand.
  The bible say's , when we see clouds coming we know it will rain....
As far as I am concerned....It is time to ask what side I am on.
....make it count

Offline dodgecity

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2004, 06:53:54 PM »
I viewed "The Passion Of The Christ" in a theatre that was filled to capacity, and yet, the film was so gripping that I was unaware of the presence of anyone else. There was not a sound from the audience throughout the film, and when it was over, we all filed out in a reverent silence. The scenes from that movie will, I am sure, come flooding back to me every time I take communion for the rest of my life. No Christian should miss this movie.

Offline Specklebelly

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2004, 07:48:34 AM »
dodgecity

I agree but would also like to add that all Non-Christians should see the movie as well.  I think lives would be dedicated to Christ afterwards.
Specklebelly

Romans 5:8
Mark 12:28-31

Offline handirifle

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2004, 05:39:28 PM »
ironglow
Thanks but I'll never be "completely" familiar with the scriptures, but that give me a worthy goal.

Specklebelly, I agree with you 100% and I think that was mel's purpose as well.

There is a good discussion on this topic here as well

http://www.bellmtcs.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=24&t=962&s=303c23cdbc3d79e306bee2940be0f57a
God, Family, and guns, in that order!

Offline henry

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2004, 05:57:38 PM »
I got to say that as far as mel gibson movies that the patriot and braveheart stirred more emotion in me than this passion movie.  I don't understand why Jesus had to die for our sins.  He took that beating on his own accord because it was his fathers will.  This dont make sense because the bible says that jesus was god with us.  Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the father because i and the father are one.  If jesus was god then who did he pray to?  The bible wants us to be perfect as our father in heaven is perfect , even bringing every thought into submission.  Tell me who can do this.  The churches scream JN 3:16 that all you got to do is believe.  Yea and in james it says that the devils believe and they tremble.  THE DEVILS BELIVE so I guess they are saved to.  No they are going to hell with the multitudes.  the bible says multitudes will be deceived and perish.  WHo are the multitudes.  If you go to church they say they are all saved.  Then who is going to hell and burn Forever?  Bad people?  What if they believe?  Then they won't perish they will have everlasting life....all you got to do is believe...right thats what jn 3 16 says.  The fact is that no body is perfect and will not be.  The bible says put all anger away from you yet jesus was angry and turned over the money changers tables.  Do as I say and not as I do should be in the bible.  I think it would be much simpler to abstain from meats and sit around and do nothing on the sabbath instead of now we have to strive to be perfect.  I being carnal and having a son was thinking the other day about what if my son made me really mad.  I thought of some senarios that would make me want to beat him.  Then I thought of some senarios that would make me even want to kill him.  But I COULD NOT think of anything that would make me so mad that I would want to throw him into a pit full of fire and devils to burn and suffer FOREVER.  This is like the cruelest punishment one could ever have, this is like something Hitler would think up yet it comes from our LOVING god.  Our god who is to represent love.  There is something wrong with this picture.  It is like the bible says that god knew us before the foundation of the earth and so then he knows who is going to hell and heaven also.  Why did he even bother creating hell bound people.  God is not perfect either because he created us and we are far from perfect.  Look at all the religions in the world and all the suffering.  All the religions are pointing thier fingers saying we are right and they are wrong.  And good people that I know are suffering.  We pray and pray hoping and hoping but to no avail.  It seems like god it just sitting up there telling satan to sick'em sick'em  get'em boy tear'em up make them suffer with sickness make them die in pain and agony take thier loved ones away from them, give them no peace, put depression on them, MAKE THEM PAY!  Is it not true that satan could not get to Job because god protected him with a hedge?  Well then if you are being bothered by satan and his followers then it is because god is allowing it then.  God has removed your hedge, ha ha and now your going to pay, just like Job. who was a righteous man.  It was like god was making a bet or showing off to satan when he said, consider my servant Job.  I know I am rambling but I am angry and now see the bible with different eyes than before.  I guess I am the bad seed that fell to the wayside or was choked out by the thorns or something.  Created to go to hell cause I cant be perfect or pass the tests from such a loving god who wants to damn me into eternal fire.  Yea who am i to question god.  nobody, just another pawn who desires to be free.  but the truth shall set you free and at the same time it makes you a slave to a angry hating god.  behold i stand at the door and knock.  more like he beats with a angry fist and as soon as you let him in you will be condemed into fire because you will never meet his expectations.  oh you can fool yourself into thinking you are ok and ignore all the harsh verses and have your ears tickled by your hireling preacher but you could also end up just hearing the words "Depart from me you worker of iniquity for i never knew you".  Ain't them bueatiful words to hear after you tried your damedest to make it  and please him?    I guess i learned that jesus took a beating and now he wants his revenge and now its our turn and the whip is in satans hand and god is allowing it to happen, theres no place to run and nothing you can do..you cant even pray because god will not hear the prayers of the sinner.. so for this life, take your beating, die, and go to hell and burn.

Offline everglades1

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Henry
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2004, 12:19:12 PM »
You seem to be really disenchanted with the way God has worked things out.  It seems like you think you have a better idea. Lets say we hypothetically appoint you as God at this time, and you can decide to do things your way.  Declare that there would be no more evil and suffering in the world!    Congratulations, you have just wiped out all of humanity.  You would have to get rid of all evil including those having the potential for evil.  That means all of us.  Of course He could have made us as loving robots who are programmed to Love God all the time, but is that true love?  Could you command a women to love you always because you gave her a ring, and think that it truly is genuine love.  I don't think so.  Only if you give people a choice, to either love you or not to love you.  The ones who do, show genuine love, not robotic love.  The ones who don't, You spend their entire lives trying to get them to change their mind by doing such radical things as sacrificing Your own Son because You realize that no can be good enough or measure up to Your rules or expectations.  You give them a way out, a free gift called salvation "Choice." They either choose to believe You or they don't, any way its their choice, not Yours.  You keep trying to get their attention by sending people into their lives to remind them of the free gift (Christ dying on the cross for our sins), and by making movies like the Passion.  You put circumstances in their life to get their attention, hardship, suffering, divorce etc.  You wait patiently all their lives with your arms stretched out to embrace them like the father of the prodigal son.  You even put very clear verses in the bible that state that we are all sinners in this lifetime and that we can't be good enough or do enough good works to get to heaven.  You state that if we only confess our sins You will be faithful to forgive them, how many times???? up to seven times, no seventy times seven, which I might add is implied to be with in a 24 hour period.  That is a lot of forgiveness every day.  Only because when You looks at them, You don't see their sin, but the blood of Your Son covering them, which paid the price in full for every sin they ever committed and will ever commit.  Finally they choose to ignore all Your warnings and commit the only unforgivable sin, the one of unbelief.  They choose to go to a place separate from You, since they wanted nothing to do with You during their life time why would they want to have anything to do with You in the next lifetime.  They are sent to a place which the bible says was prepared for the Devil and his angels not for them. The Devil and his angels knew Jesus was the Son of GOD, they just didn't KNOW Him, neither did the choose to worship him.  Christ said you will know my disciples because they will show love for one another.  Do the vast majority of the people in this world do this?  He said a good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit and is cut down and thrown into the fire. The good fruit is the fruit of the spirit...love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control.  Do the vast majority of the people in this world show these fruits?  I don't think it is too difficult to figure out who will dwell in the house of the LORD forever.  You obviously have read the bible, I just pray you will be able to discern the things you read with a spiritual understanding, otherwise it will always just be foolishness to you.[/b]

Offline williamlayton

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2004, 03:26:50 AM »
I have been putting off posting as I will have to share some things, bare my soul, if you will, and run the risk of being misunderstood. I will do this and hope it is clear enough.
Henry has some thoughts which he was honest enough to share and I am not sure that I can calm him in his torment, I am not sure torment is a good description but it is the best description I have.
I was raised in the church, heard all the words, understood all the rules, had the the formula down pat. I wanted forgivness for my sins and was Baptised.
It was later in life when the Lord began dealing with me. I thought I knew the answer and was Baptised again.
Later in life, a few years, events began to bother me again and I questioned myself.
In some manner, which to this day I can not fathom, The Lord began to show me the entanglement of my thoughts. To say that I had trusted in a ceremony, a formula would not be a very good description of the thought, but that is the best I can do.
I came to the realization that the Lord, ie salvation was not a formula, it was a personal, very pesonal encounter. This encounter could not be provided by a formula or a ceremony. It had to be an encounter with him, I suspect much as Paul's encounter, led by him for me to come to him. I had to put away any hope of fullfilling any ritual to be known by him. I began to understand what Peter was trying to say when he stated that I had to work out my salvation. I had to come to some place of understanding [that] my salvation was a personal thing. I sat on the back poarch and asked the Lord if I was his. I reminded him that I knew he would not lie. I told him I was fearfull of his answer. I needed an answer, whatever the answer was. I wanted to know what to do, if in fact I could do anything.
The years of self doubt, the years of torment, now I must say that those years were agonizing, fearfull, allowed by the Lord for a purpose I could not comprhend. That morning brought about a quiet, though clear understanding, that the Lord knew me and that I was his. To say the Lord spoke to me is absolutely correct--well to me he spoke, I will not try to convience you as I can't. I can tell you, with all honesty, that from that moment I have relied on that encounter and the peace it brought.
I have failed, have been repremanded, have been chastised, have repented, have cried, have hated myself,--have never been fearful of not being his.
When watching the movie I was not moved. The scrouging was not moving. At times I wondered if I was dead or a least was I hardned. I knew that no movie could accurately depict the cruelty Christ Jesus suffered for just MY sins let alone the sins of the world. Pain? I cannot fathom the pain.
Relationships are personal, undefinable. This relationship is the most personal relationship I can have, ever.
Remember, I told you it would be misunderstood. Do not search for the same in your relationship. It has to be personal. It is not a formula or ritual.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline ernon

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Re: Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2004, 01:36:38 PM »
Quote from: lgm270
Does anyone have any thoughts or observations concerning the attempt of the mainstream media and other forces to suppress this depiction of the last 12 hours of Jesus?


It made more people want to see the movie. Personally, I would have liked a movie that focused on His ministry. I think that would have been more uplifting.

Ernon

Offline GuntherII

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Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2004, 06:52:52 AM »
Where to start? Mel did a pretty good job on this, yes there were errors such as the scourging. It was pretty mild to what really happened. It wasn't anti-sematic in fact the "let this be upon our heads and childrens heads." (to paraphrase was left out) Christ was historically proven, not just with the Bible itself but with Jewish and Roman history. This happened no doubt. The only thing people can argue was He really God. Myself I believe He was and is.
 
I believe that at least some of the San Hedron also knew. These were smart studied people and had to know the prophesy inside out. The reason they denied Him was because if people thought He was THE CHRIST they were no longer powerful because EVERYBODY would be on equal terms in the eyes of God the Father. Christ was the mediator, what would the Levites be good for then? When God promised Abraham his descendents would be as grains of sand he wasn't talking about israel alone. This included the Christians as we now know them.  
 
Trying to remember other points brought up by folks here, and yes I have an opinion on everything.
 
Rapture/The Catching Up.
 
It will happen and woe to those who remain. You don't have to be a good guy to go, just a believing one. Ol' David sure wasn't the nicest feller in the history of the world but he was mostly obedient. Guess this might say it better than I can.
 
 After living a "decent" life, my time on earth came to an end.  The
> > first thing I remember is sitting on a bench in the waiting room of what
> > I thought to be a court house.  The doors opened and I was instructed to
> > come in and have a seat at the
> >     defense table.  I looked around and saw the "Prosecutor."  He was a
> > villainous looking gent who snarled as he stared at me; definitely was
> > the most evil person I'd ever seen.
> >
> >     I sat down and looked to my left and there sat my lawyer, a kind and
> > gentle looking man whose appearance seemed familiar.
> >
> >     The corner door flew open and there appeared the judge in full
> > flowing robes.  He commanded an awesome presence as he moved across the
> > room.  I couldn't take my eyes off of him.  As he took his seat behind
> > the bench, he said , "Let us begin."
> >
> >     The prosecutor rose.  "My name is Satan and I'm here to show you why
> > this man belongs in hell."  He proceeded to tell of lies I had told,
> > things I had stolen, when I cheated people, and was rude and thoughtless
> > to others.  Satan told of other horrible perversions that were once in
> > my life and  the more he spoke, the further down in my seat I sank.  I
> > was so embarrassed that I couldn't look at anyone, not even my own
> > lawyer, as the Devil told of sins that even I had completely forgotten
> > about.
> >
> >     As upset as I was at Satan for telling all these things about me, I
> > was equally upset at my representative, who sat there silently not
> > offering any form of defense at all.  I knew I was guilty of those
> > things, but I had done some good in my life -- couldn't that at least
> > equal out part of all the harm I had done?
> >
> >     Satan finished with a fury and said, "This man belongs in hell.  He
> > is guilty of all that I have charged and there is not a person who can
> > prove otherwise."
> >
> >     When it was his turn, my lawyer first asked if he might approach the
> > bench.  The judge allowed this over the strong objection of Satan, and
> > beckoned him to come forward.
> >
> >     As he got up and started walking, I was able to see him in his full
> > splendor and majesty. I realized why he seemed so familiar.  This was
> > Jesus representing me, my Lord and my Savior.  He stopped at the bench
> > and softly said to the judge, "Hi Dad," and then he turned to address
> > the court.
> >
> >     "Satan was correct in saying that this man has sinned.  I won't deny
> > any of these allegations.  And, yes, the wages of sin is death, and this
> > man deserves to be punished."  Jesus took a deep breath and turned to
> > his Father with outstretched arms and proclaimed, "However, I died on
> > the cross so that this person might have eternal life and he has
> > accepted me as his Savior, so he is mine."
> >
> >     My Lord continued with, "His name is written in the Book of Life and
> > no one can snatch him from me.  Yet Satan still does not understand.
> > This man is not to be given justice. . . But rather mercy."
> >
> >     As Jesus sat down, He quietly paused, looked at His Father and
> > replied, "There is nothing else that needs to be done.  I have done it
> > all."
> >
> >     The judge lifted His mighty hand and slammed the gavel down.  The
> > following words bellowed from his lips. . . . "This man is free.  "The
> > penalty for him has already been paid in full.  "Case dismissed."
> >
> >     As my Lord led me away, I could hear Satan ranting and raving, "I
> > won't give up; I'll win the next one. "
> >
> >     I asked Jesus as He gave me my instructions where to go next, "Have
> > you ever lost a case?"
> >
> >     Christ lovingly smiled and said, "Everyone who has come to me and
> > asked me to represent them has received the same verdict as you just
> > received: Paid in Full."