knife fighting

[covertcowboy]

hey y'all i've been reading your forums for a while and have learned a lot. i really apreciate it. so here is my first question:

What do y'all know (or not know) about nuetralizing the threat from a knife quickly, quietly, and effectivly?

gotta be some Military or Ex-Military out there

[Win 73]

My .45 might not be very quiet, but I think it would be fairly effective.

[257 roberts]

What Win73 said.

[Qaz]

Cowboy, don't let anyone fool you, there is no quick and quiet way to do it. The martial arts as well as all self defence training  rely on practiceing until the movements are second nature. To be honest if you have not been in a lot of hand to hand combat, you will more than likely come out on the wrong end of that knife. Walk away, and if forced into it, do the best you can.

[XD9]

In the words of Mr. Miagi, "Wax on, Wax off...Wax on, Wax off..."   

Hey, it helped the karate kid!

(sorry, couldn't resist...)

[Mikey]

Cowboy - you are either a skilled knife fighter or you are a wounded victim, period.  You are either highly trained and practice continually or you get multiple stitches or worse - an autopsy. 

Qaz had it right - walk away if you can.  If not, do as Win73 suggested - it might not be quiet but it may keep you alive. 

As one cop show provided once - if he uses his fist, use your billyclub.  If he uses a knife, use your gun. 

Knives kill and wound far more people every year than guns do.  Knives are a preferred weapon of choice - silent and effective, even the smaller ones.  Don't kid yourself that a short bladed knife won't slice you into chutney, because it will. 

Man developed guns as an evolution to extending his effective reach over other hand-help weapons (knife), so you should consider doing the same with your gun and extending your ability to defend yourself. 

I would never go bare-handed (again) against a knife weilding opponent.  I was lucky once.  The next time I used a gun to defend myself and even then the idiot didn't think I would use it, which was his fatal mistake.  And don't kid yourself, it doesn't have to be a switchblade, stilleto or lock-back folder - many, many times it is just a long bladed kitchen knife and they will do a horrendous job on a human - why not, they are designed to cut. 

Years agao I sold (or tried to) cutlery as a means to get some extra $ for school.  We were having a terrible time trying to sell this stuff in a 'minority' neighborhood.  I lucked out - I knocked on a door and showed this lady what I was selling and her first response was - 'can you throw that one?'.  I let her heft it, and she turned and threw it and buried it in a door - then she told me to wait a minute and called all her girlfirends to come over and try it and I sold 14 of then that day - that was the only sale we had.  The point here is that many, many peole really do know how effective a knife can be and those of us who prefer handguns should realize this and be prepared to defend ourselves against them.

BTW - you should realize that a man with a knife can close a distance of 10 yds and strike twice in 1.5 seconds - the same time it takes for a 'trained' handgunner/leo to draw and fire two rounds.  This is referred to as the Thueller Drill (spelling??), and it is right on.  HTH.  Mikey.

[rockbilly]

Many years of experience has taught me to be more cautious of a person with a knife than those with a gun.  It has been my experience that when a person pulls a knife, they will cut you.  A person may pull a gun, and then have thoughts about using it, not so with a blade.

Years ago, while in training to become a cop I was riding shotgun on patrol one night, we were called to a bad area of town, "fight in progress,"  when we arrived I witnessed a fight the likes of which I hope I never see again.  A little skinny black man was fighting with a very large woman, he had a straight razor, she had an ice pick.  He would slice her, laying the flesh wide open, she would bury the ice pick in him, the whole area was covered with blood.  The witnesses were shouting for us to break it up, but we could do nothing, after all, who wants to step between two persons like this?  I don't know how it can be done without getting hurt yourself, we just let them fight to the finish.  He died at the scene, she died on the way to the hospital.

Since that time I have a fear of blades, I am afraid of being cutl, so if a person pulls a knife they will be looking down the barrel of my Sig.  I think I can defuse a bad situation with a couple of well placed 240 gr .45 slugs.

[covertcowboy]

Win 73-
RE:
My .45 might not be very quiet, but I think it would be fairly effective

- I have also heard rumors to that effect...


Mikey-
RE:
Cowboy - you are either a skilled knife fighter or you are a wounded victim, period.  You are either highly trained and practice continually or you get multiple stitches or worse - an autopsy. 

Qaz had it right - walk away if you can.  If not, do as Win73 suggested - it might not be quiet but it may keep you alive. 
-it will also get me into prison at 16

RE:
As one cop show provided once - if he uses his fist, use your billyclub.  If he uses a knife, use your gun. 
-fair fights are for heros, and lots of heros are dead

RE:
Knives kill and wound far more people every year than guns do.  Knives are a preferred weapon of choice - silent and effective, even the smaller ones.  Don't kid yourself that a short bladed knife won't slice you into chutney, because it will. 
-hurts don't it...

RE:
I would never go bare-handed (again) against a knife weilding opponent.  I was lucky once.  The next time I used a gun to defend myself and even then the idiot didn't think I would use it, which was his fatal mistake.  And don't kid yourself, it doesn't have to be a switchblade, stilleto or lock-back folder - many, many times it is just a long bladed kitchen knife and they will do a horrendous job on a human - why not, they are designed to cut. 
- i don't like to rely on luck if i can avoid it... even one of those little "Case" folders will sever a vein

RE:
Years agao I sold (or tried to) cutlery as a means to get some extra $ for school.  We were having a terrible time trying to sell this stuff in a 'minority' neighborhood.  I lucked out - I knocked on a door and showed this lady what I was selling and her first response was - 'can you throw that one?'.  I let her heft it, and she turned and threw it and buried it in a door - then she told me to wait a minute and called all her girlfirends to come over and try it and I sold 14 of then that day - that was the only sale we had.  The point here is that many, many peole really do know how effective a knife can be and those of us who prefer handguns should realize this and be prepared to defend ourselves against them.
-I'd hate to be the poor bugger that tried to mug her


rockbilly-
RE:
Many years of experience has taught me to be more cautious of a person with a knife than those with a gun.  It has been my experience that when a person pulls a knife, they will cut you.  A person may pull a gun, and then have thoughts about using it, not so with a blade.
-your right about the "all in" mindset, there is NO halfway, hesitation, or doubt in thier mind

RE:
Since that time I have a fear of blades, I am afraid of being cutl, so if a person pulls a knife they will be looking down the barrel of my Sig.  I think I can defuse a bad situation with a couple of well placed 240 gr .45 slugs.
-hope none of us ever have to...

[corbanzo]

I studied some knife self defense through martial arts, and here is the first thing my instructor told me:

If you get in a fight, and they have a knife, you are most likely going to get cut.
If you are in a fight with someone who knows what they are doing, you are going to be cut before you ever see the knife.

Try and control the arm which they have the knife from above the wrist, or shoot him, with that I'm in full agreement.

[williamlayton]

People have some kind of instinctive respect/fear/knowledge about a gun that they do not of a knife. A knife does not carry the same kind of balance of respect from a person using it as does a gun, or, some would use a knife quicker than they would use a gun.
Some with a gun would have too much confidence over a person with a knife. I would fear a person with a knife to use it more than a person with a gun. Now I am not saying that I do not fear a person with a gun.
Blessings

[Arc Angel]

   I have to think that the term, 'knifefighting' is a misnomer.  Most blade work, today, is one form or another of outright sneak attack.  If you can't see his hands, you've got a problem.  If a stranger insists on getting too close to you, out on the street, you've got a problem.  If a knifer gets withing 30 feet of you with his knife in hand, again, you've got a problem. 

A knife isn't a shock weapon; most knife wounds - stabs included - will simply bleed you out.  Some knife wounds will exsanguinate you quicker than others.  The very worst will, both, bleed and make it very difficult for you to breathe at the same time.  Anyone who prefers to use a knife, also, needs to understand the human anatomy very well; otherwise, the cuts won't be delivered well; and, the target may live just long enough to finish his attacker off.  Personally, I don't see anyone with a, 'duelist mentality' being able to enjoy a long knifefighting career.   

In the modern world, a knifer needs to be more of an assassin than a duelist.  Consequently, always expect a man with a knife to attempt to surprise you.  Whether you see the knife, or not, your best defense against ANY suspected protagonist is to do everything in your power to prevent him from closing with you. 

Nobody needs me to say anymore - right!     

[Cottonwood]

I once had a guy pull a rather large knife and state, "I'm going to kill you" I pulled my CA Bulldog and stated "your not going to kill anyone today"

Its simple,  you don't bring a knife to a gunfight 

[JeffG]

I have to think that the term, 'knifefighting' is a misnomer.  Most blade work, today, is one form or another of outright sneak attack.  If you can't see his hands, you've got a problem.  If a stranger insists on getting too close to you, out on the street, you've got a problem.  If a knifer gets withing 30 feet of you with his knife in hand, again, you've got a problem. 

As a skilled knifer, I have to tell you, your assumptions are correct. However, most people don't know how to avoid close or overly friendly contact.  They shake hands, big mistake. They stand close to someone who speaks softly... They shoot center mass with a handgun, intead of head and center spine shots, very big mistake. 
Do not underestimate the motivation of someone with a knife, if you see it, it may be only one of two, calculated to get a reaction: a deadly mistake.  The only skill that a drugged out crazy needs to hurt you is compared with using a big red magic marker, it is very easy...MOVE, SHOUT COMMANDS, SWITCH DIRECTION, SHOOT, MOVE AGAIN! CALL 911. After an encounter, have EMS do an all body scan for wounds, you may not know you are hurt.

[stolivar]

Montana man you are slightly, No you are very wrong. It has been proven that the guy with the knife will win 80 percent of the time if he is withing 21 ft of you. Even if you see the knife, he will cut you and probally kill you if he knows what he is doing. That is where the 21 ft rule came into being.



steve

[Scott T]

Folks fight with knives, guns even chairs.  They use what is at hand.  Not too many skilled knife fighters out there, even less are criminals.

It is not the instrument, but the man who wields it.  Some folks are just plain dangerous no matter what is at hand.

[hillbill]

one thing about a knife nobody mentioned is that they rarely malfunction, even if they are dull they will stab hell out of yu.

[jimster]

A person who knows how to use a knife and wants to take you out, could also take you out with a club, they won't flash it, they won't telepath their actions, ect...trained pro's would probably take you out without any weapon if you were caught off guard. There are what people call punks out there also through, not well trained, they flash their weapons, you can see them comming a mile away...and they will run like the wind when they find out they brought a knife to a gunfight, like the above post points out. All depends on the person I guess.  Bottom line is, I'd rather be packin in any case, cause without any protection at all, there is no chance of survival. Knives scare the heck out of me for sure. No doubt about it.
If someone rushes you from up close with intent to do harm, your in trouble, probably no matter what they have in their hands.

[PaulS]

Within the city limits of seattle it is a crime to carry any fixed blade knife or any folding knife with an overall open length of 6 inches or more. Switch blades, butterflies, and other knives that can be opened with a "flip of the wrist" or through the action of inertial force are considered dangerous knives and are banned. A person cannot carry a knife for self defense but anyone 21 years old or older can carry a gun unconcealed. Anyone who is legally able to buy a pistol can get a concealed carry permit.

So, in Seattle you can't legally defend yourself with a knife but a gun is ok.... Only the State constitution prevents the liberals in power from banning guns, they have already banned knives.

[dave375hh]

Win73
        I think if you wear earplugs and muffs your .45 will be quiet enough.

Sorry I just couldn't help myself. LOL

[Kaimi]

I studied some knife self defense through martial arts, and here is the first thing my instructor told me:

If you get in a fight, and they have a knife, you are most likely going to get cut.
If you are in a fight with someone who knows what they are doing, you are going to be cut before you ever see the knife.

Try and control the arm which they have the knife from above the wrist, or shoot him, with that I'm in full agreement.

HMMM, must have had the same instructor. Mine told me that to win you must not be afraid of getting cut. NO WAY!! I hate knives more than I hate guns for that same reason. A guy can come at you faster with a knife than you can draw a gun, no matter who you are! With that in mind i always try to avoid any confrontation and if i cant then i prepare to either get hurt or defend yourself  to your FULL ability. Kick,scratch,gouge,bite, whatever it takes but YOU SHOULD PREVAIL!
Ka'imi