Author Topic: Staying out in cold temps  (Read 679 times)

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Offline Sourdough

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Staying out in cold temps
« on: December 17, 2006, 01:34:22 PM »
Watching Fox news, they are talking about how difficult it is tyo stay out in temps below Zero.  They ought to come up here and camp out with me and my partners, or some of our army troops sometime.  While I was still active duty, we had an exercise where we went down to Ft Greely for two days to set up camp for a big exercise and to accomidate the troops from Anchorage, (Ft Richardson and Elmendorf).  We spent two days setting up tents, heating units, a field kitchen, everything needed for a two week encampment.  The plane landed from Anchorage, the General in charge got off, walked around the camp, took a tempature reading.  Said -52 is too cold for his troops got back onto the plane and left.  Think how we felt, we had already spent two nights there, and he was there at midday.  We were packed up and on our way back to Fairbanks in two hours!

Went Moose hunting last year in November, we took a sheet of visquin and a small stove.  My partner had planned to make a tent out of the visquin.  After we got there and he discovered his idea was flawed, and the stove was burning wood faster than he could collect and feed it.  I decided it was time to get some sleep, so I cut the lower limbs off a spruce tree, threw them on the snow, unrolled my sleeping bag, took off my boots and parka, and crawled into my sleeping bag.  I also took two Thermo-care heat wraps into the bag with me.  One around my waist, and the other at my feet.(Old man trick)  I slept good, it was only -35.  Starting the snow machines the next morning was the hardest part of the trip, they don't like to turn over colder than -20, had to use canned heat to thaw them out.

Many year ago a close friend and I went on a day trip up the Steese highway.  That was in the days before the state kept the highway open.  We drove to Chatanika, parked the truck, unloaded the snow machines and went riding.  We went all the way to 12 mile summet, which is mile 82 of the highway.  The winter scenery was absolutely beautiful.  We had lunch there and was reading to depart when we looked at the sky and realised we were in trouble.  We headed down the highway as fast as we could go.  Our biggest mistake was passing a Homestead and not stopping.  Anyway the storm caught us before we got back to the truck.  After I rolled my machine and broke off the handle bars we decided we needed to build shelter and hunker down and outwait the storm.  We had enough rations to last for two days, so we built a snow cave and crawled in.  We used a candle stove, (Coleman stove was too much heat and melted the roof) to melt ice for water.  We actually caught a Snow Shoe Hare with a snare and ate it the second night.  We knew it was cold, but we were ready, and had the proper gear to stay warm.  We could have stayed there for a week or longer if need be.  The third morning in our shelter the storm broke, and the temp rose.  We dug out our snow machines and went to the truck.  When we got to the truck we were met by rescue teams getting ready to come search for us, our wives had reported us missing.  The team told us the tempature had been in the -50 degree range.  My partner Bob now is always singing that Hank Williams Jr song "Country Boy Can Survive" when we think about that trip.  Bob and I did not have any formal cold weather training, we just did things our Grandfathers taught us, and used common sense.  But I think the most important thing was that we never even thought of being scared, we were just annoyed that we got caught by the storm.

Those men climbing that mountain can do just fine if they use their heads and don't get caught by an avalange.  They have the gear so cold should not be a problem, altatude is their enemy.
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Offline powderman

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Re: Staying out in cold temps
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2006, 03:29:43 PM »
SOURDOUGH. One of those guys was found dead today in a snow cave. When I was a kid in ILL my brother and his friend used to camp out every new years eve, no matter the weather. One year had about 5 or 6 inches on the ground  well below zero and windy. I got concerned for them and drove out close to where they were to camp. There was an old barn there and I saw a faint light so I went to the barn. They were in the loft and had made a cave from the bales of hay. They were snug as a bug in a rug with their blankets. Your story just brought that to mind, it was probably 45 years ago or so. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Staying out in cold temps
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2006, 04:07:49 PM »
   I regularly go night zzcoyote hunting here in MN when the temps are in the minus 20's. Its all in the layering and pacing yourself to not work up a sweat. I think these guys got caught out in worse weather than expected. The usual time to die from exposure is 3 hours in and arctic situation.

    I'd guess they weren't quite prepared for the storm that caught them. IT's to bad to hear they are finding them dead. But when dealing with that mean old bi@#$ mother nature ya gotta prepare for the worst situation.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Staying out in cold temps
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2006, 11:58:08 AM »
Attatude!        That is the key.         If you have the right attitude anything the weather throws at you can be wotked through.  This morning they are talking about the remaining two might have gotten to temberline.  To many people that is like getting to the mall.  That gives one the capability of fire, snow shoes, meat, water, even vegitable fiber for insulation.  If only they had the right attitude when they got there.
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Offline williamlayton

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Re: Staying out in cold temps
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2006, 02:14:15 PM »
I think the injury is the key. It threw away a lot of options and obviously caused some time delays.
The weather was cold and they are above the timberline in 100+ mph wind by the time the attempt was made to come down and leave the injured in a snow cave.
I can appreciate that some have made it thru much the same for as much as two weeks but not everybody can/does and not all will every time.
The most experienced have perished under less harsh conditions.
It is sad for those left to mourn.
I doubt they are pointing fingers.
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Offline bearfat

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Re: Staying out in cold temps
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2006, 05:37:53 AM »
Sourdough what do you use for foot gear up there. Attached pic of white bunny boots I use in Northern MN but I've always heard seal skins boot were better. I'm not looking for the LLBean yuppie stuff but real seal skin. Anyone make and be willing to sell me a size 12 wide where you are? Could you PM me with a contact? I was just going to send a postcard to the postmaster to pass along to anyone in your area that might do it.


                        36 year old bunny boots still being used!!

I'm sure you can see the contractor manf date on the back of the boot, "June 1970". They were 30 years old when I bought them "new" in a military surplus up here for $60.00 and the girl at the counter thought I was nuts.

I used the felt lined Sorrells for a long time, the bunnies are better, but seal skin is the cat's meow I've heard!!



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Offline Brett

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Re: Staying out in cold temps
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2006, 02:16:09 PM »
Bearfat, click on the link if you are interested in a newer pair of U.S. Mil. Spec. Micky Mouse boots in Black for half what you payed for your 30 year old white version.   http://www.sportsmansguide.com/search/search.asp?r=Page%3A+%2FDefault.asp+KW+Box&s=SEARCH&a=search&k=Micky+Mouse+boots
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Staying out in cold temps
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2006, 03:31:48 PM »
Don't bother with the black (Micky Mouse) boots, they aren't worth it.  Not much better than a good pair of sneakers.  Stick with the white Bunny Boots.  If you keep the valve shut tight, and never let them get water inside, they are good to -65.  If you ever let water get inside throw them away.  I wear Bunny Boots all the time when the temp is below zero.  Nothing I repeat NOTHING will keep your feet as warm as a good pair of Bunny Boots.  I also only wear one pair of wool socks in them, keep them loose where your feet have some ability to move inside.  I've stepped into water and filled them full of water at -35.  Kept them  on, just laid down, lifted my leg to where the water would run out got up and kept going.  Feet stayed warm as long as I kept moving, in fact 10 minutes after getting wet I forgot about them being wet, they were warm.  That night at the cabin when I took them off I remembered getting them wet when I had to wring out my socks.  I've been wearing my Bunny Boots now for about 15 years, they are just about due to be replaced.  I am beginning to think they have a few holes in them that is allowing water to get inside, they just aren't working as they did.  The last time I was out I noticed my feet wern't as warm as usual at -30. 

Beta's are the best, and up here they run about $100 to $110 per pair.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline bearfat

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Re: Staying out in cold temps
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2006, 04:51:19 PM »
I have about 15 pair of bunnies I'm afraid to admit, unfortunately most of them are black. I have to hide them from the wife since there would be issues brought up of being a pack rat. All true but they don't make bunnies anymore. The newest I see on the market are all black and from 1985 manf date.

White bunnies are harder to find, and from what I understand have several extra layer of wool? When it's real cold the white bunnies are indeed the best.

I have to wear bunnies in the  winter once we get snow. I did some stupid stuff when I was a young with my feet and pay the price now.

I only live 15 miles from the Sportsmans guide and it's where I buy all my military stuff.

One summer day I walked in there and they had four pair of new black bunnies in size 14 extra wide. They wanted $11.95 a pair.
I couldn't resist and took them all. I found some material they cut and glue to place on the bottom of hip boot waders (kind of a thick white heavy duty felt) to make them less slippery on the bottom? Anyway a light bulb went off and I trimmed and put them inside the "Herman Monster" size black bunnies. I found I could actually wear them quite well and that extra layer almost made them as good as a white bunny boot.

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