Author Topic: 44 Mag or 357 Max?  (Read 2003 times)

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Offline handirifle

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44 Mag or 357 Max?
« on: December 18, 2006, 05:36:56 PM »
Thinking of getting a handgun to go hunt deer in Ohio with.  It has to be straight case, .357 or larger, 6" barrel or more.  I'm looking into the TC Contender.  Iknow, I know, this is NEF but YOU GUYS have the knowledge I want.

Thinking of getting a .357 Mag barrels and reaming it to 357 Max, OR getting a 44 Mag barrel.

Seems like the MAX should have a little better trajectory but not as much recoil.  This would be from a 12-14" barrel.  What do you guys think.

FWIW, IF NEF made a pistol I'd get one.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2006, 06:42:41 PM »
I don't blame ya for wantin a hunting handgun, I just bought a 15" 7mm-08 barrel for my Encore frame, just cuz I've never had one, sure do wish H&R would offer one, that would be sweet!! :D

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline handirifle

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2006, 07:49:17 PM »
I wondered if someone could start an outfit, buy receivers from NEF, register them as handguns to sell with prefitted barrels?  Seems like that way NEF could make them but not be directly involved.  Wonder how hard it is to become a legal manufacter of firearms these days?

I'm sure there has to be about 10 years of red tape.
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2006, 08:08:05 PM »
Thinking of getting a handgun to go hunt deer in Ohio with.  It has to be straight case, .357 or larger, 6" barrel or more.  I'm looking into the TC Contender.  Iknow, I know, this is NEF but YOU GUYS have the knowledge I want.

Thinking of getting a .357 Mag barrels and reaming it to 357 Max, OR getting a 44 Mag barrel.

Seems like the MAX should have a little better trajectory but not as much recoil.  This would be from a 12-14" barrel.  What do you guys think.

FWIW, IF NEF made a pistol I'd get one.

Now that Smith & Wesson owns them...http://ir.smith-wesson.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=90977&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=942841&highlight= Who knows...maybe a name change will be more palatable :D :D :D

But if I was going to take up handgun hunting...it just might have to be this Smith&Wesson...



Quote
Smith & Wesson, in partnership with Whitetails Unlimited, is now offering hunters and conservationists alike a new limited edition, custom-engraved Model 460XVR revolver. Elegant as it is effective, this commemorative revolver features a gold plated Whitetails Unlimited logo on the sideplate along with the designated state name engraved on the barrel.

Ohh...Yeaaaaa

Mac

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Offline myarmor

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2006, 08:16:06 PM »
The 460 is a HotRod, no doubt about it. And I would love to experiment with it too, especially if possibile in a Handi.
But given the threads topic of 357 or 44mag, I would personally take a 44Mag. But then again everyone has their own limits or comfort level, so what is comfortable to you?
A 357 is a lot of fun plinking with light 38sp to the hotter 357 hunting rounds, and it's pretty cheap to shoot as well. And recoil isn't as harsh as a 44Mag.
I like the stopping power of the 44. And in a TC like in question, I would take it.


I wondered if someone could start an outfit, buy receivers from NEF, register them as handguns to sell with prefitted barrels?  Seems like that way NEF could make them but not be directly involved.  Wonder how hard it is to become a legal manufacter of firearms these days?

I'm sure there has to be about 10 years of red tape.

This is an interesting statement. I suppose wishfull thinking on our part :-\ Not to mention the price jump that would be in place....


-Aaron


Offline Mac11700

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2006, 08:23:45 PM »


Why limit it to either the 357 MAX or a 44Mag?...Especially since it's going to be in a T...TC....oh heck...in a Smith& Wesson :D :D :D...If I was just limited to either of those 2 choices...it would be the 44mag...I have owned plenty of them in the past...and it is a fun round to shoot...

Mac
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Offline handirifle

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2006, 05:43:41 AM »
Mac
The main reason for the limit, is I mainly want to get the gun to hunt in Ohio during gun season.  They allow handguns, with limitations.  They must be a straight wall case, .357 cal or larger, and I don't want a handgun round more powerful than the 44 for me personally.

For out west, where I live, I think a nice 7-30 Waters barrel or 30-30 AI will be in order. ;D

The 44 Was my first choice from a time back, but I think the MAX might be a bit flatter shooting.
I guess more ballistic research might be in order.

What velocities are 357 Max owners getting?
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Offline safetysheriff

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2006, 02:15:42 PM »
FWIW: here in Ohio we're allowed a 5" barrel.....

but here's what i think otherwise:   if a .44 mag' is your recoil limit, but doesn't shoot flat enough then think about a .41 mag' which some say shoots flatter.   it will still kill deer, hogs, black bear, and so on.   

i'd go with a .44 mag myself, with a bullet of approx' 210 to 240 gr's to achieve high velocity with sufficient energy downrange.   i'd do that with a Jacketed HollowPoint, too......which i've noted elsewhere as recommended by dick metcalf --- and j.d. jones who sold molds for lead bullets!    i've used hardcast lead for my .44 mag'; but i'm not pushing it to its velocity limit with the longer barrel of a T/C which might give you a problem with leading unless using a gas-check'd design.   

i'd get the longest barrel i could get on that T/C to make good use of what velocity can do to stretch your trajectory and killing power.    i have seen whitetails here in ohio that go well over 300 lbs...........     you can find them in a number of our counties if you're willing to wait for a big one to come along.    with a scope you can take a big deer at 150 yds' with the right bullet if you know your trajectory and have practiced.

if you get a .357 Maxi' you may get the flattest trajectory yet, but you'll top out with 200 gr' bullets which have a relatively small diameter.     at least the .44 mag' starts out with a better diameter, and can go with enough weight to Easily penetrate a deer through both shoulders if need be.   we get enough hunters out on public land in this state that it can make a difference on who tags a deer if it isn't put down Quickly.   

good luck, Handi'

ss'   

Yet a little while and the wicked man shall be no more.   Though you mark his place he will not be there.   Ps. 37.

Offline Ditchdigger

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2006, 02:30:42 PM »
I'm looking for a handgun to hunt with also.There was a Dan Wesson 357 max. on gunbroker lately,but it sold. If anyone has a Dan Wesson in 445 super mag for sale let me know.   Digger
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Offline bluebayou

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2006, 03:47:30 PM »
Sold my .44 because it was .432.  If they ever make one that is .429 then I will buy it in a heartbeat. 

Offline jbtazgrabber

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2006, 03:57:04 PM »
i hope this helps.357 max at 11 in.of barrel is1730 fps......with 13 in of barrel it is 1800fps  with 18 in of barrel it is 1805 fps......with 20 in of barrel it it 1750 fps.....this is with imr 4227 powder with 158 gr. xtp bullets.......the only 445 cal load i have cronyed is imr 4227 with a 21 in barrel and 200 gr.xtp bullet it was 1970 fps......i cant find any 44 loads at all......i shot a couple deer with 357 max..in a 10 contender it was ok.but these were okla deer only 80 to 90 lbs.......i hit a big 150 lb deer and he blleed right to the other hunter about 400 yards away...who never fired a shot but checked in a nice buck yhat day.......huuummm?????sinse that time i went to the 445 havent lost a deer yet.....have not even had to track one...the 144 lb hit right in the shoulder this year went 30 yards thats the farthest a deers ever gone with the 445........i realy love the max....but if im after a deer the 44 will go every time    ....no ifs  ands or ......about it....h10 powder well get you more speed but it is not what i load with.......my 7 year old is hunting with a 357 max.....thats because he not big enough yet to hanle the 44...but when he is the 357 will be history......my 2 cents worth.....jb

Offline handirifle

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2006, 05:32:00 PM »
Real experience is worth WAY more than my speculation.  It looks like I'll go with the 44 and limit my range.  Better to not be able to take a shot and watch him walk, than to take it and see him run to someone else.

safetysheriff

I know what the Ohio bucks are like, this one ( I got him this October) was about 250 on the hoof. ;)  You made very good points too.

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Offline jbtazgrabber

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2006, 07:19:35 PM »
boy im so glad to live in okla....the better half has killed 6 me 2 my son 1 if i had to drag that many 250 on the hoofs out id be dead........or at least in traction.......... :o :o...jb

Offline handirifle

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2006, 07:31:51 PM »
My younger brother helped me drag him to the trail, where I dressed him out and we loaded him on the quad ;D the ONLY way to ahul a deer that big out.  Wish I could use a setup like that here in CA.
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Offline jbtazgrabber

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2006, 07:42:44 PM »
hey i got to thinkin <hate it when i do that>i had a 30/30 with a 10 in barrel thats was better than the 44 barrel..recoil was a little easyer than the 44..shot farther than the 44...this was like so many years ago  that the pointed bullets were for high power rifles not a slow 30/30.....combine todays pointed pistol bullets and powders with a good scope id take a 30/30 over the 44........id be asking about a 30/30 and a 44......?????look at some enegy tables ????..im not a fan of the recoil ...i kinda dislike removing my wrist from my elbo after shooting.....the 30/30 wasnt bad......and it was a cheap barrel back then ....with all the magna crave.it might be a cheap one to buy now.........keep us informed ...jb

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2006, 07:44:34 PM »
That's a nice buck, Handi!! I had a similar situation, only I was alone, but only needed to go about a half mile to camp, part of which was on a closed road. This buck dressed at the locker, meat and bones, no head, hide or lower legs, at 169lbs. After I gutted it, I tried to drag it, went about 20' and called it quits. Walked back to camp and got a meat cart, dad walked back with me, even for 2 of us, it was a chore, although he was 75yrs old, so not as much help as someone younger would have been, but help, none the less. ;)

Tim

My uncle on the left who showed up for the pic, and my dad.


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Offline jbtazgrabber

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2006, 07:48:10 PM »
quad?????im from okla....is a quad a reely big guy on all fours?????? ::)no i hunt on govt. land no moter access allowed......good thing the deer fall closer to the boat than the road...i might never get one out......lol.,jb

Offline handirifle

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2006, 05:09:02 AM »
hey i got to thinkin <hate it when i do that>i had a 30/30 with a 10 in barrel thats was better than the 44 barrel..recoil was a little easyer than the 44..shot farther than the 44...this was like so many years ago  that the pointed bullets were for high power rifles not a slow 30/30.....combine todays pointed pistol bullets and powders with a good scope id take a 30/30 over the 44........id be asking about a 30/30 and a 44......?????look at some enegy tables ????..im not a fan of the recoil ...i kinda dislike removing my wrist from my elbo after shooting.....the 30/30 wasnt bad......and it was a cheap barrel back then ....with all the magna crave.it might be a cheap one to buy now.........keep us informed ...jb

For hunting out west it WILL be the 30-30 OR the 7-30 Waters, but this question was for hunting in Ohio, and they have a limit on handgun s can ONLY use straight case calibers.  I'm with you on the recoil, that was why the 44 Mag was my top limit.  The 35's I'm sure will be flatter, but I want them to drop quick.

Quick
NICE deer yourself!  Ha, nice story too.  I shot this fellow from a tree stand and after waiting about 30 min, I went after him.  I TRIED to move him, but it wasn't gonna happen.  I moved him about 5' and gave up.

My brother is 10 years younger than me and we struggled to get him on the quad AFTER he was gutted.  I'm gonna post a story about my hunt on my web site, when I get time to set it up.  Lots of fun, that trip!
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Offline mt3030

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2006, 05:47:18 AM »
Tim:
nice buck AND rifle. What caliber? I have them in 257R, 308 and 358. These will cover anything I want to chase in Montana.
Wally



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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2006, 06:29:33 AM »
Thanks Handi and Wally!! It's a .308 Japan made BLR, it was my one and only centerfire rifle until I got infected with Handis here!!! It hasn't been in the woods since 2003, gotta make meat with several Handis before that happens again!! :D

Tim
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Offline safetysheriff

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2006, 11:50:49 AM »
Handi'

you son of a gun!   nice buck!    you've already been here and taken one home!   i didn't know about that....   nice buck!   

another suggestion, if it makes sense to you:   go into the woods with a relatively inexpensive, long-barreled, single-action Ruger in .44 mag'.   you'll be able to scope the revolver, and you'll have one of those units that has done so well even in the 200-yard competition knocking down those metal rams at the IHMSA matches.    Rugers have done very well.   you'll have all the power and all the cartridges you should need........even for a hunt on public land.

NICE BUCK YOU GOT THERE!

good hunting when you get back to Ohio.

ss'   
Yet a little while and the wicked man shall be no more.   Though you mark his place he will not be there.   Ps. 37.

Offline handirifle

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2006, 05:41:40 PM »
SS
I have thought about that for a bit.  I once owned a Ruger Blackhawk in 357 but didn't like the way it moved in my hand when I shot it.  Some of the other offerings are tempting, BUT I think the "Handi" ability to change calibers makes the TC more enticing.

Wonder what the velocity diff is between an 8" revolver and a 10-12" TC?  I know there is some loss due to the cylinder gap in the revolver.
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Offline cattleskinner

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2006, 06:45:42 PM »
Handi,

I don't know if you reload, but you could always get a .45 bisley from accusport.  They are also going to release their .357 bisley model soon.  Very nice pistols.  You can't really go wrong with any of your choices for deer.  I switched to using a pistol a couple years ago, and used a .44 lone eagle one year, and a .41 blackhawk last year.  Would have used the .45 if the military would have let me go home for this year's season...hopefully next year. ;)

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Offline handirifle

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2006, 07:36:56 PM »
I do reload, but do not like the western style grips in a handgun.
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Offline cattleskinner

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2006, 07:44:02 PM »
Bisley grips feel alot more like a double action grip, even if they look like they are western style.  The blackhawk I used last year needed a set of Hogue grips to make them feel good to me.  Those Hogues totally change the way a pistol feels.  Oh yeah, how is your sister's market doing?

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Offline tallpaul

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2006, 02:45:15 AM »
The max is on my short list. I am in ohio and a friend got an encore set up with the max. It is a great Ohio deer round. 200 yards and lethal. We have used the 44 mags with success but the flat shooting max has been a great round out of the SS contender/encore for ohio. If the ODNR was not so retarded it would be nice to be able to carry a revolver And the longer ranged ss. They are control freaks though and think they are GODS... they supposidly overide my right to CCW- at least in thier minds- and so far the states. Anyhow back to the max. It will do all ya need to do here and do it well. You could move up to a longer .44 or .45 cased round to if you absolutely want the bigger bullets. I have a 45/70 I want to set up and use at least once  8)
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Offline handirifle

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2006, 04:21:24 AM »
cattleskinner
Had thought about the grips but the Blackhawk left such a bad taste in my mouth.  Totally different feel than the current Ruger Security Six I own.  Cannot use it cause it's only a 4" barrel.  Shots would have to be under 50yds with that one for sure anyway.
Oh, yea, the market is closed for the winter now.  Every year she closes it at the end of Oct.  I guess the proposed bypass the city is trying to do will go down the center of their farm.  They are fighting it, bigtime.
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Offline safetysheriff

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Re: 44 Mag or 357 Max?
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2006, 11:16:11 AM »
Handi'

you might expect to lose 80 fps' average with a revolver when going from 10" down to 8" in barrel length.    it might actually be a little less at that long of a length with a 'normal' .44 mag' load.

how it would compare to a T/C would just be a guess; but it's probably more than 120 fps' difference as my guess between the revolver at 8" and the T/C at 12".

that being said, a 7 1/2"-barreled RedHawk double-action has been used very successfully in the IHMSA competitions knocking down those rams at 200 yds/meters.   i think Mickey Fowler's RedHawks were big favorites of his years ago.......if memory serves me correctly.

take care,

ss' 



Yet a little while and the wicked man shall be no more.   Though you mark his place he will not be there.   Ps. 37.