.458 Win Mag - your real-wrold experience

[skippermdj]

JJ - thanks for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us. 

There is a lot of opinion on the 458 WinMag based on the long history of the cartridge in Africa.  I understand that there were serious problems back a few years with "squib" loads that barely got the bullet out of the barrel and velocities that wouldn't beat a 45/70, much less the 2100+FPS advertised by the ammo manufacturers.

My dilemma is that I've got an action that will acccomodate 458WM, but not the 458Lott.  I'd like a 458, but there's no reason to build it if it's going to be inadequate for an eventual African DG hunt. 

In my reading, I come across equal parts of "the 458WM with modern powders is all you need" and "the 458WM was defective from the beginning and isn't any better now - get a 458Lott".  I also have seen mixed reviews of the Horrnady Heavy Magnum loads, which should give 458Lott-like performance, showing pressure spikes and unsafe indications in African conditions.

Is there a proven way, in your experience, to set up and load (or get commercial ammunition) for the 458WinMag so that one can be confident in the round in African Conditions with a critter that wants to stomp, gore or eat you down range? 

Thanks in advance!
- Mark

[GEMSBUCK]

build a 458WM load 450gr TSX at a very capable 2200 fps and go kill anything in Africa, if you want to hunt elephant soley just load 500gr Barnes soilds. Case capacity is not a problem with powders like AA2230, H335 etc..
 look at the Lott all it's fame comes from the same bullet and a tad longer case. Another option with the 458WM is down loading it to 45/70 loads and using it on PG and here in NA for just about everything that walks under 200 yds.

[Smokin Joe]

If you want a great round without worring about the .458, consider the .416 Taylor..........416 on the .458 case. It'll work on any African game you come across.

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd416taylor.jpg

[JJHACK]

With todays powder and bullets the 458 is not the same cartridge it was when released. I own a 458 Lott and I have shot it maxed out and very mild. It works outstanding at what would be a Max 458 Mag load level and is nice to shoot.

The old 470 nitro express shot bullets at 2100fps. Today with a 24" barrel you can do that with a 458 win mag. Or get very close. If my memory serve me right the 470 Nitro was shooting 480 grain bullets? I don't recall them being 500 grains but I've never owned one either. Shooting a 450 grain premiun bullet at something over 2000fps is a hella lotta power.

I shoot the 450X bullet exclusive out of my Lott and it has room for powder. I don't know if that X bullet is going to be as good a choice out of the MIn mag becuase the additional length of the bullet will take up the much needed powder space on that smaller case. Speer Makes a Tungston solid that most people use, it's heavier then Lead and will get 2100fps with the 500 grain bullet from many guns.

I usually shoot my Lott with the 450X bullets at 2250fps. It's lethal beyond anything I've ever seen to compare it to. I have shot it to 2350 but never recovered anything but a shank of the bullet. At 2100-2200 I've recovered a few with petals but even then they shear off most of the time. I shot some 450 A frames that mushroom like a advertisement and are fantastic even at the 2300FPS speed. I have one here from a Bull Elephant and another from inside the skull of a huge Croc. Both are perfect. The croc about  was 3 feet below the water surfacre too!

I think shooting a 450 grain bullet at 2100fps will give you the results you want, just not sure it will work with the longer X bullets?

[nasem]

Hey JJ,

How would you compare a 416 rigby shooting them 450 grainers... Forgot what company makes them, I don't think it was barnes or swift, but I "think" I saw some data for the 450 grainer being pushed at around 2100+ FPS with the 450 grain bullet.

On the same note, how do the 400 grain 416 works (say the Barnes TSX and Swif-a-frams) at 2400 FPS compare to the 458 win mag / lott when shooting them 450 grainers at 2100-2200 fps....

[JJHACK]

I'm not a rigby fan for one reason, trying to find ammo for it is near to impossible outside your reloading bench. The 458win mags are common and easy and can also be loaded into the Lott and used.

If I were interested in a 416 it would be the Reminington as that ammo is available in far more locations. As far as the performance goes from the various 416 cartridges, ..... well History has proven it to be a very effective choice. For my needs as a crumpler the 458 is a better choice (for me). The same can be said for my needs as a Hunter, the 375HH is better(for me) I prefer the lighter recoil, and the flatter shooting.

The 416 is not as comfortable for me to shoot, and does not have the crumple power of the 458 diameter. It just does not seem to fit me well. Others really like it and have great success. I'm not a gun collecter so I use the couple rifles I own for everything. I prefer it that way, over having a large selection of firearms to choose for specialty applications. I also like having ammo available anyplace I travel, hence the use of the 30/06-375HH-and 458 Lott as my only guns.

Performance wise the 416's are great, more power then the 375 for sure, and we already know that is plenty

[skippermdj]

Thanks, JJ.  You've sold me on the 458.  This is what I was looking for.
- Mark

[GEMSBUCK]

I shot a 400gr  .458 Rem JSP that was designed for use in the 45-70 out of my 458WM @ 1800fps into a bull bison over 2000#. I hit him in the right ham as he was walking away from me..I was shooting for the base of the tail and hit him a few inches to the right of there. It exited out his throat...that was 5 ft of penetration thru muscle and bone with a bullet never meant to be used for that caliber or penetration. I never recovered the bullet as it exited but I'm sure it was little more than a ragged chunk of lead without the jacket.
 Now imagine what a premium .458/450gr bullet @ 2100fps is capable of doing.
 I've never agreeded much with what JJ posts but he is correct that is one hell'va lot of power, with limited applications anywhere in the world.

[fe352v8]

GEMSBUCK wrote:

I've never agreeded much with what JJ posts but he is correct that is one hell'va lot of power, with limited applications anywhere in the world.

It’s a Christmas MIRICLE

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

[gwindrider1]

For you guys shooting the CZ 550 magnums, you can seat the Barnes 450 TSX out farther, to crimp in the second groove.  This gives you about 1/8" additional case capacity.

I'm loading that bullet over 72 grns. of H4895, with a Fed. 215 primer.  This load is giving me 2225 fps., with 100 yd. groups averaging 1 1/2" with the open sights.  Can't complain about that, and with little to no compression.  The Hodgdon powders listed as "extreme" are relatively temperature insensitive, so the African heat should not be a problem, although I wouldn't let them lay around on the seat of the landrover too long in the sun.

While I have not killed any game with this load as yet, I have no doubt that this bullet, at that velocity will perform well.  The .458 Win. is a very capable round if loaded correctly.

Chamber your rifle for the Winchester cartridge, and go kill something big!  Good shootin'!