308 Marlin express

[Country Boy]

 I would buy one if the rifle comes with a 22" bbl. basically what you are getting in .300 savage performance. I sure would like to see a picture of one and it specifications. Where can I find a picture.

[VTDW]

Levergun 94 and Coyote Hunter nailed it perfectly.  I am already standing in line for the .308 Express.  Leverguns forever!!!!!

Dave

If you don't like or respect leverguns you do not understand.  Keep the tradition alive.

Dave

[Coyote Hunter]

I would buy one if the rifle comes with a 22" bbl. basically what you are getting in .300 savage performance. I sure would like to see a picture of one and it specifications. Where can I find a picture.

The Jan 2007 Shooting Times has a two page spread on the .308 Marlin.  Large pic of the cartridge, comparative .30-30, .308, .308 Win and .308 Marlin data, and full case dimensions.  Got mine in the mail a few days ago.

[crash87]

I'm also estatic on the "new" round, and seeing how I can't leave well enough alone, I'm going the other way of what Coyote Hunter is, I've got plans for a 35-308 Marlin express W/24" barrel.
                                                                               CRASH87

[TNrifleman]

I am glad that Marlin is adding a bit to the lever gun's attributes. A 30 caliber cartridge that has more power and useful range than the 30-30 sure sounds like a great idea to me. If ammunition is readily available and reasonably priced, I see no reason why this new round shouldn't be a success. I, for one, am interested in this combination as a sensible deer rifle for those who prefer the lever action rifle.

[Big Paulie]

    A previous poster stated that putting a 24 inch barrel on a lever gun made it clumbsy and inaccurate.

   Anyone who has had the joy of shooting one of the older Marlin .444 levers (pre--1971) with the straight-gripped stock and 24 inch barrel, knows that this is false.  Those rifles leap to your shoulder and stay on target.  Very accurate too.

   Not all lever fans are brush crawlers.

   As for the new Marlin .30, I wish they had just made the new rifle in .300 Savage.  I guess that the pressure of the Savage was just too high for the Marlin action?

     As far as game killing ability, the new Marlin round will be no better in the real world than the .300 Savage.  Manufacturers are getting rich convincing folks that 200 feet per second or 200 foot pounds of difference on paper actually make a difference in the hunting field on deer sized game or above.  Forget it, . .. they don't, . . . and they never will.  (I think that Marlin is putting out one cartridge too many.)

Big Paulie

[old06]

Big Paulie there may be a mix up with the ammo pointed bullets in the Savage and rubber tipps in the Marlin they may be around the same pressure

[Big Paulie]

Excellent observation about the .300 Savage being pointed rounds.  Well, . . .  that explains that!

But, what about just having made the new rifle chambered for the .307 Winchester, and having Hornaday sell a new "compressed" powder load, "LeverEvolution" cartridge, in that existing round.  I'll bet the resulting ballistics would have been danged close to the .308 Marlin Express, without all of the waste of a brand new cartridge.

Sorry guys, but I'm gonna bet that in 20 short years, everyone who buys a rifle in .308 Marlin Express will be scrounging the Internet for ammo and brass.

Remember the very excellent initial reception that the new .260 Winchester got, . . and it died in four short years.

 

Paulie

[old06]

You may have hit the nail on the head with that Big Paulie the gun buying public is a fickled  bunch  the 307 Winchester didn’t sell and in the last ten years the threads I read on I wish I could find one I wish I could make one out of my 30-30 I wrote a letter to the manufacture saying I know about 100 people who would buy one today if you would just make one  time will tell on the saga of the 308 Marlin Big Paulie 

[Coyote Hunter]

Big Paulie -

The problem with the .307 was the COL.  Hornady shortened the length to the shoulder by about 0.1" which allowed them to use a redesigned LeverEvolution bullet with an improved Ballistic Coefficient.

[Big Paulie]

Coyote,

  I guess COL means cartridge overall length?  Hard to  believe that Hornaday could not have easily shaved a 10th of an inch off the COL of the .307 Win. in a LeverEvolution round, by just making the bullet 15 or 20 grains lighter in weight and changing the profile of the nose..  Of course, I could be wrong, but the apparent close partnership of Hornaday and Marlin in these matters makes me think Marlin wanted a brand new round, with its name on it, for no other reasons than marketing.  Again, though, I could be wrong.

Paulie

[Sir Charles deMoutonBlack]

Heh Mr Dhillon!  Ya hear them boys back east have re-invented the .300 Savage?  Yeah Festus, next thin ya know they'l be figgerin how to get it in one a them modern humpback guns with the Austrian Coo-Coo clock spring feedin the ammo

[Coyote Hunter]

Big Paulie -

Here are some quotes from Shooting Times and Dave Emary, Hornady Ballistics Engineer and developer of the .308 Marlin:

ST:  Why didn't you simply develop a new .307 Winchester load using your .30-caliber LEVERevolution flex-tip bullet?

DE:  Actually, that's what we did first.  But to achieve top performance, we chose to enhance the original LEVERevolution bullt's design and optimize the ballistic coefficient.  To maintain the same cartridge overal length, we had to set the .307's case shoulder back just over a tenth of an inch to accomodate the increased length/sleeker ogive.

Not to mention that setting the shoulder back gave them a chamber that will not accept the higher pressure .307 ammo that is out there.

[Coyote Hunter]

Heh Mr Dhillon!  Ya hear them boys back east have re-invented the .300 Savage?  Yeah Festus, next thin ya know they'l be figgerin how to get it in one a them modern humpback guns with the Austrian Coo-Coo clock spring feedin the ammo

Feel free to shoot .300 Savage ammo in a rifle with a tubular magazine.  Might want to make sure your insurance is paid up first...

[Sir Charles deMoutonBlack]

Coyote; 
Same raison d'etre, to get original .30-06 ballistics in a short package.

Same size case, approximately.

Different bullet!  I did say RE-invent didn't I?

[old06]

I just read the Shooting times article and it states that there’ll be no lever evolution bullets as components or the special proprietary powder ……..HMMMMMMMMMM??   Do they want to make some bucks off of ammo sales or what         

[Coyote Hunter]

I just read the Shooting times article and it states that there’ll be no lever evolution bullets as components or the special proprietary powder ……..HMMMMMMMMMM??   Do they want to make some bucks off of ammo sales or what         

Do you blame them?  If I was Hornady I would want to recoup my development and marketing costs and go on to show a profit.  As a consumer I still want Hornady to do that so they can go on and develope more products - like the .375 Ruger necked down to .25...

[cam69conv]

Fact is too that the evo rounds arent that expencive...And to be honest...How many people go out to the range ALOT with thier levers? Not many paper shooters in the lever world and if your gonna go cowboy shootin you have no need for the evo rounds anyway so why worry about selling to the reloaders? I reload myself and to be quite frank I doubt that I would change the load any from what they have now so theres another reason not to worry about that. And BOY do those new .444XLR's shoot and cycle nice Im in luvvvvv...Just got done sighting mine in and with the evo's Im holding 1/3" group at 100 \/ With my Handloads 9/16" I loaded my Handloads up to max specs and its STILL 1/2" UNDER the evo rounds at 100. Thats tellin me that bullet flies NICE. Now to go shoot somefim wiff it 

[.308 Win.]

I was thinking what kennyd was thinking in that this is closer to the .300 Savage than the .308 Winchester.  Either way, I think this is something I am going to look at.  I have enough interest in this to wait and see instead of going out and buying the .30/30.  At first, I didn't believe this new rifle warranted its' price tag but the more I look at them and the more I read about them, the more I can justify spending the money on one of them.  Now, the question is which caliber?  I guess time will tell and I will wait to see since I don't handload.  .30/30 ammo. is on the shelf at every backwoods store and I don't know that this new round will be so readily available, especially since Hornady is the only ammo. manufacturer producing it.  I just read an article on this round in Shooting magazine and the article is a good one.  Might help others answer some preliminary questions until we actually see this come about.  The XLR is on the cover, too. 

[.308 Win.]

I did not go to the second page of this thread before I posted the info. about the Shooting Magazine article.  I see it has already been mentioned.   

[pastorp]

Paulie, your wrong about the 260 ( I have 2) as long as there is any brass in the 308 amo family we will have brass. The 260 is far from dead, and a balistic equal to the 6.5x55 which gains popularity every year.

To those of you who want a 308W in a lever the browning blr is my choice. Regards, Byron 

[Coyote Hunter]

OK, Here's a list of "well reasoned" arguments as to why the .308 Marlin is a waste of time.  All of these reasons were brought forth here or on another forum.  They are, of course, paraphrased.

Now instead of long-winded whining, naysayers can just list the numbers identifying the reasons they don't like the .308 Marlin.


1.  Should have used a .7mm-Waters.
2.  Should have used a .7mmSTE.
3.  Should have used a 7.62x39.
4.  Should have used a .30-30AI.
5.  Should have used a .300 Savage.
6.  Should have used a .307 Win.
7.  Should have used a.33 Win.
8.  Should have used a.348 Win.
9.  Should have used a JDJ cartridge.
10.  Should have done a .50 Alaskan.
11.  Should have used a 20” barrel.
12.  Should have had a spiral magazine.
13.  Should have used a blued, octagonal 24” barrel.
14.  Forget the whole thing, it's D.O.A.
15.  Forget the whole thing, I can't operate the lever.
16.  Forget the whole thing, it's not readily available.
17.  Forget the whole thing, its got that stupid safety.
18.  Forget the whole thing, ammo will cost $40 a box.
19.  Forget the whole thing, too much recoil and noise.
20.  Forget the whole thing, I'd rather it was a .45-70 pump.
21.  Forget the whole thing, I already have long range rifles.
22.  Forget the whole thing, "i'm just too old & don't like change."
23.  Forget the whole thing, it solves a problem that doesn't exist.
24.  Forget the whole thing, just get a bolt gun in .308 Win or .30-06.
25.  Forget the whole thing, just get a bolt gun for your sniping needs.
26.  Forget the whole thing, if I want long range I’ll get a Sharps or Ballard.
27.  Forget the whole thing, someone will load it with regular spitzer bullets.
28.  Forget the whole thing, the .308 Marlin has not passed the test of time.
29.  Forget the whole thing, leverguns weren't intended to have such capabilities.
30.  Forget the whole thing, it won't do anything a .30-30 at the same pressures won't do.
31.  Forget the whole thing, if you buy one you are doomed to buying factory ammo forever.
32.  Forget the whole thing, "because I am too old to realize a gain in performance and value of this new caliber."
33.  Forget the whole thing, just get a Winnie in .307 or a Savage 99 or a Browning BLR or a Winnie/Browning 1895.
34.  Forget the whole thing, new Marlin rifles have a "cheapness" about them that precludes any interest in them as a whole.
35.  Forget the whole thing, the .308 Marlin Express "would NOT make a good Black Bear caliber.  Unless you are shooting Cubs."
36.  It must be a lie, you can't get .307 velocities from a smaller case withhout pressures higher than a .307.
37.  Should have just manufactured the Savage 99 under license.
38.  Why reinvent the wheel (.307 and Savage .300)?
39.  The ammo will cost too much.
40.  You can’t match factory ballistics.
41.  You can’t even match factory muzzle velocity.
42.  You can't get the brass.
43.  You can’t get the bullets.
44.  You can't get bullets in the same weight.
45.  You can't get the powder.
46.  You can't get the dies.
47.  The powders aren’t available so its really just a .30-30 XLR.
48.  Don’t like the way the XLR looks.
49.  Don't like Marlins, why should I like this one?
50.  The .30-30 can kill at 200 yards and beyond – what’s the point?
51.  The XLR will cost too much.
52.  2” groups at 200 yards is not match-grade ammo.
53.  Its just a scam by greedy companies to get your money.
54.  Marlin should have spent their “finite resources” to improve the accuracy of ALL their rifles.
55.  Marlin should have spent their “finite resources” to introduce novel/better open sights.
56.  Marlin should have spent their “finite resources” to make periodic runs of guns chambered for obsolete cartridges.
57.  Marlin should have spent their “finite resources” to introduce a ‘tactical’ 1894.
58.  Marlin should have spent their “finite resources” to introduce a pump-action .357/.44/.45.
59.  Sharp-pointed bullets don’t offer anything over RN or FN bullets, so what’s the point.
60.  Old timers figured if they could hit a piece of typing paper they were sighted in, why does Marlin need to be different?
61.  Most game is taken at 100-150 yards tops, why do we need something that reaches further?
62.  The .30-30 has taken Africa’s Big Five, why do we need anything else?
63.  You don’t need the extra energy the .308 Marlin provides as the .30-30 can kill a 200-pound deer at 230 yards.
64.  You don’t need the extra trajectory the .308 Marlin provides as the .30-30 can kill a 200-pound deer at 230 yards.
65.  The extra range of the .308 Marlin will just encourage people to take shots at ranges they shouldn’t attempt.
66.  I won’t buy a .308 Marlin because Marlin didn’t answer a letter I wrote them.
67.  The trend toward modernizing traditional designs is a waste of time – it can’t be done.
68.  You can’t use the .308 Marlin’s extra range without a scope, and scoping a levergun is just wrong.
69.  I won’t buy a .308 Marlin because Marlin won’t build rifles chambered for the obsolete cartridges I want – and I know two other guys that want them, too!

[RicMic]

If Hornady does not sell the special tipped bullet as a component for reloading, nobody will ever reach the factory box level of performance.  Never mind the "special powder" problems.  But hey, if you shoot just factory box stuff, the XLR program could be just the ticket.  Otherwise it looks like you'll be pushing a 150 grain roundnose about the same velocity (2660fps).  No thanks.  Cool lookin' gun though.

[Coyote Hunter]

If Hornady does not sell the special tipped bullet as a component for reloading, nobody will ever reach the factory box level of performance.  Never mind the "special powder" problems.  But hey, if you shoot just factory box stuff, the XLR program could be just the ticket.  Otherwise it looks like you'll be pushing a 150 grain roundnose about the same velocity (2660fps).  No thanks.  Cool lookin' gun though.

RicMic -

I load my .308 Win to 2660fps, give or take a few, with North Fork bonded bullets.  If you are not familiar with them they have about the same shape as a Speer 170g FN, which has a B.C of .304 and flies fairly well.  In the .308 Marlin I expect to load Speer 130'g FN's to a sizzling velocity (2850fps or better) and Speer 170's and Nosler 170g Partitions to 2550-2600fps. 

While I won't be able to match factory ballistics, it will be a big jump up from the .30-30 - about 400fps with either bullet weight.  I can live with that...   

[old06]

OK, Here's a list of "well reasoned" arguments as to why the .308 Marlin is a waste of time.  All of these reasons were brought forth here or on another forum.  They are, of course, paraphrased.

Now instead of long-winded whining, naysayers can just list the numbers identifying the reasons they don't like the .308 Marlin.


1.  Should have used a .7mm-Waters.
2.  Should have used a .7mmSTE.
3.  Should have used a 7.62x39.
4.  Should have used a .30-30AI.
5.  Should have used a .300 Savage.
6.  Should have used a .307 Win.
7.  Should have used a.33 Win.
8.  Should have used a.348 Win.
9.  Should have used a JDJ cartridge.
10.  Should have done a .50 Alaskan.
11.  Should have used a 20” barrel.
12.  Should have had a spiral magazine.
13.  Should have used a blued, octagonal 24” barrel.
14.  Forget the whole thing, it's D.O.A.
15.  Forget the whole thing, I can't operate the lever.
16.  Forget the whole thing, it's not readily available.
17.  Forget the whole thing, its got that stupid safety.
18.  Forget the whole thing, ammo will cost $40 a box.
19.  Forget the whole thing, too much recoil and noise.
20.  Forget the whole thing, I'd rather it was a .45-70 pump.
21.  Forget the whole thing, I already have long range rifles.
22.  Forget the whole thing, "i'm just too old & don't like change."
23.  Forget the whole thing, it solves a problem that doesn't exist.
24.  Forget the whole thing, just get a bolt gun in .308 Win or .30-06.
25.  Forget the whole thing, just get a bolt gun for your sniping needs.
26.  Forget the whole thing, if I want long range I’ll get a Sharps or Ballard.
27.  Forget the whole thing, someone will load it with regular spitzer bullets.
28.  Forget the whole thing, the .308 Marlin has not passed the test of time.
29.  Forget the whole thing, leverguns weren't intended to have such capabilities.
30.  Forget the whole thing, it won't do anything a .30-30 at the same pressures won't do.
31.  Forget the whole thing, if you buy one you are doomed to buying factory ammo forever.
32.  Forget the whole thing, "because I am too old to realize a gain in performance and value of this new caliber."
33.  Forget the whole thing, just get a Winnie in .307 or a Savage 99 or a Browning BLR or a Winnie/Browning 1895.
34.  Forget the whole thing, new Marlin rifles have a "cheapness" about them that precludes any interest in them as a whole.
35.  Forget the whole thing, the .308 Marlin Express "would NOT make a good Black Bear caliber.  Unless you are shooting Cubs."
36.  It must be a lie, you can't get .307 velocities from a smaller case withhout pressures higher than a .307.
37.  Should have just manufactured the Savage 99 under license.
38.  Why reinvent the wheel (.307 and Savage .300)?
39.  The ammo will cost too much.
40.  You can’t match factory ballistics.
41.  You can’t even match factory muzzle velocity.
42.  You can't get the brass.
43.  You can’t get the bullets.
44.  You can't get bullets in the same weight.
45.  You can't get the powder.
46.  You can't get the dies.
47.  The powders aren’t available so its really just a .30-30 XLR.
48.  Don’t like the way the XLR looks.
49.  Don't like Marlins, why should I like this one?
50.  The .30-30 can kill at 200 yards and beyond – what’s the point?
51.  The XLR will cost too much.
52.  2” groups at 200 yards is not match-grade ammo.
53.  Its just a scam by greedy companies to get your money.
54.  Marlin should have spent their “finite resources” to improve the accuracy of ALL their rifles.
55.  Marlin should have spent their “finite resources” to introduce novel/better open sights.
56.  Marlin should have spent their “finite resources” to make periodic runs of guns chambered for obsolete cartridges.
57.  Marlin should have spent their “finite resources” to introduce a ‘tactical’ 1894.
58.  Marlin should have spent their “finite resources” to introduce a pump-action .357/.44/.45.
59.  Sharp-pointed bullets don’t offer anything over RN or FN bullets, so what’s the point.
60.  Old timers figured if they could hit a piece of typing paper they were sighted in, why does Marlin need to be different?
61.  Most game is taken at 100-150 yards tops, why do we need something that reaches further?
62.  The .30-30 has taken Africa’s Big Five, why do we need anything else?
63.  You don’t need the extra energy the .308 Marlin provides as the .30-30 can kill a 200-pound deer at 230 yards.
64.  You don’t need the extra trajectory the .308 Marlin provides as the .30-30 can kill a 200-pound deer at 230 yards.
65.  The extra range of the .308 Marlin will just encourage people to take shots at ranges they shouldn’t attempt.
66.  I won’t buy a .308 Marlin because Marlin didn’t answer a letter I wrote them.
67.  The trend toward modernizing traditional designs is a waste of time – it can’t be done.
68.  You can’t use the .308 Marlin’s extra range without a scope, and scoping a levergun is just wrong.
69.  I won’t buy a .308 Marlin because Marlin won’t build rifles chambered for the obsolete cartridges I want – and I know two other guys that want them, too!

LOL_______LOL now that some funny stuff I've read just about every reason

by the way I'am still going to get one

[RicMic]

While I won't be able to match factory ballistics, it will be a big jump up from the .30-30 - about 400fps with either bullet weight.  I can live with that...   

I didn't think of it in terms of 30-30 performance gain.   A good way to look at it!