A short rant...

[heavyrecoil]

RE: various online classifieds and "auction" sites, what is the deal with:

Charging extra fees for the use of credit/debit cards, when I can walk into any store and NOT be hit with those charges? Not to mention the fact that credit/debit cards are good for the seller because they provide instant, verified, funds-- and are good for the buyer because thay provide a "paper" trail of accountability (vs. cash or check) in case of dirtbag/dishonest seller.

-and-

Bogus "starting" prices that are nowhere near the "reserve" price of an item, like an auction I saw for a NIB Beretta White Onyx on Gunbroker that had a "starting" price of 99 cents and a "buy it now" price (usually close to whatever the reserve price actually is) of $1600. What's the point?

[victorcharlie]

Actually, there is a 5% surcharge to merchants accepting credit cards.  The cost is passed on to the consumer in the retail price.

Most large retail chains offer their own card because if a customer uses it it lowers the rate the merchant is charged.

If a chain can get enough people using their "branded" card then they can negotiate the charge, and thus make more profit.

As most firearms have a relatively small 6 to 15% margin, a 5% hit removes most if not all profitability.

Not much money made on guns.....the money is made in accessories such as cleaning supplies, holsters, etc.....

[jhm]

Victor Charlie is telling you right, It cost the retailer just to have the service even if it isnt used, you need to do lots of volume and have your prices up a certain % just to stay ahead, and dont forget the taxes I hate them, but remember its the buyer who is to pay the Taxes not the merchant, he is only to collect them and pass it on to the state.   JIM

[30-30man]

I've seen some local stores try to charge extra fees for credit card use but it just costs them business in the long run. Most businesses want you to use it as a debit or atm withdrawal.  That way you the customer are stuck with the fees.  I know of a large gas station near my home that has a big sign that says "keep prices low, use your debit card."  My bank charges $2.50 every time I use my card as debit.  It is the same as using another bank's atm machine.  They charge nothing if I use it as a credit. Customers won't stand for extra fees.  They'll shop elsewhere, it won't take long before that policy is abandoned.

[Will Bison]

I've been in retail for several years and I take credit cards. I pay three percent to process the transaction. I also give 10 percent discounts to local customers or regular customers. My average margin is 40-80 percent. Some items, like books, only bring about 20 percent. I always give the customer the choice of cash, check, debit or credit. I take out of State checks. On rare occasions I get burned but overall it works for me.

[sparsons]

my brother owns a small general store. We recently started taking credit cards. Believe me they are not free to the store owner. We had to run a special telephone line, every month a fee for the credit card machine, 30 to 45 cents every time we run a card, fee depends if it credit or debit. On top of all that they take a certain percentage of the profit. People will come in and actually charge a bottle of pop which is $1.05 tax and all. At 40cents a pull the store goes in debt on those sales. Do the math 99cents for pop credit card people take their 40cents a pull that leaves 59 cents then deduct their take of the sale--getting the picture yet? Till I got on the other side of the counter I had no idea people would charge on their credit card less than a dollar and it is very common to have sales less than $3. Cheap pack of cig.. one beer, can of pop. candy bars on sale--the list goes on. If they want money back on their credit card the the charges really  pile up on the store owner. I refused one lady who wanted to charge a 55 cent can of pop! I personally think the credit card company should pay the store owner for letting people charge.  But guess what they get into both the store owners and the customers pockets.

[BlkHawk73]

  I flatly refuse to do business with any merchant expecting a %fee for using a card as payment.  If they actually read thier agrement with the compnay, they'd see such a practice is against the agreement they signed.  I'll pay more from another merchnat before saving a bit and then paying an extra % for using my card.  I've heard of some businesses losing thier card servcie for this practice.  Good riddance.
  For auctions...yeah not all sellers are geniuses.  If you want to see something and have a reserve of $1000 start the bidding at a respectable amount - $800 or so.   what better are those fools that have an opening bid and then a "buy it now" amount of maybe a dollar more.  they have to pay for each additioan, so that Buy it now option cost them more than it was worth in the long run.
 the biggest "Why?" in auctions is if there's already 5 items on a site for sale and at most the price is $500, why start you item and more than that?  Surely someone's gona go for the lesser amount item.  I see this a lot on GunsAmerica where abunch of identical items will have prices differnt by hundred dollars or more.  Don't the sellers do their homework first?

[victorcharlie]

The short of it is......credit cards are a bad deal for the consumer and the merchant.  The only one that makes money is the bank........Credit is a trap.......don't step in the trap.......

I understand that some things one has to have credit for such as a home........one wants, but doesn't necessarily need things such as a new car....gun, or ect..........if you have to have credit to complete the transaction.

Credit is the most aggressively marketed product in the world.  The instant gradification of buy it now pay later leads many people into substained suffering...........

As for the "security" of buying something on credit so that you might leverage the credit card company against the party who sold a defective product.......well....maybe worth something........maybe not.....still a poor excuse to do business that way.....

The borrower is always a slave to the lender...........set yourselves free!

[30-30man]

I believe credit is a direct reason for inflation.  Prices go up becasue peope just charge it...This practice is affecting or will affect most of our children.  The tuition at most colleges an universities has doubled in the last ten years because of credit.  Students just pay it and then have student loans for the next 20 years.  The sad thing is fellows, they target the very young.  You go to any college campus  to watch a football game and you'll see the credit card vultures hanging out around the student center offering chessy free gifts to lure kids into this trap.  They know that broke college kids will rack up a bill for mommy and daddy to pay.  My neice got one and didn't even have a job.  Citibank didn't care.  They just wanted the $15 a month payment. They lobbied for tougher restrictions on bankrupcy but wanted nothing to stop them from  preying on our children.   Wells Fargo, Citibank, are the worst at preying on children.  I put them in the same category as thieves.  They offer deals that sound too good to be true and have so many fees and penalties that you can't pay the balance off even if you had the cash.  Wells Fargo is the only bank that I know of that won't let you pay the balance off on some cards ahead of time.  You enter in the agreement to hold the card for two years and carry a balance of a minimal amount.  Now, that's crooked to do business that way with our kids.  The kids don't read this and don't care.  The credit card companies know that mom and dad will bail them out.  We need tougher lending laws to restrict these practices.  I know at age 18 our children are considered an adult but they are often suckered into deals like this becasue they lack the experience to know the truth about credit cards... I just hate big banks and their greed.  Sorry for the long post....But I HATE EM

[WylieKy]

I would go a step farther with the college situation.  STUDENT LOANS MUST STOP.  Many will not understand that, but in the industry I work in I see it every day.  Student loans are ruining our educational system by supply and demand.  Someone in my grandfathers generation with a BS or Masters could pretty much write their own ticket in life.  Now someone with a BS can barely find a job.  A HIGHER EDUCATION IS NOT A GOD GIVEN RIGHT.  It is a privilege, and only those that can afford a higher education or are gifted enough and disciplined enough to EARN a scholarship deserve to get one.  I deal with people with every day that have 10's-100's of thousands of dollars in student loans, can barely write their own name, and can't find a job.  These people should have been dock workers, delivery men, or fry cooks (not that these jobs are easy or unnecessary, no offense meant.)  My best friend is a genius, literally, and got a degree in anthropology with a minor in Latin American studies.  Luckily, he is a genius, and his parents are rich.  He has started a C&C machining and metal stamping factory in China from the ground up (for the Chinese market, I might ad) and is doing quite well.  However, 99% of the people with thousands and thousands of dollars in student loans with a similar degree are going to be fry cooks with a big student loan payment, instead of just plain fry cooks.  I think that student loans should only be granted for real world degrees, engineering, medical, etc.... Liberal arts are fine if you are a rich genius, but for the taxpayer to finance 4-12 years of boozing at a 30000.00 a year university so a hippy can put off adulthood a little longer is ridiculous.

WylieKy

PS.  Credit cards are bad, and cause an instant 5% inflation for everyone.   

[Heavy C]

Interesting take on student loans Wylie.  I agree with your point of view to an extent.  However, student loans are not the only issue.  The issue that sent things spiraling out of control here in Texas was when Gov. Perry decided to deregulate tuition because the state cut funding for education.  Students and their parents all of a sudden saw increases on average of about 36% from one year to the next.  That caused a lot of families that were able to pay on their own scramble for additional funds.  Secondly, with the Federal Family Education Loan Program the annual loan limits have not changed in accordance with inflation or the deregulation of tuition.  This ushered in Private Loans.  This has basically been the equivalent of credit cards for student loans.  They are credit based, not backed by the feds and provide much larger sums of money.  The way I see it, it's a shovel given to families to dig a deeper hole.  Everyone deserves a shot at higher education, but nothing says you have to finish in 4 yrs and rack up $100k in debt.

I not only work in the student loan industry, but also do financial planning as a side business.  What I see, as someone pointed out earlier, is a culture that expects instant gratification and assumes debt as a part of every-day life.  Financial literacy is very low in our society as a whole.  Credit cards are another ball of wax that is just trouble.  The fees people charge on auction websites gets under my skin too.  The way I see it, it's just a part of doing business for the business owner.  It seems it would be worth it to create more opportunities to sell rather than turn away folks because you don't offer credit card services.

[Haywire Haywood]

Wylie.... so if you're rich and stupid you can get an education, but if you're poor you have to be especially gifted?

I think a better solution to the college thing is to cut all the useless fluff from the curriculum that everyone is forced to pay for.  If a student is there to learn how to be a chemical engineer, there is no point in him/her being forced to take (and pay for) psychology or world history, ART in any form, or any of the other unrelated useless subjects now being pushed on the student population.  The colleges have padded their curriculums so they can pad their pockets and hire teachers with pointless degrees.

there's my rant,
Ian

[gypsyman]

Here is a subject close to my heart. My wife, just last week, finished with her Masters in Medical Lab, Tech, and now has 6 months of clinicals. She will not get paid for the clinicals, even though she''ll be doing some work, not just learning. She was forced to buy books from the University, written by proffessors that teach there. (the proffessors didn't teach the class, as that's against the law) but she had them the semestor before!!! If she would have to take a foreign language if she had gone to one of the other university's in the area. President's of the schools are making $250,000 a year, or more, and a house and car for benifits. But, the one that really ticked me off, is she got a $5 parking ticket, for having her car parked with the front end facing out of the parking spot. She pulled thru the spot, so she wouldn't have to back out when she left. As far as I'm concered, college now days is as big a scam as they get. The saving grace is that 2 Medical Labs have already told her she will probably have a good paying job, when she gets done with clinicals. Problem is, I have heard form quite a few college grads, their having a tough time finding jobs. She'll be one of the lucky ones!!-gypsyman

[30-30man]

We voted on the lottery here in SC because it was suspose to give teachers a raise, provide scholarships and bring down the price of college.  Since then tuition has doubled, we still have the lottery, and only 13% of students keep the scholarship for more than two years.  They lose it on grades and have to take out loans.  I agree with cutting the student loans.  The tuition even these public colleges are charging is nuts.  USC just raised Steve Spurrier's salary to over 2 million a year so I guess that is where our priorities are; they are not with helping our children. 

[victorcharlie]

  USC just raised Steve Spurrier's salary to over 2 million a year so I guess that is where our priorities are; they are not with helping our children. 

How much revenue does USC's football team generate?  Spurrier as well as Lou Holt have probably done more to boost ticket sales and TV contracts than any other department or activity at USC......and thus provide a revenue stream that justifies the salary and helps offset operational cost at the University. 

Quite honestly, USC, IMO, should consider themselves very lucky to have either of these fine coaches........

It's the players who should complain......they do get a scholarship but can't take so much as a pair of shoes from anyone........

By the way, I'm a die hard Vol fan.......but admire Spurrier's coaching talent........He seems to find a way to win.....hard to argue with success......

[Little Joe]

I personally think the credit card company should pay the store owner for letting people charge.  But guess what they get into both the store owners and the customers pockets.



I couldn’t agree more with what Sparsons said. The banks should be paying the store owner. 

Little Joe

[WylieKy]

Wylie.... so if you're rich and stupid you can get an education, but if you're poor you have to be especially gifted?

Yep, that sums it up.  I don't have the right to tell people how to spend their own money, but I think I should have a say in how they spend MY money.  I think anyone that can afford it should get an education if they want one, but it is a luxury, not a right.  Being poor  shouldn't get you special rights to a luxury. 

WylieKy

[williamlayton]

HUUUMMMMMM! This should be read--then re-read because I want no one to misunderstand.
Being poor should not cause anyone to remain poor.
What we need are motivated, skilled, talented and educated leadership in all areas of this nation.
What we have--for the most part--are folks who are greedy, lazy, unworthy of leadersip roles and self-oriented.
Studet loans will level themselves out, IMO, and are not bad at the core.
What is bad/sad is the quality of the results of those who are in leadership today.
It is not about building--it is about getting.
I was friendly with an oil-man of some amount of fame, here in Houston, when I was much younger. he said it was not about the money, though he enjoyed the reward, it was mostly about the process and making something work that drove him.
Blessings

[WylieKy]

I do not think being poor should prevent anyone who is intelligent and dedicated from getting an education.  They should get scholarships.  As I said, I deal with people that can barely speak English (and I don't mean they are foreign) that have thousands of dollars in FFELP and/or Perkins loans.  I was raised by my grandparents from the time I was 14 on and was told up front that if I wanted an education I would be doing it on my own merits.  They would not pay, and they shouldn't have, but because my grandfather worked 70 hours a week at Ford for 40 years and they owned their own house, I did not qualify for any grants and little in the way of financial aid. So,  I worked hard, got decent grades, and got a full ride to Ohio Northern University.  $32000.00+ a year at the time.  I got there and was surrounded by those that did not work hard and barely got grades good enough to get in.  Their qualification included such astounding accomplishments as being poor, being single parents, and/or a minority.  Usually all three.  The vast majority did the minimum to get by for a year or two before flunking out with 60000+ in student loans to lead an exciting life on welfare.

WylieKy

[williamlayton]

Was there not one who you were associated with that was deserving, got good grades and paid back the loans??
Scholarships are a free ride, while appreciated, are there enough to go around? The results of most studies seem to indicate that there are not enough.
My daughter-in-law could get no such scholarship, and she is a minority, but worked and went too school (the job/jobs offered no ed. benefits). She finished her bachelors this semester and is beginning her masters while working full time-with a child and mortgage. The same for my son-in-law (also a minority) but he has student loans to repay.
I don't see your point. There are a number of reasons a person may try and fail but I can't see exclaiming that all are bad apples-even the ones who flunk out. They tried and it may be that they had not been prepared. It may be that they determined a different road.
I know that it is difficult for the majority to get an education if they can get no financial backing at home--it can be done, but not in the usual time frame.
Please reconsider your stance--it seems too condemning too me.
Blessings

[WylieKy]

williamlayton,
1. Yes there are quite a few that work hard, get an education, and go on to be successful.

2. Both of you in-laws sound like the kind of people I enjoy working with.  It sounds like the both work and  take care of their responsibilities.

3. Rereading my posts, I do come off a little too hardcore.  Let me backtrack a little.  I think student loans should be much harder to get than they are.  They are the #1 reason tuition is as expensive as it is, and the #1 reason a BS is worth as little as it is.  Because almost everyone can get a student loan, the sky is the limit for tuition (just like insurance and health care), and because almost everyone can get a student loan, a BS is worth just a little more than BS because everyone has one (supply and demand.)  I think that there needs to be a major overhaul in the system (along with most of our systems), I just don't know where to start other than scraping the existing program and starting over.

WylieKy

WylieKy

[victorcharlie]

I just don't know where to start other than scraping the existing program and starting over.

You can start by voting libertarian.