357 or 45 colt?

[m-g Willy]

I use a 44 mag. loaded with 240gr. JHP at about 1450 fps. for deer hunting. And this load works great for hunting.
But!!! It has to much penetration and recoil for a defence weapon.
I carry a 4" 357 loaded with 158gr. JHP at 1200 fps for a defence gun .
I also carry a 4" 45colt loaded with 250gr. swc at 900 fps.
The thing is ,is that I thought the 45 was as good as the 357 when it came to knock down power.
Until the other day when I used both guns in pin shooting.
While both guns would knock the pins off the table with the same hit, the 357 load would REALLY send the pin flying ,compared to the same hit with the 45 colt.
I know shooting bowling pins has nothing to do with shooting a living thing but the differance between the two loads surprised me.
My question is , -----since I never used either the 357 or the 45 load on deer or anything else the size of a deer.
Which load would be better for self defence?
Anyone with any first hand accounts with these loads I would like to hear your opinion--

Willy

[obxmike]

Hiya!

Either load would do very well as a S.D. load....I would tend to favor the weapon that you're most proficient with, and feel most comfortable carrying.
I favor a slower velocity load in a S.D. weapon to lessen the chance of a pass-through shot harming a bystander. I pack a 340sc loaded with .38+p, even though it's rated for full .357 loads.
IMHO, the .45 would be a more potent stopper (bigger pill, bigger wound channel) than a hot .357, which may not expand well at S.D. range.
Consider also that any encounter would most likely be at very close range, so long distance accuracy and long distance knock down power really don't come into play in a "normal" S.D. situation.

Best,

Mike

[Lawdog]

I use(and have used) 230 gr. Hydra-Shok JHP ahead of 8.7 grs. of Win. 571 for 900(+/-) fps. out of my Les Baer Premier II 6” or my Glock 21’s.  Tremendous knock down power and feeds flawlessly.  I find this load is easier to control out of my .45’s than any 1200 plus fps. load from any of my .357’s and, most importantly, I trust this load.  This load worked before and I have complete confidence it will work again, when or if necessary.  Lawdog
 

[Mikey]

Your 45 Colt load with a 255 swc at 900'/sec is a better self defense load thna the 158 gn 357 at 1200'/sec - that 357 load overpenetrates like mad.  The 45 load will  overpenetrate too, but leaves a bigger hole and a square one at that.  

I agree with the Lawdog in his findings - the 45 is easier to control.  Also, in the 357 the most successful anti-personel load is the 125 gn hp at 1425'/sec from a 4" duty gun.  You may find yourself much more comfortable with the 45 Colt load.  HTH.  Mikey.

[Cottonwood]

I use a 44 mag. loaded with 240gr. JHP at about 1450 fps. for deer hunting. And this load works great for hunting.
But!!! It has to much penetration and recoil for a defence weapon.
Willy

Willy I have to agree with the others about the 45 Colt, it is a very good defensive round.

But since you have a .44 mag already have you considered using .44 Special loads.

Here is some data:

Hodgdon 44 spl data
240 GR. CAST LSWC .429 dia.
 
 H4227 13.2 947fps
 HS-6 8.0 917fps
 UNIVERSAL 5.6 873fps
 HP-38 5.2 858fps
 TITEGROUP 4.8 862fps
 CLAYS 4.0 771fps

Factory JSP loads are avail in the .44 spl as well.

Hodgdon .45 Colt data
260 GR. SPR GDHP .452 dia
 
 HS-6 10.7 865fps
 UNIVERSAL 8.0 813fps
 HP-38 7.1 787fps
 TITEGROUP 6.3 797fps

 
300 GR. SIE JFP COL: 1.670"
 
 HS-6 10.0 730fps
 UNIVERSAL 7.3 700fps
 TITEGROUP 5.8 682fps

Again factory JSP loads are available for this cartridge.

These are very controlable loads, and dang accurate for COM shots as well as follow ups should you need to.  I at one time had one of the old Charter Arms Bulldogs in .44 spl, and even though it was only a 5 shot revolver, I never felt under gunned.

There are some great .45 Colt revolvers out now as well.  But what ever you carry, shot placement is everything.

[Dusty Miller]

Mikey, could you please tell us more about the "square hole" left by that 45 Colt SWC?  I can't claim a lot of expertise about terminal ballistics but that's a new one on me! :grin:

[Lawdog]

Mikey, could you please tell us more about the "square hole" left by that 45 Colt SWC?  I can't claim a lot of expertise about terminal ballistics but that's a new one on me! :grin:

I think that maybe what “Mikey” is talking about is many of the bullets that mushroom leaving "four“razor sharp” petals(like Barnes X bullets and others) leave a exit wound that, for the most part, is square.  I have noticed this on both animals and humans.  Lawdog
 

[m-g Willy]

Sorry I  didn't make myself clear :oops:
I know  what high vel. and a heavy bullet will do,
what I wanted to know was how the 357 load stacked up to the 45 load mentioned in my post stacked up in the real world.
I know what the books and numbers say but does anyone have first hand experience with these loads when it comes to stopping power?
 --Willy

[prairiedog555]

I read a interview a few years ago of an old time lawman (forgot name) and when asked about handguns his expert view was that the .45 colt was the best "man stopper" he had ever seen.  He recounted numerous incidents involving gunfights and 1 shot stops.
The backround of the interview was when the 9mm with small fast bullits was being touted as a better stopper than the .45 acp.  He didn't think so.  And I think the FBI rpt after the miami gunfight was that if you carry a 9mm use 147gr. hydorshock.  In a handgun bigger bullit is best.

[jimster]

Both loads you listed are really good loads, but I'll tell you why I like the 45 colt. Cause for some reason it doesn't make me go deaf for 3 weeks when I touch it off in the woods with no hearing protection. Something about the pitch of the 357 that makes my ears ring real bad. 45 Colt isn't as bad for some reason, at least to me.
Also, a SWC in 45 Colt going 900 fps will cut a hole all the way through and there will be blood pumping out both sides of whatever you shoot. I like the weight of 45 Colt bullets to. Not sure if shooting wood pins will tell what does more damage or not, wouldn't want to get hit with either of those calibers.