6.5mm Remington Mag - Dead and Buried

[jvs]

Over the past month I have been going nuts trying to find reloading components for 6.5 rem mag, especially brass at a reasonable price.  It seems that alot of places either don't carry it, or can't get more supplies.  Rumor has it that 6.5 rem mag brass production will only take place once a year, for a limited time.  I now have plenty of emptys, and I have a place where I can get more, for now.  But I have to make up my mind about whether I have enough forever or not.

I have found brass for as much a 55 cents a piece at my local gunshop.  He could only get 300 emptys, and had to split them up between a couple of customers.  I found 3 bags at Cabela's for an average of 43 cents a piece and bought them, but when I asked the employee when they will get more in, he looked in the computer and said "we won't, it's been discontinued . 

Even getting Dies has been an adventure.  So far they are available as a special order, at somewhat of a premium price.  Cabela's DOES NOT carry 6.5 rem mag dies.  They sold the rifles, the empty brass, and everything else for reloading but the dies.  Which didn't sit too well with me.

This leads me to believe that the bath Remington took re-introducing the 6.5 mag in the 673 guide rifle didn't go over too well.  And, as of now, I doubt this caliber will ever show up again in the future.

I also believe that the 350 mag may be in the same boat.  If you have either of these two calibers, I suggest you buy all of the brass you can find, and an extra set of dies.

[Siskiyou]

jvs:  Sure looks like you have become a Wildcatter.  Can 6.5 Remington Brass be made from 7MM Remington Mag, or .300 Winchester brass by resizing and trimming?  I know it is a lot work.  Another option would be to rebarrel the rifle to another short action round such as the .260 Remington. or the 7mm-08 which might live longer.  I know that custom die sets are expensive and then you can expect a 90 wait before you recieve them.

[nomosendero]

Remember, he has a magnum boltface.

[spinafish]

I believe it Redding who makes 6.5 Rem. Mag form dies..others may also.  I believe they could be formed from 7mm Mag brass without too much of a hassle.

[spinafish]

here's the link to their catalog page..http://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/caseformdies.html..they also list the .350 Rem. mag form dies.

[spinafish]

Midway USA list 6.5 Rem. Mag dies from Lee, Redding, RCBS, and Foster all available now..and the Lee's are only $20.00.

[Siskiyou]

nomosendero:  I had an Elder Moment  and forgot about the magnum bolt face.  As a reloader I would treat it as a Wildcat and plan for the future.  I believe that owners of other recently introduced short magnums should be taking a look at their new babys and stock up for the future.

MidSouth a Graybeard sponsor currently has 6.5 Remington Magnum dies in stock.  http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/deptsearch2x.asp?dept=%52%45%4C%4F%41%44%49%4E%47&dept2=%44%49%45%53

Midsouth also has dies for a whole bunch of wildcats.  I need to call my brother and let him know they have dies for the 30-40 Krag Improved with a 40 degree shoulder.  He wants to rebarrel his Remmington Rolling Block to that round. 

[lgm270]

6.5 Rem Mag and 350 Rem Mag cases can be formed from any standard belted magnum case including the 375 H&H, 300 Win Mag or 7mm Rem Mag.  A bit of a hassle, but no big deal to someone who is determined to shoot such an unpopular round. 

jvs:  you didn't say what type of 6.5 Rem rifle you have.  I would be interested in knowing why you are so interested in this caliber.  I don't question that it's a good round that may have been wrongfully snubbed by the rifle buying public, I just have an interest in the eccentricities of other rifle enthusiasts, even as many other enthusiiasts have an interest in mine.

Merry Christmas.

[jvs]

I bought a Remington 673 in 6.5 Mag.  I got interested in it from a buddy of mine who swears by it, since he is a shooter of both Rem 600 and 660's.  Actually, I prefer .308's and .30-06's, but this will be something new for me.... to be well under 30 caliber.  Not that I needed to be talked into a smaller bore, but this one got my attention for some reason.  I dont know exactly why, but this one intrigues me.   All of my smaller caliber rifles are in the 22 or 224 catagory.   I had none between 224 and 30 until now, so I have alot to learn.  I can pick up some pointers from my friend who has been shooting it for 35 years.

But I think what ticks me off the most is when big stores sell the rifles, sometimes the ammo, and most reloading supplies, but they don't sell the Dies for the very same Rifles that are pushed over the counter.  Right now alot of them dont even carry the ammo.  Ammo, Powder and Primers tend to be alot less expensive if you buy them in person, as opposed to having it shipped with the Hazmat fee.  I would not hesitate to buy any other reloading supply over the internet though.  And I have done so.

I did find Dies on the internet, but when you consider that I was already in Cabelas buying Hazmat Supplies, I should have been able to buy the Dies and/or Ammo there. Especially since they had a couple of 6.5 Rem Mags and a few .350 Mags on the Rack.  No Dies, Brass or Ammo for the .350 Mag in the store either.

Go figure.

[Don Fischer]

I've got the dies, cases and all other necessary reloading component's. Can get most of it thru Cabelas but I can't get the rifle. 6.5x06, go figure!!

[jvs]

I've got the dies, cases and all other necessary reloading component's. Can get most of it thru Cabelas but I can't get the rifle. 6.5x06, go figure!!

I was amazed at how many dies they they did have actually.  They had such exotic dies there that the Customer Service Rep didn't have an answer for me as to why they didn't have 6.5 mag dies, especially since they had the rifles on the rack.  What makes the 6.5 mag and the 350 mag so special that nothing is available is beyond me.

I'm beginning to wonder if there is some Proprietary fighting going on some where, with the rifle buyers left in the dust.

Basically, I am not a tinkerer.  I like things simple.  So when I buy something like this, I prefer to get supplies that are made for it, as opposed to making my own.  I really don't have time to make custom cartridges for it.  I would rather hunt the factory brass down.  I can and will reload, but making custom cartridges is out.  I know what I'm good at and what I might not be so good at.  I stay within my limits, instead of proving that the "Survival of the Fittest" theory also applies to me.   

I had my place in the Sun.  All I need now is to have something simple to work with.  I don't do things just because I can any more.   My fun is putting them together and making them shoot in a respectable group.

This 6.5 mag is probably my last adventure in a new caliber for me.  I think I picked one that will keep me busy.


 

 

[Slamfire]

You said you have brass, dies don't have a hazmat fee, and bullets don't either. Powders and primers are available at the big box sporting goods stores, at least those that carry reloadin' supplies. I personally think the 6.5 Rem Mag is just about the limit of 6.5mm bore capacity. The bigger cases don't add much velocity. My old elk huntin' pard carried a 600 in 6.5 mag, and with the 129 Horndy bullets he could put the sudden death on cows and ragheads. 

[jvs]

My old elk huntin' pard carried a 600 in 6.5 mag, and with the 129 Horndy bullets he could put the sudden death on cows and ragheads. 

Hornady 129 SP Interlock - 54 gr IMR 4831 - Rem 9½M - is the recipe I have for 6.5 Mag success.   Roughly 40 cents a piece to reload, at todays prices, not including the initial cost of brass.

6½ boxes of ammo out of one pound of powder.  This is why I need 6.5 Mag Brass.  I don't have the time to Monkey around making cartridges out of something else.

I might try the 129 SST's or some 140 CoreLokts or 140 InterBonds too.   

[264 WIN MAG]

I am having the same problem right now. The guy that loads for me said he was going to take either some 7MM-Mag or 300 Mag brass and use it, but it would have another caliber stamped on the brass so I'll have to magic marker "264" on the side of every round...

[jvs]

I see 264 Win Mag Brass alot more than I see 6.5 Mag.  Over the weekend I saw plenty of 264 Win Mag brass, but not one 6.5 Mag.

I just placed an order over the internet for (500) 6.5 Mag Brass.  Now I don't have to worry. 


P.S. While I typing this reply, the place I ordered the 6.5 mag brass from called me to tell me that they only had (400) 6.5 mag cases left.  I asked them if they would sell me the final 400 at the same per piece price as it would be for 500.  They agreed to do that.   While I would have preferred to get the full 500, I am just as happy with 400 at the same per-unit price as 500.  And I also know that this supply is now exhausted.  Good Luck to anyone who needs some 6.5 mag brass.  It is going fast. I also know where to get another 150 if I really need it.

As long as they don't call me back again and say they dont have any at all, I'll be happy.

[S.S.]

Another great cartridge that really did not catch on.

[nomosendero]

I see 264 Win Mag Brass alot more than I see 6.5 Mag.  Over the weekend I saw plenty of 264 Win Mag brass, but not one 6.5 Mag.

I just placed an order over the internet for (500) 6.5 Mag Brass.  Now I don't have to worry. 


P.S. While I typing this reply, the place I ordered the 6.5 mag brass from called me to tell me that they only had (400) 6.5 mag cases left.  I asked them if they would sell me the final 400 at the same per piece price as it would be for 500.  They agreed to do that.   While I would have preferred to get the full 500, I am just as happy with 400 at the same per-unit price as 500.  And I also know that this supply is now exhausted.  Good Luck to anyone who needs some 6.5 mag brass.  It is going fast. I also know where to get another 150 if I really need it.

As long as they don't call me back again and say they dont have any at all, I'll be happy.

Problem solved,I know that you have other rifles, so this supply will last a lifetime plus whoever you pass the gun down to.

[jvs]

I was wondering why not one person in this thread asked me why it was so imperative that I find the supplies I seek RIGHT NOW .

Well, It is my understanding that prices for Ammo and reloading supplies are about to move higher.  If what I am hearing is true, finding 6.5 mag brass was of utmost importance to me because this caliber is inherently more expensive to shoot, as are a few other calibers.   Add in scarcity and a hefty price increase and 6.5 mag brass becomes even more so.  I have seen suggested retail prices for next year, I also have seen new prices on the shelf for newly ordered ammo and supplies which already carry next years price increases.  I have been told, by a gunshop owner that I really trust, that empty 6.5 Mag Brass will be "Somewhere around $1 a piece". 

Old price for 6.5 Mag Ammo - $24.99.  Next years price for 6.5 Mag ammo - $31.00 on average.

The price of metals may put a financial kink in your hobby.   Add in the fact that the 6.5 Mag is more than likely now a dead caliber, and things could get nasty.


nomosendero,

You got it bro !  The person who buys from my collection will have no reloader suppy problems.  If I ever have to sell the 6.5 mag, I will have an incentive for the buyer.  Wouldn't you be more interested in a 6.5 Mag that came with 1000 pcs of Hornady bullets and 1000 pcs of Remington Brass ?

I will have plenty for me, and enough for the next guy. 

[264 WIN MAG]

How much of a difference is there in a 6.5mm Mag and a 264 Mag? I would have assumed they would have been close...

[jvs]

6.5 Rem Mag is a short action, I believe I read somewhere that a .264 win mag is a long action.  Besides that, I don't think there is much of a difference.  You might be able to get more powder in your casings, it all depends on how much pressure your rifle will take.  I would top out at about 3100(+/-) fps in a 6.5 mag.  I believe you would also.

Twist rate in a 6.5 mag is usually 1:8 or 1:9, depending on manufacturer.  Sometimes 140gr and heavier bullets don't do well in a 6.5 mag.  You would have to look up what your rate of twist is, which could tell you what weight bullet you might do better with.  Generally speaking, the 6.5 mag does well with 120 gr to 130 gr bullets with those quick twists.

Up until recently, the barrel length in a 6.5 mag was almost always 18 1/2 or 20 inches.  Since 2003 some were produced with 22 inch barrels.  I don't know the history of barrel length for the .264 win mag. 

Because of the price of proprietary Brass, both are inherently more expensive to shoot.  With the 6.5 mag dropping out of production, and with Winchester on the brink of falling into "No Man's Land", both will become a lot more expensive to shoot in time to come, as will almost every caliber.  I believe 6.5 mag components will be a little more pricey than the .264 mag.  Although it could be a tie.

I don't expect to ever see another Remington produced in 6.5 mag.  Well, not in my lifetime. 

The .264 mag may have a similar outcome.  I don't see much of a demand for tooling up for either.

[264 WIN MAG]

Ah, I see now. The 264 is a long action. I am shooting around 3100FPS in the 140gr. rounds. More around 3400-3500 in the 120gr. My rate of twist is 1 in 9. There were two different twist rates with the 264 mag. The originals were a 1 in 8 I believe and from everything I have heard the 1 in 8 seems to shoot 120gr. bullets great, while the 1 in 9 twist seems to shoot the 140gr. bullets great. Mine has the 24" barrel, but has the B.O.S.S. on the end so I think it ends up over 26" total.

I have tried the 120gr. bullets in my 264 mag and they shot decent, but nothing compared to the 140gr. With the 140gr. bullets I can consistently put up .5" groups, and sometimes smaller at 100 yards.

I just think it's a shame that the rifle never caught on because it seems everything in the 6.5MM class is just a tack driver.

[jvs]

With a 1:9 twist you should be able to shoot Hornady 129gr Interlock very decently.  I would also try changing brands of primers.  Sometimes just changing brand of primer can tighten up a group.

I hear that a 129gr Interlock and a 9 1/2M Remington Primer with 54 gr of 4831 is a decent load for the 6.5 Mag.  A look in a Hornady Handbook might give you a hint if it works just as good in the Win Mag.

I wouldn't think there would be that much difference.  Although it might take a different measurement of powder.

If I were you I would try the 129gr in different loads.  You might be surprised.

[264 WIN MAG]

I haven't tried the 129gr. bullets. I have tried the 120gr. Barnes TSX and the 125gr. Nosler Partition. Without a doubt the 140gr. Partitions will outshoot either of those...

[Sourdough]

I have two .350 Rem Mags.  When they quite loading for them I ordered brass from midway.  When it arrived it was reshaped 7MM Mag brass.  I've been using it and it works just fine.  Confusses some folks tho when they take the gun out and it says .350 and the headstamp on the brass says 7MM.  I then have to explain about the shells no longer being made.  Any way I have 300 empties, I think that will do me for the rest of my life, I only use them when hunting bears.

[daddywpb]

I got a Ruger M77 in 350 Rem Mag a couple months ago. I ordered everything from Midway without a problem, although some of it is more expensive than more common calibers. The only thing I couldn't find was a Lee factory crimp die. Lee didn't list one, but for about $30 they custom made me one and it works perfectly. The .350 is easy on brass. I have a couple hundred of them and it should last a LONG time. By the way, the brass I got from Midway is new Remington and is headstamped for the .350.

A great caliber. My favorite rifle.

[Lone Star]

Gotta chuckle at a "panic buying" mentality.   Last month there was no 6.5 brass so the world was coming to an end.  Today Midway lists .350 Mag brass as available in 20, 100 or 500 lots, and 6.5 Mag cases can be formed from it with a simple pass through the FL die and a short trim.  Hornady, Lee, RCBS and Redding dies are available too.  Gee.

The .264 has considerably more case capacity than the 6.5 does, and in equal length barrels (26") Hodgdon shows max loads with the 140s of 2943fps for the 6.5 and 3163fps for the .264 - that's 220 fps more velocity from the .264, and 415 more fpe.  With the heavier bullets the .264 is in another power class; just how much difference would be seen in the field is debatable.    


.

[Slamfire]

I like to keep my trajectory within 4" of the line of sight. 200 fps = 25 yards more range. Don't sound like much of an increase to me, kinetic energy figures don't mean squat when it comes to killin' game. 

[jvs]

Gotta chuckle at a "panic buying" mentality.   Last month there was no 6.5 brass so the world was coming to an end.  Today Midway lists .350 Mag brass as available in 20, 100 or 500 lots, and 6.5 Mag cases can be formed from it with a simple pass through the FL die and a short trim.  Hornady, Lee, RCBS and Redding dies are available too. 

There are actually two reasons why I wanted the brass right when I wanted it.  The main one is the metals price increase that didn't hit the brass that was produced already.  If you haven't priced brass, bullets or ammo lately, with the new increases, you may be in for sticker shock.  Anything listed in catalogs is also marked as "call for current prices".  Prices in catalogs that were printed last spring are no longer valid.  The other reason is political.

I also knew 6.5 mag brass can be made of a multitude of different caliber brass, but I would rather have my brass marked as 6.5 mag.  There is no advantage of buying brass marked .350 mag or any other caliber and forming it to 6.5 as of now.  I agree, it could change though.

The comparison of a 6.5 mag and a .264 mag is apples and oranges.  I wanted a short action.  And I wanted a 673 Guide Gun.

[Lone Star]

I like to keep my trajectory within 4" of the line of sight. 200 fps = 25 yards more range. Don't sound like much of an increase to me

True, to you it isn't much of an increase, but a lot  of other hunters don't mind holding over a bit, so for them the difference is more substantial - good or bad, laser range finders have changed the shape of long range hunting.

kinetic energy figures don't mean squat when it comes to killin' game.

Again, perhaps to you it doesn't.  But how about bullet performance, does that matter when it comes to killing game?  That extra velocity can mean the difference between a bullet opening wide and not opening at longer ranges.  And again, lots of other hunters disagree with your comment.

OT - Many armchair hunters thnk that there are special methods for accurately predicting the effect of bullets on game.  Many of them mistakenly believe that Taylor's knock down factor is a good measure of a bullet's killing power.  But they apparently are just parroting what someone else told them, because Taylor wrote something very different.  He stated that for predicting the killing power of a bullet, kinetic energy gives a shurer indication of killing power on thin skinned game. 

.