Maybe a Dumb Question....Are we over saturated with calibers?

[GrassLakeRon]

Hi all,

     I know I own a few dozen, but in other forums talk about the decline of the short mags and such, do we have to many choices for what is needed?  I like new things, don't get me wrong, but do we have enough, short of a plasma rifle......

Ron

[Siskiyou]

I think the same question could have been asked during the American Civil War.  It must have been a tough job providing ammuntion to the troops.  Just go back and look at the weapons and different calibers in the line of battle.  After the civil war came the westward expansion and the bufflo hunters.  Remington, Sharps, Winchester had their different caliber firearms.  Another surge in different caliber firearms came along with smokeless powder.  And the wheel of commerce continues to turn.  The manufactures know that some will fail, a small percentage will hang in their.

In my short life time there are a number of good rounds introduced and have died, near death, or did not get far from the starting line.  The Remington Ultra Mags, and the Winchester short mags are not bad rounds.  But they have a uphill battle.  Most of them will be gone in ten years.

Then there are the wildcatters.  You just hope the leave good tracks or their investment will be wasted.

A simple rule of thumb is to invest in a round the current or pass military brass can be used to create new brass.  The 30-06, 308, and 7x57 cases are a good example.

P.S.  Surplus Civil War firearms were important in the Westward expansion.

[Coyote Hunter]

...do we have enough, short of a plasma rifle......

Ron

Whether or not we have too many choices for what is needed is a personal decision – some will agree, others will not.  I disagree.

There are a lot of rounds that are barely surviving, some that are thriving, and rounds scattered everywhere in-between.  New cartridges keep getting introduced and the market decides which ones survive.  The most recent spate of short mags are an example and the market has turned thumbs down on most of them. 

There are two new cartridges coming out next spring that I think will generate a lot of enthusiasm – the .308 Marlin Express and the .375 Ruger.  The .308 Marlin is a lower-pressure version of the .307 Winchester and will provide a solution to those that want a longer range .30 in a lever gun.  The Ruger cartridge provides .375 H&H power in a standard-length action and a 20” barrel, at an affordable price.  I want them both.

I think the Ruger case is interesting because it is fatter than a standard Magnum case yet not as fat as cartridges built on a .404 Jefferies case like the Dakota and RUM cartridges.  Ruger eliminated the useless belt, too.  I expect this case will be the parent case for a number of additional cartridges including a .338, .300, 7mm and maybe even a .25. I think it is perhaps the most sensible case to be introduced in a very long time and suspect the case, if not the .375 Ruger, will be a survivor.

[Mac11700]

I agree with you Coyote...the 375 will spawn a-lot of wildcats...but...I'm not so sure about the 308 Express...We'll have to see if other manufactures pick it up...

Mac

[shilo]

I think we're going to see some new cartridges fade away. The 284 was a good round but really didn't offer anything over the 7 mag unless one just had to have a short action. The 7 STW was on fire a couple years ago don't hear much about now. The WSMs don't really offer any improvement over existing rounds. The WSSMs did offer performance improvements with a case design that should have appealed to varmit shooters, but they can't hardly give the 223 WSSMs away. One new caliber I hope to see suceed is the 375 Ruger. Duplicates the time honored 375 H&H in a standard action and in more resonably priced guns. Time will tell.

[wahunterinrok]

That is the beauty of our Country, we may have more cartridges than we need, but that means people can be different and still get the job done.. Some cartridges will come and go, only to come back again, either because of revived interest, or someone comes out with a new gun in that caliber.   Our huge variety just shows one great part of capitalism....   And Merry Crhistmas to all!!!!

[jw4570]

I think it's getting crazy.  Look at a 60's reloading manual, it's real sparse with calibers.

However, I do welcome it as brass for some old beloved calibers is now available, like 405 Winchester.

We'll see about the 375 Ruger, looks better than the 375 Rem UM. 

JW

[Hairtrigger]

Yes we are.
I shoot woodchucks with 221, 222, 223, 22ppc, 225, 22-250, 22-250ai, and 220 Swift.
Great isn't it?

[Don Dick]

Hairtrigger since you shoot woodchucks answer a question for me.  How much wood can a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck would chuck wood?

[Hairtrigger]

It would chuck as much as a wouldchuck could if a wouldchuck could chuck wood

 

[dpastordan]

  O beautiful for spacious skies...It's America the land of the free!  The answer is both yes and no!  And it is because of our freedom to buy and sell.  The market works.  Growing up, a lot of folks were like my Dad.  He owned two guns..a .22 and a 12 gauge and hunted with them exclusively.  Most folks I knew who owned deer rifles, generally owned one..and when the kids went to college would splurge and get two.  Then there was my uncle.  He had about 30 rifles - from .222 up to .375 H&H Magnum.  He also had about 12 shotguns, several .22 rimfires.  When I visited him five years ago, he showed me one rack of rifles (about 25) and said it was his goal to shoot a deer with each of them.  Calibers ranged from .243 through .30-06, .338 and one .38-55.  Isn't America great!

[Ratltrap]

I'm glad to see some of the new cartridges. For one reason or another the shortmags have pretty much come and gone so on to the next batch.

Of interest to me is the 375 Ruger. I wish they had simply ressurected the Newton case for the 375 Ruger so we could also see some 30, 33, and 35 Newton rifles, but I'm sure there will be similar wildcats on that completely new case. What they are doing right is eliminating that silly belt we've had for far too long. After all, that was a solution to a problem that hasn't existed for 100 years.

The 308ME is one I'm not hopeful about. IMHO putting a 300 yard cartridge into a 336 action doesn't make it a 300 yard rifle. The ME development has made Marlin do some new engineering on the 336 though so maybe we'll eventually see those improvements across their product line.

[Coyote Hunter]

I'm glad to see some of the new cartridges. For one reason or another the shortmags have pretty much come and gone so on to the next batch.

Of interest to me is the 375 Ruger. I wish they had simply ressurected the Newton case for the 375 Ruger so we could also see some 30, 33, and 35 Newton rifles, but I'm sure there will be similar wildcats on that completely new case. What they are doing right is eliminating that silly belt we've had for far too long. After all, that was a solution to a problem that hasn't existed for 100 years.

The 308ME is one I'm not hopeful about. IMHO putting a 300 yard cartridge into a 336 action doesn't make it a 300 yard rifle. The ME development has made Marlin do some new engineering on the 336 though so maybe we'll eventually see those improvements across their product line.

ratltrap -

I agree about the .375 Ruger.  Good ridance to the belt as it no longer serves a purpose.  I want a .375, .338 and .257 Ruger...

You seem to be under the impression that Marlins are not 300-yard rifles.  Last time I was at Whittington Center I had my Marlin .375 Win and .45-70 with me.  After figuring out the drop and windage the 500-meter rams didn't stand a chance.  The final 5 shots with each rifle took 4 rams each.  At the home range both will shoot into 5" at 300 yards without any problem.  Shooting clay pigeons at 200 yards with the .30-30 is a favorite pasttime, and although I miss some its never by much.  I've seen a lot of hunters at sight-in days that couldn't do that well at 100 yards with their bolt guns.  The kill-zone sized steel gongs at 300 yards are easy with any of my Marlins, but the energy levels are less than what I desire with the .30-30 and .375 Win.  THe .308 Marlin will flatten the trajectory, reduce wind drift and greatly enhance energy levels.  I'd take a Marlin in .308 ME even if they weren't making modifications to enhance the rifle's accuracy.

[Ratltrap]

CH - As I already have a very familiar 375 H&H I don't see a 375 Ruger in my future, but maybe a 33 or a 35. 

As you know I'm a big fan of Marlin leverguns and that's fine shootin' of yours indeed. I probably can't match your shooting with my Marlins, but I've done my best to tune them on par with my boltguns and either one of them will shoot handloads off the bench into 1 MOA out to 200 yards. But, yes even with a 300 yard cartridge like the 308ME I'm unconvinced that the 336 can be a legitimate 300 yard game rifle. Sorry, but you aren't going to convince me that wood stocks don't swell when it's wet or shrink when it's dry or that hanging 2-piece stocks and tubular magazines off a barrel doesn't effect accuracy. Even assuming the gun always shoots the same MOA, where will the POI be under field conditions? I know that my Marlins change POI from the bench on an ideal day based only on how they are rested, held, or how many rounds are in the magazine. 'Fraid I'd have to pass on a 300 yard shot at game after a week in the wet from an improvised rest. Same can't be said of any of my boltguns.

[Swampman]

I know I'd be perfectly happy if all we had to choose from were these.

.22
.223
.243
.308
.30-06
.375H&H
.458 Winchester
.30-30
.45-70
.38 Special
.357 Magnum
44 Magnum & .44 Special
.45 Colt

I have no personal use for them but the

9MM & .45ACP probably have to be on the list

Eveything else just helps sell guns.

[Coyote Hunter]

I know I'd be perfectly happy if all we had to choose from were these.

.22
.223
.243
.308
.30-06
.375H&H
.458 Winchester
.30-30
.45-70
.38 Special
.357 Magnum
44 Magnum & .44 Special
.45 Colt

I have no personal use for them but the

9MM & .45ACP probably have to be on the list

Eveything else just helps sell guns.

Thank goodness you’re not doing the choosing for me!!!

.22LR
.22-250
.257 Roberts
.25-06
7mm-08
7mm Rem Mag
.30-30
.307 Win (Or .308 Marlin)
.308 Win
.300 Win Mag
.338 Win Mag
9mm Luger
.357 Mag
.375 Win
.375 Ruger
.44 Mag
.45 ACP
.45-70
.458 Lott

[dpastordan]

   I'm curious.  What does the market show as the top 20 rifle cartridges?  It'd be interesting to see what ammo makers say about the saturation.  Then I'd like to see the sales figures over the past 10 years to note any trends like...are the new short magnums here to stay or not?  I believe the Winchester versions probably have caught on but the Remington versions...don't here much about them now, do we? 

[lgm270]

If a wife (or girl friend) can't have too many dresses, purses or shoes, then we can't have too many calibers. 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[ggeilman]

I don't have use for most of them, 30-30 and 45 work for me, perhaps a 38/55 some day. These mags and mm are not in my plans.