Increasing some of our velocities

[safetysheriff]

here is perhaps one of the best toe-to-toe comparisons of what i've seen before on increasing velocity with a double-based stick powder......and possibly shooting compressed loads with it.   and this is done without re-chambering to an Ackley Improved or whatever!

www.wwpowder.com and www.alliantpowder.com both have loads for the .280 Remington using Speer's 145 gr' spitzer, with both using Remington primers and brass.   the difference is with the propellants with the Win-760 top load recommended at 46.5 gr's producing 2639fps and 48,900cup and Alliant's Reloder 19 using 53 gr's and producing 2,815fps at 57,800psi.    both powders are allowed to develop more pressure yet; but they are already near the top in their respective "cup" and "psi" SAAMI-allowed pressures.    BUT.......look at the almost 200fps difference in velocity with both coming from 24" barrels.   

the differences i've seen with other cartridges between some of the ball and the stick powder loads (double-based in particular) are significant as well.   the .270Win and the 7mm Rem' Mag', etc. are also significant with loads i've researched in the past. 

just my opinion on how standard-issue, factory cartridges can be made to perform,

ss' 

[Ditchdigger]

Those may be loads meant for auto's ,because the Rem. 150 corlokts do 2975 fps. in my Handi.   Digger

[safetysheriff]

i'm not trying to make a point about what rifle the posted loads are intended for.    i am trying to show that some powders offer a significant increase in velocity --- in our handloads -- with no other change in the load or in the rifle.   yes, it could be that one or another of us has a 'faster' barrel which can make for significant velocity differences.    and some loads are better used in autoloaders than are others.   

but the fact, i think, that is shown here:   you can get more out of some powders than you may have already been getting with others, and it doesn't take an Improved chamber to do it.   a lot of us are going to continue learning about this hobby until we give it up or until the day we are 'planted by others'.   

compare IMR's recipe for the 7mm Rem' Mag' w/ 160 gr' Partitions with Alliant's recipe for the same caliber with the same bullet but different brass/primer/ and Reloder 25.   it's worth 160 fps'......with very similar pressures!   

why look for 200fps out of a gunsmithing job when there may be cheaper alternatives out there already?

i'm only trying to shed some light on what i've seen in this wonderful passtime.   

ss'

[Coastwatcher]

That is why I like the longer length barrels.  I can use slower burning powders and get better MVs without spiking the pressures too high. 

[Ditchdigger]

Thats true SS,thats why I'm already using Rel. 19 and 22,thanks to a tip from Fred M.   Digger

[Fred M]

SS.
This is where Quick Load comes in. The mathematical results can be a real eye opener. The program has just about any powder and bullet combination available.

It is very easy to come up with the best powder parameters for any given caliber and load. It saves a lot of guess work and load testing with this and that. When QL is properly used chronograph values are very close, together with pressure data. It saves you from buying powders that are not the best for the load or caliber and bullets weight.

You can set powder pressure at a certain level and QL will flag any pressure above your input. It is one of the best systems since sliced bread. For wildcatting it is a very valuable tool for forecasting what can be expected.

With the Handi's light frame and its elastic limitations, handloads can be considerable better for its intended uses. As little as 0.2gr will show you pressure variations, and of course the pressure will change with the various seating depth of the bullet, and or in contact with the lands, or off the lands.

When using a compressed load QL will calculate how much the powder is compressed and establish a new expansion ratio, how many percent of the powder is burned in the given length of barrel and what velocity the load produces.

You still have to do load development, but you are on the right track from the start. Yes the program is quite complex and takes a lot of learning. Your input is very important. Generic assumptions will lead you astray. At a $160 it is not cheap; IMHO it is worth every penny of it.

With QL it is also easy to tell what terrible loads some guys put together and not to follow the leader so to speak. The most important rule in handloading is never to use anybody’s loads.

[safetysheriff]

Fred'

we've got a grandson who was just Very sick; so i'm going to help out with a few bills.   i sold a rifle to help with that.    blessedly, he seems to be on the mend already.    and then i'm thinking about how i pay for a scope which i ordered today from our sponsor the OpticZone, after recent Christmas gifts.   as much as i like 'toys' that work like QuickLoad, i need to put the $$$ elsewhere for now.....

but, you know how that can be.   it hurts for a little while and then with God's help the pain subsides and you can afford to live again.

take care,

ss'  

[Fred M]

SS
God bless your soul, we have an old German proverb that goes like that interpreted. "Short is the pain and long is the pleasure". I hope your help did do well for your grandson and the parents.

I hope I did not come on too strong, and no not everybody would be happy with the complexity of QL. Quite a bit of bad mouthing has been directed toward QL, simply because for lack of understanding and by people who never used it.

It seams to me an invaluable addition to good handloading books.  I can hardly find a hand loading salutation where it is of no use. With the Handi rifle in particular it is really handy???.

Some day when I feel a bit less pain we have another go at the AI/Imp questions as they apply to the Handi rifle. See that last post where the guy used moly grease to lube the cases for fire forming. This has to be the worst lube he could have used. He did that simply by not understanding the nature of moly. The chamber as far as I am concerned is ruined.

Thanks for your reply.
Fred

[safetysheriff]

Fred'

it still is true that "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!"   that's why we hopefully are helping each other learn and grow as we spend more time on this hobby and on this forum.

i think that if we take a realistic look at what we can manage with our own abilities, ask for help from good sources like Mac' seems to have done with that reamer mfr', and like Quick does, too, for so many of the resources that he links for us, then we should be alright.   BUT:  that's a big "should".

i wish after what i've seen posted here lately..........that the idea of 'Improving" these Handi's would pretty much go away.   i wish that we'd learn to do other things that will help with our firearms without creating dangerous conditions.   i thought that maybe i'd helped with the stuff about Ackley Improving the .30-30, and other info' out of the Gun Digest.    and i didn't mean to come on too strong, either.    now i'm not so sure it's worth it anyway.

you didn't come on too strong before with the QuickLoad idea.

take care,

ss' 

PS:  here's an idea for those who think their rifle is not powerful enough and want to improve its performance during a hunt (in many/most instances):       GET CLOSER TO YOUR GAME!