Author Topic: Thanks & Questions (Read 1766 times)

cascadedad · « **on:** January 03, 2007, 10:40:27 AM »

I just registered and this is my first post here.

First let me say "THANKS" to all of you for a great site. I have been lurking here for a few weeks just soaking in information after purchasing a 223 with heavy barrel. I mounted a 3-9 Burris FF II with Ballistics Reticle. Will try to post a picture soon. I also bought a Harris bipod and am mainly using this gun for coyote hunting and just for having fun shooting. One of these days, when I get up the nerve, I am going to do a camo paint job on it.

The trigger was a crisp/clean 6 1/2 lbs out of the box. After using info from the Reynor and Perklo Trigger Improvement posts, the trigger is an awesome 3 1/2 lbs. I may go a tad lower, but will keep it here for now. I mainly used the Perklo post for making the slave pin and the photos for disassembly and assembly. I don't think I could have done it without them. Honing was done based on the Reynor technique.

I did an 0-ring float job and had to do a little sanding as the front-left side of the fore stock touched a little.

I have not done any barrel polishing. Have probably shot about 2 boxes through it and accuracy right now is about 2" at 100 yards. I tightened the stock screw pretty tight and will have it a little looser the next time out to see if that makes a difference. I did get some Filtz and will do a little barrel polishing before the next outing.

OK, now for the questions. What is the latch and latch shelf? This was mentioned as a potential for accuracy problems and also pop opens. I THINK it is the inerface where the barrel is latched closed, correct? The last time out, when I first started shooting I had 3-4 pop opens and then no more. I closed the action firmly, but did not slam it shut. I am sure I had oil where it shouldn't be.

I also read something about pulling the trigger all the way through when you shoot. Can someone explain this? Is there a simple explanation on how this affects accuracy in the Handi Rifle. I really don't think I do that, but am not sure. When I squeeze the trigger, I don't know how much "follow through" I get on that.

Again, many thanks. I am sure I will have more questions.

CD

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** January 03, 2007, 10:46:57 AM »

Welcome aboard!! Read the thread below, it has some answers for ya. The Latch in the frame is what engages the latch shelf on the barrel to hold the action closed. The shelf is just below the chamber on the barrel, with the action open, work the barrel release, you'll see the latch moving below the standing breech face.

Tim

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,107669.msg1098312793.html#msg1098312793

cascadedad · « **Reply #2 on:** January 03, 2007, 10:57:13 AM »

Thanks Tim, I have probably read that thread 5 or 6 times alread and just read it again. Probably read it 10 more times before I am finished.

So, I take it that no lubrication on the latch area causes the lockup to remain solid during the shot. That makes sense.

Next time out, I will have that taken care of as well as a little polishing of the barrel. Only problem I see is that when I get this one shooting the way I want, I know I will want another.............and then another............and...........

To which I have read there is no cure.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** January 03, 2007, 11:16:16 AM »

Yup!!!

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 03, 2007, 11:24:57 AM »

Its a very bad down hill slide that you have taken , BUT it a hoot to ride

stimpy

cascadedad · « **Reply #5 on:** January 03, 2007, 04:11:46 PM »

Well, here she is. Pretty standard unit right now. I look forward to putting the camo job on it someday soon.

I still haven't found anything that explains about the logic behind having to pull the trigger all the way back. Can someone point me to it please.

Thanks again.

CD

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** January 03, 2007, 04:43:27 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on January 02, 2007, 08:22:55 AM

Trigger pull is very important with the transfer bar, it must be pulled completely to the rear each time or inconsistent pins strikes will cause inconsistent ignition and accuracy.

Because the transfer bar must be held up to transfer the hammer strike to the firing pin, and the only way for that to happen is to completely pull the trigger to the rear every time. If you have the owners's manual, it explains this on the second page.

Tim

myarmor · « **Reply #7 on:** January 03, 2007, 09:25:38 PM »

Congrats on your new Handi. Plain? Maybe, but a clean looking rifle and a good scope too.
I am sure with a little time and effort you will be cutting those groups in half.

-Aaron

PartsMan · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2007, 03:25:28 AM »

I bought the same rifle in october.
Try as many different loads as you can.
Mine like many others likes 45g bullets.
With these it will shoot clover leafs at 50yd.(to windy lately to back up)
With 64g the same rifle shot 1.5" groups.
Also mine does better with a snug forearm.(no oring)

backstrap · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2007, 02:45:48 PM »

i wouldnt go any lower on the trigger in the FAQ's on the trigger job it says that over the time of shooting the rifle the trigger will get lighter on it own would want to to get it to light on a new gun and have to have a new trigger put in it

cascadedad · « **Reply #10 on:** January 04, 2007, 06:41:33 PM »

Now backstrap, that would just give me another fun tinker job to do wouldn't it?

Thanks again for all the suggestions guys.

Couple more things........
When I installed the o-ring, the stock still touched the barrel on the left front. I took some fine sandpaper to it and fixed that, but there is a much larger gap on the opposite side. Dollar bill will fit under the stock all the way around though.

If I take the o-ring out and snug the forearm like barr said, I think I would get some pretty nasty side pressure on the barrel. So, my thinking is, I either need to stay with the o-ring, or bed the forearm.

And Tim, I did look at the latch and latch shelf. They have had oil on them since I first shot the gun. Definitely will be dry the next time out.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2007, 06:57:49 PM »

One of the problems that we've noticed is the forend stud isn't always straight under the barrel, sometimes it's welded on a little crooked which results in forend fit problems.

Tim

wcf3030 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2007, 01:50:59 AM »

Your going to like that 223.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2007, 02:31:16 AM »

Since it's a bit more difficult to move the forearm lug on the barrel than to relieve the barrel hole in the forearm you might try that route. I have had GREAT luck in fitting forearms by very very carefully relieving the hole with a round file. That will relieve most if not all of the side pressure and help to center the barrel in the recess unless the lug is way off center, for that I suggest returning the barrel to the factory and asking them to fix it or replace it. This method can also relieve front to back pressure. I suggest a call to CS before returning the barrel for a improperly affixed or opff center forearm stud. The only other forearm fitting I have found neccessary is the either pad out or relieve the plastic spacer on the rear of the forearm where it mates up to the reciever, or sometimes sawpping it with a thicker or thinner one, there are (or were) several thickness's made...Good Luck, you have a great start and a great classic looking gun.....<><....

cascadedad · « **Reply #14 on:** January 05, 2007, 06:21:45 AM »

WCF, I already do.

Even though it isn't shooting outstanding right now, I think it will get there thanks to you guys.

Tim & MSP Ret, I will take a close look at the forend and the stud tonight. I really hadn't thought about looking to see what is going on there.

Planning on polishing the bore a little tonight as well. Busy weekend scheduled, but hoping to get out to see if any of these changes help.

CD

cascadedad · « **Reply #15 on:** January 05, 2007, 07:12:34 AM »

MSP Ret, Is it possible for you to post a picture of one that you have filed? I assume you had to file the through hole as well as the countersink, correct?

cascadedad · « **Reply #16 on:** January 08, 2007, 04:50:19 AM »

Here's a picture from yesterday. Short story to follow.

cascadedad · « **Reply #17 on:** January 08, 2007, 06:59:49 AM »

OK, the other night I looked carefully at the lug and forestock and it looks like everything comes together nicely. Doesn't really bind or pull the stock to the side or anything like that. It also looks as though the lug is straight with the barrel and the rest of the gun. Just maybe that the channel cut in the stock was a little off, thus causing the one side to touch while the other side doesn't. So....I didn't mess with that any.

I did polish the barrel with Filtz and make sure everything was very clean. Also the latch and latch shelf was clean and dry. One question on this. What is the best way to clean/lubricate the mechanism on the bottom of the barrel? Not sure exactly what it all does except move the extractor in and out. Right now, after cleaning everything out when fiished with the polishing, there is quite a bit of oil in this mechanism. I can dry everything off with a patch and then put the gun away, then when I take it out, there is visible oil. So, should I just use an air hose on this to try to blow out excess oil, or should I use GunScrubber to remove oil and then oil lightly? Or something else?

OK, Now for the fun stuff. I mounted the Harris Bipod, put on the shell holder and was ready to go. The wind was howling yesterday about 40-50 mph. I have a 14 y.o. son that MADE me go out after a coyote even though I have read it is very tough to call one in the wind. We had to try out the new Foxpro fx3 also!!! Anyway, no luck calling one in, but we did have some good father/son time and that is what matters.

I did fire the gun into a dirt bank at 100 yards a couple times to foul the barrel. Just shooting at a white spot on the bank, the best I could tell the shots were about 1" apart. Can't wait to get out and shoot some paper when the wind is at a minimum to see if the changes made an improvement.

Thanks again guys for all your help.

Oh, one more thing. I bought a new sling stud last night thinking that I would mount it further back on the forestock. When mounting the bipod to the current stud, the bipod hangs out in front of the stock. Any suggestions on the best place to install the other stud?

cascadedad · « **Reply #18 on:** January 08, 2007, 12:37:51 PM »

BTT

Anyone any recommendation on cleaning and sling stud mounting position for bipod. (see last post)

Thanks

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** January 08, 2007, 01:19:55 PM »

Sorry, was gonna reply earlier and got side tracked, then when I came back, the site went down for a bit!!

I use Hornady One Shot to clean and lube the extractor or ejector. It's the same as using Gun Scrubber then a dry lube.

There are 2 generations of extractors, gen one has a staked screw on the bottom of the underlug, the other is simpler looking and apparently what they're using now, there are pics in the FAQs of both, plus an ejector. There's also a link to a thread on gen 2 extractors.

Myarmor mounted a sling stud near the hinge on his rifle, hopefully he'll respond for ya.

Tim

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=270323

cascadedad · « **Reply #20 on:** January 08, 2007, 08:26:30 PM »

No problem Tim. Thanks for the tip on the "One Shot". It sounds like the perfect product for this job.

Well, I installed another sling stud tonight. Here is the result. I was worried about comfort while carrying and before mounting the other stud, i turned the sling around to see how it would work to carry the gun barrel down. It worked good and I thought it would be comfortable after mounting the sling from the bipod in the new position. It really is pretty comfortable now.

The bipod is WAY more secure than it was mounted to the front stud.

I think the camo is coming this next weekend..........stay tuned for more photos.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** January 08, 2007, 08:34:42 PM »

Lookin good!!

rshunter · « **Reply #22 on:** January 09, 2007, 08:06:18 AM »

Very nice

MSP Ret · « **Reply #23 on:** January 09, 2007, 08:40:44 AM »

It really does look like a nice setup cascadedad, sorry I did not get back to you on the forearm stud hole but I did not check this thread for a couple of days. I only had to reliveve the center hole a bit on the ones I did, they were not way off and there was enough play in the countersink to cover the side movement. If there were a greater adjustment that had to be made I believe I would return the barrel to H&R for correction of the barrel lug placement. I am happy to see your gun needed neither. Sounds like you had some quality time with your son. Any thought of buying him a coyote gun for himself?, perhaps a .22 Mag Sportster to start, maybe even set up like mine with a Survivor stock? That is my preferred coyote gun right now and it's good to 100 yards anyway with 1 inch groups. Keep up the good work and be sure to keep us posted....<><....

myarmor · « **Reply #24 on:** January 09, 2007, 09:04:38 AM »

Looks good. I mounted mine a little farther back than yours, almost too far. The rear of my Bi-Pod is only a hair, probably 1/8 from hitting the receiver when I break the action.
It takes a bit of getting use to it, as it takes very little movement of the buttstock to move your POI. But with a little time and finding how to cradle her when shooting, I found it works great for me. Plus it makes for an even more compact rig.
I too am a Bi-Pod shooter and am on the go.
Here's mine. These pics aren't the best, but you get the idea

cascadedad · « **Reply #25 on:** January 09, 2007, 09:55:59 AM »

Thanks guys.

I positioned the new sling stud so the bipod would be fully on the wood and also far enough back so I can see/access the forearm screw without removing the bipod. One thing that I am a little disappointed in is that with the gun setting on the bipod on the floor, it is tilted to the side just a little. When I drilled the hole in the stock I did my best to keep it all straight and the stud looks like it is centered, but it must be off just a little. Will probably shim the one side just a little, which will be no problem. Really makes no difference in the field as the ground is uneven anyway and I can adjust the legs to level.

Regarding my son. He is a hunting fool. He is 14 y.o. and I have 3 children younger than him. Needless to say, I went quite a few years with very little hunting or fishing. Now when Matt asks me to go, I just say, "Ask your mom and if she says yes, we're gone!". Well, she has a hard time telling him no.

I bought a Savage 243 w/ accutrigger and put a Nikon Prostaff 3-9 w/BDC redicle on it that he uses. I got the Nikon on sale before Christmas for $126, man you talk about an awesome scope for the money. I prefer the ballistics reticle on the Burris over the Nikon BDC, but they are both great scopes for the money. Anyway, the Savage is a light, good shooting gun.

Matt is bugging me like crazy to camo these guns. We look at some of the jobs done on Preditormaster.com and they are really nice. I don't see me making it through this weekend without painting the Handi. Hopefully it will be good enough to post a picture.

We are new to coyote hunting. Both days we have been out, the wind has been blowing 50 mph. $:-\$ Hopefully the shot presents itself to him, I know he will score.

Thanks again to you all.

georgeld · « **Reply #26 on:** January 09, 2007, 09:07:27 PM »

CD:
Welcome, so far you're off to the races with a decent looking gun and good cal for coyotes.

Get some mouth calls and learn to blow them too. I blast it out there when the winds blowing hard. Seems to draw them in better, but, wind is a known major problem trying to call dogs in. Work it longer, louder and harder. Then move 1/4mi when no results.

You get them coming in on the run. Have your gun shouldered and ready to fire where you think they'll come from. Once they get to that spot, bark at them, good volume to it, "WOOF" Woof". Be ready to shoot when you bark, they'll lock up so fast you'll wonder how they can stop so quick it works like this:
"WoofBlam!" You have not over 5 seconds before they either come on in and cant' be stopped, or split the scene. It's amazing how that barking deal works. Even if you kill one you can still bark the others to a stop and get another. Two of us nailed three out of four that way once. Each time we'd shoot, then bark, the other/s stopped to look back. Practice it. At first it's one of the hardest things you'll ever do. BUT: its one of the most productive things too.

IF you're into fur's, use 40gr as it won't exit and blow the fur up. A 45 gr and 55gr will blow big ugly holes out the far side and ruin the pelts. This time of year it makes no sense to not keep the furs. Even if you don't want to skin the stinking things, you can find a buyer for fresh kills a lot of places. So get the word out and make yourself a few bucks while having a blast. Get that kid one too!! No more than NEF's cost, it don't make any sense in two guys being on stand with only one gun. Sure as hell you'll have dogs come in on the wrong side and spook while you're tryin to get turned. Even then, bark at 'em and most times' they'll still stop for that five seconds. Dont' hesitate, be ready when you bark is he main thing. Shots of 50-100yds are best.

When it come's to getting the .223's to shooting one hole groups. One of the best tricks I've found is to get a batch of bullets in the weight you want. Have your load already. THen just swap bullets til you find the ONE that is most accurate. You are a reloader, right??

I found on my Sako bolt gun the 40gr V max was by far the most accurate. My loads for .223: 23gr AA2200, which has been out of production a couple yrs now. and 25gr 4895 either brand is the same. That makes just over 3000fps and very accurate. I use the same load for all wts of bullets from 35gr to 55gr. I dont' shoot anything heavier.

Those 35's lose stability beyond 200yds though. So IF your shots will all be less than that, use 'em, they'll be dandy. But, if most of your shots will be over 200yds, use 40gr if you're saving the fur, 55s otherwise. I use lot's of 55's on prairie dogs. They're cheap in quantity.

Wish you well, let's have those pics of the results once you start getting them killed. When calling, run that call about 3-5 min, then shut it off for ten. I like to blow my own calls, that way I can put the 'pain and feeling into the call'. I've had hunting partners say to listen to it almost makes them want to cry in pity for the poor rabbit suffering so much. That's what seems to work for me.

George

cascadedad · « **Reply #27 on:** January 10, 2007, 06:01:27 AM »

Hey George, thanks for the load and hunting tips. I am soaking all this good info up.

First, I am not a reloader, yet. I have a Dillon 550 I believe it is that my dad gave me, but just have never got it set up. We are getting ready to move in the spring and I really hope the new place we find will have a good place for me to set everything up.

Also, Matt does have a gun to hunt with. I think I mentioned it in the last post, but maybe I wasn't clear. He has a 243 Savage with Nikon ProStaff 3-9. He is a very good shot with it.

We have 3 of the Randy Anderson (Primos) DVD's, so I know what you are saying about barking to stop them. I am sure when that first one comes in the blood will be pumping so hard neither one of us will be able to see straight.

I do have a couple of the Primos hand calls as well as the Foxpro. I feel I can do most of the calls pretty confidently with the exception of the loud/long call from the Hot Dog. I almost have that one down.

Again, thanks for all the good info.

CD