is all the powder burning

[wgr]

to start i shoot both inlines and side locks.  im not into the mag.  powder load thing .  would some one tell me if they think that a rifle with a 24 to 28in barrel really burns a charge of 150 grains  i dont think it will  not shooting the light bullets anyway   it might if one shoots a big 400grain bore size led bullet  just to much powder there to burn in    45 and 50 cal rifles  just my opion and just asking  dont mean to get a big thing going  i just think that mag. muzzler loader  is just a big mony hipe

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

i dont think anyone in their right mind would use 150 grains powder and a 400+ grain bullet, I know that load would be sending me to the hospital with a broken shoulder and cracked skull after i pass out and hit the ground. Ive used 150 grains pyrodex rs and a 295 grain powerbelt and even then it was a waste of powder. I just found a new load and may stick with it.

to start i shoot both inlines and side locks.  im not into the mag.  powder load thing .  would some one tell me if they think that a rifle with a 24 to 28in barrel really burns a charge of 150 grains  i dont think it will  not shooting the light bullets anyway   it might if one shoots a big 400grain bore size led bullet  just to much powder there to burn in    45 and 50 cal rifles  just my opion and just asking  dont mean to get a big thing going  i just think that mag. muzzler loader  is just a big mony hipe

[wgr]

i agree with you big block didnt mean that i would are anyone should shoot a 400grain bullet with 150grain load just saying i think it would take that much weight to burn it. i do shoot a 400grain paper patch bullet  in mt inline but with 90grains of 2f  goex  and thats a thumper on both ends  sorry if i miss led you are anyone. i just think the big powder charges in a 45 are 50 cal is wasting powder thats all and a big hipe to sell rifles

[AndyHass]

Shooting over a chronograph will confirm that you continue to get increased velocities as you go up to 150gr of powder, so more powder is being burned.  Is the gun 100% efficient and burning 100%?  Well, probably not, bu then centerfire mags have the same issue unless you put a 30-32" barrel on them.  That's why long-distance centerfire shooters often go with 30" pipes on their rifles....they gain a few fps thru a little more efficient use of the powder charge.

So shooting 100gr, you might burn 95.  Shooting 150, you might burn 130.  You burn more and get more fps, but lose some efficiency.

[Redhawk1]

I have 2 Encore muzzleloader's, in one I shoot 120 gr. of loose triple 7 with 250 gr. bullets, I get great accuracy and performance. In the second Encore I shoot 90 gr. of loose triple 7 powder and 195 gr. bullets. I get great accuracy and performance with this load. I tried 120 gr. of loose triple 7 with the 195 gr. bullets and I lost my accuracy. So I go by what gives me the best performance as far as bullet weight and amount of charge. But to answer your question, I don't think any charge you put in a muzzleloader burns 100% of the powder.  It is very evident when shooting black powder on a snow covered ground, you will see black powder on top of the snow after the shot. And that is even with a 70 to 90 gr. charge of black powder. I think the newer powders burn more efficient than the real black powder.

[DEPUTY]

Mine doesnt burn it detonates!

no powder loss on the snow or  white sheets at the range with 200-250 grains of powder

[slave]

Deputy,

Could you post a few pic's showing the cartridge, bore and brech of that BEAST of yours. 

[kyelkhunter3006]

Black powder and the subsitutes are very inefficient.  Most all of the time, less than 100% of the powder is burned.  That's where all the powder fouling in the barrel comes from.  You may not see it on the snow or sheet, but if there's powder residue in the barrel after the shot,  it didn't burn 100% 

Deputy, not all BP powder rifle are nuclear charged like yours...very sweet, but too many $$$ for me.  Right now anyway.   

[Redhawk1]

Mine doesnt burn it detonates!

no powder loss on the snow or  white sheets at the range with 200-250 grains of powder

I don't see how you actually burn all of it. You may not have any powder residue on the snow or white powder, but that does not guarantee you have 100% burn of the powder. And I doubt you do.
The 45 Win Mag with a large rifle primer is not as hot of a primer as the 209 primer. So your primer system is not the miracle cure for un-burnt powder.

[Lane]

The PowerStem Breech Plug from Knight Rifles puts Unburned Powder to rest!  

That PowerStem is THE most efficient powder burner I know of  
Ignites the charge in the middle, and burns in both directions simultaneously   Next to nothing for residue left in the bore of my 45cal 26inch Disc Elite barrels


Now if some one could duplicate this plug to fit other rifles, that would be Sweeeeet!

[Redhawk1]

Mine doesnt burn it detonates!

no powder loss on the snow or  white sheets at the range with 200-250 grains of powder

Also I was talking about black powder and not a BP sub. 

[kyelkhunter3006]

Lane:

How do you like that Powerstem plug?  It seems that you like it alot.  I've been debating getting one.  I wonder about the stem causing problems with patching between shots???

[sabotloader]

DEPUTY

I would think when you put out information like the 200/250 grain powder loads that you should also tell everyone what you are shooting - so they do not think that you are suggesting that they can do it with the muzzle loaders they have.  Information like you posted there without the qualifier has the potential to certainly get somebody hurt...

Just a thought -mike

[Lane]

Kyel

The Stem is very sturdy, and the patch and rod stop right at the top of the stem.  I've hit it pretty hard at times and done no damage.  Now your thinking...what about the crud build-up from the stem down--about 2 inches ya can't swab??  Well that area stays pretty much barren of build-up

Check this post:  http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1422392

And this post as well--Just the PowerStem was used for this range outing--

http://www.bjacked.net/LuvToHunt/forums/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15656

And see what I'm trying to say

[DEPUTY]

no powder loss on the snow or  white sheets at the range with 200-250 grains of powder
[/quote]

I don't see how you actually burn all of it. You may not have any powder residue on the snow or white powder, but that does not guarantee you have 100% burn of the powder. And I doubt you do.
The 45 Win Mag with a large rifle primer is not as hot of a primer as the 209 primer. So your primer system is not the miracle cure for un-burnt powder.
[/quote]

then tell me how and why the standard smokepole  cant burn the 4  or 5 pellet charge and get those numbers i do in my ultimate they tried in the savage the savage couldnt do it with pellets  it takes 5 patches to clean my gun...... ok maybe it doesn tburn 100%  but i tell yyou what its alot closer than anything else out there, next to smokeless,  5 pellets 300sst and about 2450fps if i recall right! ill have to check my notes........

3 pellets in a standard gun say encore with a 250 might get you what 1800fps with your hotter 209.....  the breech plug, bore design and more have alot to do with the gun and its ablity

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

i got over 1800fps with 120 grains loose RS and a 245 grain powerbelt. Thats one of my best loads for knocking deer down. Im also done cleaning after 3 patchs and that 3ed patch is my dry patch. What cleaning solution are you using?

[DEPUTY]

t/c solvent or butchs  that is my cleaing for the entire year or after the season not just a range session

no breach plug to pull either on my gun

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

Try Kaboom, i use that stuff and love it. It foams up when u are swabbing and the second patch pretty much cuts everything down and is done. No breech the pull? Kinda scarey not being able to clean out the little stuff that gathers at the back in those hard to reach areas.

[Redhawk1]

no powder loss on the snow or  white sheets at the range with 200-250 grains of powder

then tell me how and why the standard smokepole  cant burn the 4  or 5 pellet charge and get those numbers i do in my ultimate they tried in the savage the savage couldnt do it with pellets  it takes 5 patches to clean my gun...... ok maybe it doesn tburn 100%  but i tell yyou what its alot closer than anything else out there, next to smokeless,  5 pellets 300sst and about 2450fps if i recall right! ill have to check my notes........

3 pellets in a standard gun say encore with a 250 might get you what 1800fps with your hotter 209.....  the breech plug, bore design and more have alot to do with the gun and its ablity
[/quote]

DEPUTY, as we both know most of the Muzzleloader's out are rated for 150 gr. of powder, that is why they are not shooting 4 or 5 pellets as your ultimate does.  Your ultimate was designed to shoot that amount of powder and you sure $$pay$$ for that ability to shoot that much powder.
It is an easy deduction to relate more powder equals more velocity, just look at the difference in velocity from 2 pellets to 3 pellets.
Will your ultimate have a better burn rate than say an Encore? The answer is no, using to same powder in your ultimate and an Encore, say triple 7 pellets, the burn rate is the same. Powder burn rate is not different from gun to gun, it was always have the same burn rate.
The reason you can achieve higher velocity is the amount of powder your ultimate shoots, not the type of ignition source.

Here are the velocities that were recorded for the following No. 209 primers...including the new "Muzzleloading Primers".
    Winchester 209ML ........................221 f.p.s.
    Winchester 209 Triple Seven ML.....244 f.p.s.
    Remington 209 Kleanbore ML ........318 f.p.s.
    Std. Winchester No. 209A ..............336 f.p.s.
    Std. Remington No. 209 .................341 f.p.s.
    Cheddite No. 209 ...........................347 f.p.s.
    Federal No. 209A ...........................381 f.p.s.
And for comparison,  the Precision Rifle "Vari-Flame" through this test, using both Winchester "Small Pistol" and "Small Rifle" primers.
Winchester WSP "Small Pistol" ........116 f.p.s.
Winchester WSR "Small Rifle" .........143 f.p.s.

[kyelkhunter3006]

Lane:  Thanks for the info, you were reading my mind!!!  Guess I'm going to get a couple of them now.   

[eye shot]

            REdhawk 1

 In the primer test how did they come up with the velocities?

[Redhawk1]

            REdhawk 1

 In the primer test how did they come up with the velocities?

With a variety of the primers, I headed for the range with the Green Mountain .32 in-line rifle and my chronograph.  I started by snapping a couple of primers to get a little base fouling in the bore.  Then I wiped the bore with four clean dry patches, exactly how I would wipe the bore between each and every shot.  I figured this would give me the same amount of resistance for each and every primer popped behind the well greased patch and light ball.  And for each primer tested, I fired 5 shots across the chronograph, then eliminated the highest and lowest velocity readings.  The velocities of the remaining three shots were then averaged.  And here are the velocities that were recorded for the following No. 209 primers...including the new "Muzzleloading Primers".

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/Technical3.html

[Busta]

Mine doesnt burn it detonates!

no powder loss on the snow or  white sheets at the range with 200-250 grains of powder

I don't see how you actually burn all of it. You may not have any powder residue on the snow or white powder, but that does not guarantee you have 100% burn of the powder. And I doubt you do.
The 45 Win Mag with a large rifle primer is not as hot of a primer as the 209 primer. So your primer system is not the miracle cure for un-burnt powder.

Redhawk1,

The "Large Magnum Rifle Primer" is really in a league of it's own. Then you would have to understand the breech plug design of the Ultimate. There is a stem that the .45 case chambers over putting a direct channel from the primer to the charge. You can't compare a 209 primer to a LMRP, the LMRP shoots a stream of molten lead up through the holes in the pellets, detonating the whole stack simultaniously. I found something that can help explain it, pay particular attention to the last paragraph on page 3 and the first paragraph on page 4. You cannot compare any other gun or breech plug to the Ultimate, it is the Ultimate afterall.

http://www.ultimatefirearms.com/pdfs/article_precisionshooting.pdf

[Redhawk1]

Busta, no matter the ignition source, the powder no matter what it is, has the same burn rate from gun to gun. Yes you can have a hotter ignition source, which in itself will increase velocity, but it will not alter burn rate.

I don't care what a gun maker try's to tell you, after all he is trying to sell a gun. 

I was going to order an Ultimate, I still have the Boucher I was sent, but I just could not justify to myself the need. I am already shooting 200 and 250 yards with my Encore with great success. At least with the Encore I have other options, with the Ultimate, it will always just be a muzzleloader. Just my opinion.