ANYONE EVER EXPERIANCE ?

[buckslugger]

YOU TALK TO YOUR BUDDIES OR PEOPLE ON THE COMPUTER AND YOU TELL THEM YOUR HANGUN HUNTING WITH A 44MAG,45 COLT,357MAX,41 MAG ..... AND THEY ARE LIKE OH YEAH THAT WILL DO IT , THEY HAVE ALL THE PUNCH YOU NEED IF YOU CAN HIT THEM,, THEN YOU TELL SOMEONE YOUR HUNTING WITH A HANGUN CALIBER RIFLE AND THEY SAY WELL THATS ABOUT MINIMUM MIGHT WANT TO STEP IT UP A LITTLE, EVEN MAGAZINES HAVE CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS REGARDING THIS,HAHAHA I JUST LAUGH ,SEEMS CRAZY TO ME, DEER ARE NOT WEARING BULLETPROOF SUITS OUT THERE

ROY

[eskimo36]

This was very common as people began hunting with handguns.  The same cartridge in a contender that killed a cape buffalo in Africa never gets mentioned as a even being big enough for whitetail.   It makes no sense but happens all the time.

[knight0334]

From what I've learned over the years...

1.  That when you tell someone you are handgun hunting, that they assume you will be within 50yrds of your target. 
2.  When you tell them that you will be rifle hunting, that they assume that you will be up to 300yrds or more from your target.


I personally know people to have taken whitetail with a 22RF (not mentioning names, they were poor and needed food).  ..Then I've seen my uncle hit a buck twice with a 300 Win Mag and never find the body.  Death is not an exact science...   You can probably hit one deer in the face with a feather pillow and kill it.  ...But the next deer you can hit with a Mack truck, drag it for a mile, then put (4) 454 Casull rounds into it and it still insists on living.

I personally don't understand the Uber Ultra Maximus Weatherby/Winchester Super Short Long Mag thing..   I mean, the 30-30 to 30-06 power level cartridges are more than capable for N. American deer.  ...and why would you wanna short a deer 200+ yrds away, unless its 200+ yrds closer to the truck than you are(color me lazy).  If you need that much more energy to kill, get a bigger bullet. lol

I've yet to see any critter go farther then 30ft after getting hit with my 45-70's.  With only about 2500ft lb (muzzle)of energy with factory loads, deer drop dead like right now. 

I donno...  maybe I'm rambling too. 

[bigjeepman]

This is a good topic.

Indiana is considering changing a shotgun/muzzleloader/handgun (min. 4" barrel and .243 cal or bigger - but no .38's, .45acp, etc) only law to include pistol cartridge rifles from a minimum .357 to a .45 caliber. If passed in it's present form, it will not include 30-30's. A man in the gunshop I frequent brought this subject up and said it would be stupid to hunt deer with only a .357 magnum rifle. I asked him why he thought this and he actually said he didn't think a .357 would kill a whitetail deer. I only said ... "are you sure?" He never answered. Oh boy ....... !

[Mac11700]

I personally don't understand the Uber Ultra Maximus Weatherby/Winchester Super Short Long Mag thing..   I mean, the 30-30 to 30-06 power level cartridges are more than capable for N. American deer.  ...and why would you wanna short a deer 200+ yrds away, unless its 200+ yrds closer to the truck than you are(color me lazy).  If you need that much more energy to kill, get a bigger bullet. lol

Well...the reason you can't understand it...is simply because you don't use one...and having a cartridge capable of taking a deer even 1000 yards away isn't appealing to you..it is to many other folks...It would be very similar to saying...I don't understand why a person would want a Red Corvette...when my blue Ford will do every thing it can...Who needs all that speed anyway... Different folks have different ideas of what they want to hunt and how far away they are when they pull the trigger...and just because you or anyone else don't agree with it..doesn't make it a bad thing...

Mac

[knight0334]

I'm not saying its a bad thing. lol   

Most of the people who get those long named mags hunt the <200yrd game, where the 30-30 to 30-06 power level rifles can handle..  I can understand those who do shoot farther..   I also understand the personal choice issue as well.

If a 308 Winchester powered 150gr slug passes through a deer, then a 300 Loudenboomer Ultra Uber Super Short Long Mag will have about as much effect shooting the same weight bullet.   ...any energy not dumped into the target is a waste(opinion).

This may be my opinion too, but I think skill is being replaced with over-powering your target with many of today's shooters.  ...instead of taking the time to make a superb shot on the vitals, they take aim anywhere on the deer with a "hamburger maker" and expect the bullet to make a bloody enough mess to track.

What I'm trying to say is, many people who either lack skill or are too lazy to aim are now depending more and more on higher powered cartridges to make up for their shortcomings.

Theres no reason why a .357 mag(rifle or pistol) cant be used if used properly.  I have a female cousin that uses a .222 Rem and has never ever lost a deer, but you'll hear from all sides that its not enough gun even though they've blown legs off deer and never found them with their magnums.

[MSP Ret]

Great post knight0334, I agree 100%. And your statements are fact not only opinion!!!....<><....

[Badnews Bob]

Personal prefrence Is the best reason for shooting anything, I understand this, thats kinda why I have about 30 rifles and 10 or so hand guns. Just makes me wonder what all those deer shot with .36 cal flintlocks or buck n ball smooth bore flintlocks would say about all this.

[Mac11700]

I'm not saying its a bad thing. lol   

Most of the people who get those long named mags hunt the <200yrd game, where the 30-30 to 30-06 power level rifles can handle..  I can understand those who do shoot farther..   I also understand the personal choice issue as well.

If a 308 Winchester powered 150gr slug passes through a deer, then a 300 Loudenboomer Ultra Uber Super Short Long Mag will have about as much effect shooting the same weight bullet.   ...any energy not dumped into the target is a waste(opinion).

This may be my opinion too, but I think skill is being replaced with over-powering your target with many of today's shooters.  ...instead of taking the time to make a superb shot on the vitals, they take aim anywhere on the deer with a "hamburger maker" and expect the bullet to make a bloody enough mess to track.

What I'm trying to say is, many people who either lack skill or are too lazy to aim are now depending more and more on higher powered cartridges to make up for their shortcomings.

Theres no reason why a .357 mag(rifle or pistol) cant be used if used properly.  I have a female cousin that uses a .222 Rem and has never ever lost a deer, but you'll hear from all sides that its not enough gun even though they've blown legs off deer and never found them with their magnums.

I take real issue with anyone who makes these claims here......

Most of the people who get those long named mags hunt the <200yrd game, where the 30-30 to 30-06 power level rifles can handle

...How is it that you know this...because of a few people your acquainted with...or of a few friends or friends told you so...?

First off...Magnums have their place in the hunting world...like it or not...wither you or anyone else thinks it's ethical or not or at what yardage another person chooses to hunt at...Wither you ever have a need for them or not...or if you now or at some other time have owned them or not...The word most is what is in question here...I don't know anyone personally who chooses to buy any magnum to shoot game at under 200 yards...but I have..and many many other people have taken game with our magnums at less than 200 yards...Most of the folks I deal with..buy them so we can shoot much much further if the need arises...others buy them just because they like them...others buy them for specific needs or hunts they have planned where they will need the extra range or energy of them...

Second...many of us who like and use magnums have the needed skill to drop any animal we choose to...and yardage isn't the limiting factor..

Third...While some here may think your opinion is a fact...it really is as you say...an opinion...nothing more...even though they may have the same opinion....A properly placed 30 caliber bullet will cleanly and humanly kill a whitetail...wither it is shot from a 300 Win Mag...or a 30-30...and it is a personal choice which you prefer to use...or anyone else for that matter...

Fourth...having a non-magnum gun...does not make a person ethical..a good hunter...or a great shot...I know more people who don't have magnums of any kind...that shouldn't even own guns...and they all own a bunch of non-magnums.All of the folks I know and hunt with who shoot magnums..all take pride in their shooting skills and make sure they shoot accurately...no matter what range they are shooting at...and no...none of them use a magnum to make up for poor shooting skills...or taking bad shots purposely...Granted...some folks will do as you say...but...I know many others who shoot at animals beyond their skill level with standard rounds...and wound more deer with the likes of a 30-30..30-06..270..280..7-08..308's..257 R.. So...choose your wording a little better...Your correct again in saying a well placed 357 cal bullet is adequate for deer...it is...so too is a well place 60 grain Nosler partition shot from a 222...Yardage and shot placement is the key here on this...and those who state they aren't any good...really don't know what they are talking about...If these folks tell you you need a magnum to do this...then they are the polar opposite of the folks who say magnums aren't needed...All of them fit into the shooting world...and it's up to us as individuals to choose what we use...not the extremist...which ever side of the fence they are on...

I'll say this about it...What I cannot fathom is why anyone would take issue with what others choose to hunt with or how they choose to hunt......Frankly...it really should be of no concern to you unless it is personally keeping you from shooting or hunting or if you personally see them wounding animals and wantonly leaving them......

Besides that...this type of discussion is a moot point on this forum...namely because our Handi's don't come chambered in any Ultra Mags...Short mags...Ultra Short mags..Weatherby mags...Umber mags..or what have you...They really aren't designed as a long range hunting rifle..even though they can be used as such in qualified hands...It's a personal choice on what you choose to do with them...or any other rifle...

Mac

[buckslugger]

MAN LOOK WHAT I STARTED HAHAHAHA

ROY

[MSP Ret]

Buckslugger, would you please do something for me and I am sure ohers here also. It has been brought up a few times to fairly new members and they all have done as requested. Would you please stop typing all in upper case (capital) letters? It is distressing to read and look s as if you are always yelling...Thanks buddy, I hope you understand....<><....

P.S. - if you notice no one else does it....

[buckslugger]

ok ,sorry about that, im not yelling and i do understand, im a really bad typer but i can build one hell of an elevator,hahaha

roy

[MSP Ret]

Aaaaaah! thats much better now buddy...Thanks....<><....

[myarmor]

I had an Uncle that hunted black bear all around where I live with an old Ruger Carbine in 44Mag. He swore by it, and killed many bears with it. But his shots weren't very long either and he knew his limitations with it. I believe that may be to the bad rap. Just case a pistol caliber gains some useable velocity and in some case a big improvement, it doesn't turn it into a long range caliber.
Modesty is a good thing


-Aaron

[sqeeter91]

Buck, to steal phrase from another member-Here's my 2 cents worth. I live in the Finger Lakes region of New York. This is shotgun country as far as deer hunting. Other counties in NY have legalized Hunting with rifles. However, you CAN hunt anywhere in NY with a centerfire pistol( Intelligence of our Politicians). I have never been a lover of slug guns,even though I own a few ( Hastings  barrels make a hellava difference-consistent 1" groups with my Ithaca 87). Thats one of the reasons that I started hunting with a Savage Striker (.243)  10 yrs ago. Hunting with this type of firearm is a totally different type of hunting. NO, you're not going to take the running Deer shots ( I don't believe in those shots anyways) But I hunt everyplace from heavy woods to Hayfields,and the long range pistol makes it a lot of fun. I have shot numerous deer at point blank range,and took a nice buck 4 yrs ago at 210 yards ( laser range finder-he dropped at 193yds) But as was staed earlier. you have to know your limitations. I shoot A LOT! And I know the ballistics of my pistol. NO, Magnum calibers and loads aren't necessaryon most game-totally necessary on other.Shot placement is everything,and if you can't do it with one shot cleanly,you let them walk. No matter what you're shooting.

[Countryboy]

I think it all comes down to what you are good with. I have a friend that can drop deer all day at 500 with a 257. Another friend I saw drop one at 187 with a iron sighted smooth bore slug gun. Anyway if you can shoot it well, use it. And if you ask me, if you're good with a super magnum why not. If you can shoot flees with a 250 savage and the side of a barn with a 30-06 why fight it. There's no such thing as overkill. Dead is dead but wounded is ??

Just my thoughts

[Wolfgang]

A Message to all of the deer and other wild game who have been killed by the .357 magnum.... get up, get out of the freezer and reassemble yourselves.  You have been shot by an inferior caliber and could not possibly be dead!

[Brett]

Shot placement and appropriate range for the caliber being used are the key elements.  Heck, look at all the deer that have been taken with pointy sticks (arrows) over the centuries. I say let a person use whatever he wants (within reason) as long as he knows it's and his limitations.

If we hunters start dictating what calibers should or shouldn't be used, especially if the reasoning is they are too powerful, the anti's will use that as an argument to say we 'don't need an auto-loader to hunt deer' or 'or any type of repeater since a single shot will do' or 'primitive arms are all you should be allowed to use' or maybe 'hunters should not be allowed to use guns at all and should only be allowed to use spears'.