.45 or .50 Cal In-line?

[alien319]

Which is inherently more accurate or is there not much difference?  I am new to this and do not own a muzzleloader right now.  I have fired them before but do not own one.  Just wondering about some of your opinions.  I know that around most of the shops I've been in I've seen more .50 Cal muzzleloaders and bullets for them. Any help is very useful.

[Critter]

Well you've already hit on it, there are more bullets and weights available for the .50 than the .45.  More choices means more combinations and a statistical chance at a more accurate load.  However I have heard very few people complain about thier .45's being inaccurate.  I am looking at a .45 Omega right now in fact.  I have a Knight .50 and want an Omega for longer range shooting so I am in the same boat as you, stick with the .50 or try the .45? 

[Redhawk1]

I have two 50 Cal Encores and one of them is the Pro-hunter. I get 1 inch groups at 100 yards with them, I also had a 45 Cal Encore that was equally as accurate. I have sold the 45 Cal to a buddy that wanted it more than I did. I like the selection of bullets and sabots out there for the 50 cal, not as much of a choice with the 45 Cal.

Critter, the 50 cal is every bit as flat shooting as the 45 caliber. It all comes down to bullet weight and load. 

[Critter]

I'm sure that is is Redhawk.  I'm a tinkerer and pretty dedicated reloader at heart.  My debate is do I want to stick with the .50 or do I want to play around with a new caliber muzzleloader.   Do you recall if the .45 was anymore difficult to work up an accurate load?

[Wolfhound]

Between the .45 and the .50 go with a 50 cal. The .45's are inacurate and extremely picky. It's a rare .45 owner who has no issues. I have both a .45 and a .50 of the same make and model. The .50 will shoot about anything I stuff down it while with the .45 I have yet to find a bullet it likes. Of course I'm even more restricted with a .45 because the smallest legal caliber of bullet in Illinois is 44 so I'm stuck using conicals.

[Redhawk1]

I'm sure that is is Redhawk.  I'm a tinkerer and pretty dedicated reloader at heart.  My debate is do I want to stick with the .50 or do I want to play around with a new caliber muzzleloader.   Do you recall if the .45 was anymore difficult to work up an accurate load?

I did not have a problem finding an accurate load for the 45 Cal, I did however find out the 45 cal Encore did not like power belts.

[AndyHass]

Many of the issues that created the myth that .45s are inherently inaccurate were spawned when several of the companies simultaneously released "long range" .45s with 1:20" twists.  Turned out it was the 1:20 twist, and not the caliber, that was responsible for the inaccuracy. 

If you are going to shoot .357 bullets, the .45 is the way to go....the duplex Precision Rifle sabots put a lot of plastic between bullet and bore to shoot them in a .50 (though they can be very accurate in one).  For any other purpose, I can't imagine why a .45 would be preferred.

Interestingly, many barrel makers use the same size blank for .50s and .45s, meaning that the .45s have more metal around the bore and are therefore heavier.

[slave]

AndyHass,
I have been wanting to spend some time with a .45.  What type of load would work with a 1:20.

I have a crazy idea and wonder if a load could work at 1:20.   

[toytruck]

Last year about this time I was lucky enough to buy a White Super 91 in .451 caliber (.45 rounded up) This is the most accurate rifle I own in my gun safe which includes alot of CF rifles. The White rifling is also 1:20 twist and will put a 460 grain full lead powerpunch bullet into one hole out to 75 yds. and 1/2" groups at 100 yds. using 70 gr. of T73Fg.

I killed two bucks in Nov. 2006 with it. One was a nice 8 point,Nov. 4th, hit in left shoulder, bullet traveled through shoulder, hit the heart and lungs and went out the right side two ribs from the end of the ribcage.  I also killed a spike buck Nov.13 with the same rifle. I actually prefer it now to the Encore and hope to add to the kills for this rifle next season. No sabots and No swabbing required or needed, just keep on shooting.

If you like a conical shootin rifle, you owe it to yourself to check out the Whites. I was reluctant myself due to the company financial situation, but don't regret buying the S91 now. Actually wish I had bought one years ago, sure would have been cheaper.

You won't find those big conicals in Wally World, but they are available at No Excuses or BullShop or you can make your own if you are into that.

[AndyHass]

toytruck, your good experience with the 1:20 could have been due to not using sabots or to the relatively low charge (70gr).  Those two factors combined means that you were pushing those bullets and a relatively low velocity.  The frustration I heard was trying to take advantage of higher charges (100-120gr) in these guns.  I have no personal experience with one, I just remember hearing that they were very, VERY picky and favored low charges (probably prevented over-spinning bullets).

The problems were bad enough that several companies were swapping for 1:28" barrels for free.

[toytruck]

Andy,
You are right about the sabot vs conicals in the 1:20 twist .45's. I owned a 209X45 Encore barrel hoping to shoot conicals in it instead of .40 cal bullet in a sabot, but it didn't happen. The Encore .45 barrel only liked 225 powerbelts.  I sold that barrel last year and heard from the new owner that it likes the .40/sabot combo.  I decided to go with the White .451 after reading about them for couple of years. I will never own another .45 caliber rifle again now, until you hear that big 460 lead conical smack a deer you won't believe it, and what got me was the light powder charges, in 3Fg, so with the shallow rifling and slipfit technology that big bullet is a killer.  Just ask the yankees that fell to the southern snipers .45's, same principle.

[slave]

I am still puzzeled about the twist rate and sabot vs full bore projectile. 

Case in point. The s/w 460 is a .451 bulllet. I have a 15" SSK with a tight twist rate. This set up is under moa with 200gr Hornaday factory loads. It is almost as good as a match grade bench rest .308 with 275gr corbon. Who knows waht it could do with enough time and a good hand load. My hole point is how can a 1:12 deliver this result and a 1:20 is to much for a .40 in a .45 sabot?

Any help or explanation is wanted.    The reason I am so interested is I want to buy a 20" Katahdin barrel for one of my Encores. I would like to use it as both a .45 cal ML and a S/W .460 centerfire. I intended on using a .460 case as a brech plug for t7 when functioning as a ML. I figured I could place ML / forearm spacers and fit a custom forearm to it for a ramrod. But the 20" T/C .460 Katahdin has a tight twist rate. I would be wasting my time if this configuration wont function with a sabot.   

[toytruck]

All I know personally is the two .45 barrels I owned, both in 1:20 twist.  The TC barrel wouldn't shoot conicals worth spit and the White is super accurate with conicals. Alot depends on the manufacturer and the depth of the rifling I would say....

[kidolds]

I would rather shoot my 45 G2 over my Encore 50. I shoot 1 groups with the G2, 100gr , APP and 195 power belts, When My 12yr old Daughter shoots it she use the 195 and 75gr  1grps at 50yds. I would rather tote around the light weight G2 over my Encore on a days walk of up and down hills in Ohio. I have found many differances in shooting them from same loades and differnt primers. In both the 45s and 50s. The hardest was the Encore to sight in I can shoot great groups with 245s power belts, On the other hand my Buddys encore will not shoot the same  group with my work up. The Best thing I can add is stay with one primer and loose powder to find a load that your Muzzle loader likes. I Just bought the G2 in SS 50cal. and have not tryed anything with it yet. (as far as Game taken with the G2 80 yds)