Author Topic: Shallow primer hits (Read 1762 times)

1NEFsofar · « **on:** October 11, 2008, 05:24:00 AM »

Yes, I have read the FAQ's that have to do with shallow primer strikes (i.e. not pulling the trigger back all the way), but I was wondering if when I had the trigger worked on when I sent it in could have had an effect on this? I took my new barel to the range and out of 15 pulls only 2 shots rang out

. The rest showed shallow primer strikes. The trigger is much better now, less creep and breaks pretty cleanly so I thought that I am pulling it back good enough. Anyway, does anyone know of the if the trigger job COULD have made this happen? I mean it can't all be MY fault

.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** October 11, 2008, 05:34:53 AM »

Could be a weak hammer spring or a gummed up firing pin. Does the transfer bar come up when you pull the trigger? If not, the transfer bar(lifter and striker) is broken. You can order a new hammer spring and/or t-bar and use the trigger hone info in the FAQs to install them, or send it back to H&R for repair. H&R and Brownell's sell the t-bar and spring, as well as Numrich, Wolff also sells the spring. It could also be too much headspace if you're bumping the shoulder back too much with handloads.

Tim

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 11, 2008, 05:56:05 AM »

While I was typing Tim made his reply. The suggestions he made are all possible, but if they are not the answer, look at this solution.

If it was doing OK before the trigger job, I would suspect the trigger as the problem.

I did my own trigger job and was quite proud of the fact that it was really light, but still safe. Problem was when I squeezed it off, the transfer bar was not high enough to make a good transfer to the firing pin. I was getting light strikes, with no bang. Some times it would go off, but the primer would flow back into the firing pin hole making it difficult to open and some times it worked as expected. I could get it to fire pretty consistently if I kind of stabbed the trigger hard, not squeezing it. If you think this is your problem, the fix is probably a new trigger. I ordered a "gold" hammer, like Tim has described in the FAQ and ordered the old style spring (double legged) along with a new trigger just in case. Since the transfer bar was the problem, I though I would eliminate it and fix it. I replaced the hammer with the new gold one and modified the double spring to fit; I did the transfer bar appendectomy. Unfortunately the trigger I had so carefully tuned would not catch the new gold hammer to keep it cocked. I ordered the new trigger "just in case" and I did need it. After I did a little tuning on the new trigger and replaced the old one with it, I have had no more problems with light hits. The bottom line is - You can make the trigger too light. If you want to go the less hassle route, just replace the trigger and start over with a tune job. I really do like the new hammer - no dang blame transfer bar and a half cock instead. I thought about taking out the transfer bar and grinding down the original hammer to make direct contact with the firing pin. I soon dropped that idea because there is no half cock and a sharp blow to the hammer, like dropping it would make it go off. Let us know if this fixed your problem or not. If you need further explanation, let me know. Good Luck and Good Shooting

1NEFsofar · « **Reply #3 on:** October 11, 2008, 08:08:11 AM »

Quickdtoo...yes the transfer bar does rise when fired. I don't handload so I shouldn't have problems there. I am reluctant to say the least about sending it back. If I have to wait another 8 weeks, the fall deer season will be kaput! I am going to the range again and see what happens. I'll let you know.

In case I can't get it working, your saying the gold hamer does not have a transfer bar system but half-cocks for safety? If this is it, I may have to get one.
To sum up Gold hammer + new trigger = no transfer bar?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** October 11, 2008, 08:18:07 AM »

The gold hammer info is in the Low Profile Hammer Mods 2 in the FAQs.

The older guns didn't have a t-bar, the hammer struck the firing pin directly, so they didn't have the cut out for the t-bar or the extension on the hammer face, depending on how you look at it!!

They also use a different spring as the anchor on the hammer is in a different place once you install one, but the double spring from Numrich or Wolff will work with it if you heat and straighten the legs which have a dogleg in them. I also found a single torsion spring at the local hardware store that will work with a little modification.

Tim

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 11, 2008, 08:20:44 AM »

You beat me to it again, Tim

Yep, with the gold hammer, no transfer bar is needed. You will have to get a different spring and modify it. I do not know if the trigger you have now will work or if you can use the one you have. It may have been ground down too far to work with the new hammer. It is a matter of fit. When you do a trigger job, you stone it down to fit the hammer you have installed. the trigger you have now may work fine, but again, it may not. The gold hammer spur is lower than the standard hammer, so lower scope mounts are possible. I got a hammer spur to work, it JUST misses the release lever, but maybe you will not even need a spur with the lower hammer. Here is a picture of the new hammer installed on my rifle.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** October 11, 2008, 08:27:48 AM »

No races here, just help.......save the racing for the Classifieds!!

Tim

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2008, 08:38:40 AM »

Help is what it is all about - Of course you are correct, it just seems I am repeating what you said, and I hate to delete what I have typed.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2008, 09:20:44 AM »

I don't blame ya, but the more info, the better!

I forgot about the hammer interference issue, I ran into it on my 6.5x55, the barrel release is a little higher and I didn't drill and tap it for the Winchester hammer extension. This time I took a little off the bottom of the hammer extension so it would clear the release. I think I took a little off the back edge of the release button on my 405, there are plenty of ways to skin a cat...er.....work around the issue!!

Maybe 1NEFsofar is left-handed so he won't have the problem at all!!

Tim

1NEFsofar · « **Reply #9 on:** October 11, 2008, 10:16:43 AM »

You know what......I do shoot left handed! Wow the Mods on this boars know EVERYTHING!!!!!!!

Thanks for all of the great info. I will let you know what I end up doing.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** October 11, 2008, 12:47:46 PM »

1NEFsofar · « **Reply #11 on:** October 25, 2008, 05:49:37 AM »

I have received all of the parts for the new, non-transferbar hammer installation, printed out EVERYTHING that had to do with trigger work, hammer installation, etc....and will attempt to replace it. I will update as soon as I finish. Hopefully, I will not have to update sooner and ask how things go back together!!

Let the fun begin!

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 25, 2008, 12:27:13 PM »

After you put in the slave pin, pull the trigger back (toward the butt) as you insert the trigger assembly. I did not see that information in the listing or I missed it. It took me several hours of patience to figure that out the first time I took one apart. You are probably not as dumb as I am and could figure it out right away, but just in case...

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** October 25, 2008, 12:49:49 PM »

I don't touch the trigger, I do use a triangle shaped piece of ¼" plywood to wedge the hammer back as mentioned by Fred on his website, you don't need three hands as Perklo mentions. Then hold the barrel release button up at the same time I hold the frame in my left hand, I kinda stick my finger under it as I hold the frame, insert the trigger group into the frame making sure the latch spring fits behind the latch, a little grease in the spring pocket holds the latch spring in the spring pocket, then move the trigger group up into the frame and insert the small front pin and follow up with the rear pin. Goes real easy once you get the hang of it, after installing and removing trigger groups hundreds of times on 25-30 frames, I think I could do it blind folded!!

Tim

1NEFsofar · « **Reply #14 on:** October 25, 2008, 01:41:35 PM »

Thanks for all the advice. Looks as if I will start tomorrow afternoon. I will let you know how it goes.

1NEFsofar · « **Reply #15 on:** October 27, 2008, 05:54:09 AM »

Hummmmmmm...after disassembling I found a broken barrel catch

. Looks as if one of the ridges broke off the end. I was suprised that this is a cast piece and not a machined piece. Now I have to replace this as well. Do I have to get this from NEF/Remington or does someone else carry it?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** October 27, 2008, 06:04:52 AM »

The barrel catch(latch) is a restricted part, they require the rifle to be sent in for replacement and the barrel fitted again.

Tim

http://www.hr1871.com/documents/manuals/HR_NEF_HANDI_RIFLE_MANUAL.pdf

1NEFsofar · « **Reply #17 on:** October 27, 2008, 07:44:36 AM »

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** October 27, 2008, 08:47:53 AM »

It wouldn't hurt to call em and ask them to send one to ya, it may or may not require any fitting of the existing fitted barrels. You could make arrangements for its return if they won't work with ya, maybe they'll cover shipping costs if you ask.

Tim

1NEFsofar · « **Reply #19 on:** October 31, 2008, 03:07:58 AM »

Called and they said that thaey have to ahve the gun back to install the new piece. I did ask about fitting all of the barrels and the customer service rep said that I only needed to send back one?! $:-\$ . I am thinking that all of the barrels need to be cheked if not refitted again. Does this make sense? If so I am going to send all of my barrels back with the pre-paid label they are going to send me.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #20 on:** October 31, 2008, 01:55:19 PM »

All barrels that are factory fitted to it should be checked for fit and need to go back with it.

Tim

1NEFsofar · « **Reply #21 on:** November 02, 2008, 05:22:57 AM »

I just picked up a 45-70 from the forum and was going to fit it myself before all of this foolishness began

. Should I just send it in as well and have them fit it with the others?

I can't remember it they will do that or not.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #22 on:** November 02, 2008, 05:31:32 AM »

It depends on how well it fits, the underlug must be long enough that they can cut it to fit, if it's already too short, they can't fit it, won't shim as we do. A too long underlug would not allow the action to close, if it closes and the barrel is loose, they wouldn't be able to fit it. Swampman recently got one fitted by them, he sent in a frame and second hand 45-70 barrel for fitting and a free trigger job, so contact them and see what they say.

Tim

1NEFsofar · « **Reply #23 on:** November 02, 2008, 05:53:01 AM »

I'll give them a call...and as always, thanks for the help!

1NEFsofar · « **Reply #24 on:** November 10, 2008, 03:46:53 PM »

I have boxed up my beloved gun with2 barrels for shipping tomorrow

!!! I hope that the piece will be replaced and when the gun returns, I will not have any more shallow primer strikes!

BTW, did anyone notice that when you get a new barrel fitted they inscribe the last 4 digts of the seriel number into the barrel next to ejector? Both the original and newly fited .308 barrels had this done after I had the new barrel fitted.

.

I'll keep you updated.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #25 on:** November 10, 2008, 05:00:32 PM »

The factory has always engraved/stamped the last three digits of the serial number on the left side of the underlug of any barrel fitted to the frame.

Tim

1NEFsofar · « **Reply #26 on:** December 08, 2008, 11:10:02 AM »

Wow! I got by gun back today with both barrels intacted. I hope to get out to the range within the next week to see if they fire correctly (minus the shallow primer hits!!!). I think that I will wait until after I test fire to replace the scope rail mounts, scope, bore site, etc.... I'll post my results.

I do have to say, that a little less than 4 weeks and I had it back. I am pleasantly supprised...of course gun season opened last week!