Author Topic: New to swaging: die question  (Read 1832 times)

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Offline x_BP_x

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New to swaging: die question
« on: September 21, 2006, 01:21:55 PM »
Hi all!

   I'm about ready to order a swaging press and will also order the dies I need which brings me to my question.
What should I ask for in regards to die size? I own a 1873 trapdoor and a Marlin cowboy both in 45-70. I'm thinking
of trying PP for the trapdoor and pure lead, lubed, in the Marlin. However, does this mean I need two seperate die sets
for this? If I can use one die set, how do I get the different diameters needed for each firearm?

Thanks in advance for your advice!
Scott

Offline rbt50

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Re: New to swaging: die question
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2006, 05:57:04 PM »
you will need a different die for each dia.
.448 dia for paper patch or whet ever
 .459 for lube     e mail richard corbin he can help you   www.rceco.com
                                dave corbin   www.corbins.com

Offline x_BP_x

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Re: New to swaging: die question
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2006, 02:49:58 PM »


Regarding the .459 for lubed bullets, can this be used in both the Marlin and the Trapdoor?
What I'm getting at is this: is it "imperative" to have the bore of each rifle cast and measured
for a die set for each? I'm hoping that this isn't the case javascript:void(0); since it seems that
this hobby would get expensive quickly!!

I have sent several e-mails to Richard on other questions but I'm hoping folks on this board
can fill in the gaps.


Offline JBMauser

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Re: New to swaging: die question
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2006, 02:53:32 PM »
If you cast the pure lead pill as the poster suggested would you use a tumble lube like Lee liquid alox for a Lube?   I Have used it on unsized cast bullets and it works well but those bullets still had a lube groove to hold a bit of lube.   Will this work on a smooth sided swaged bullet as well?  JB

Offline rbt50

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Re: New to swaging: die question
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2006, 09:23:40 AM »


Regarding the .459 for lubed bullets, can this be used in both the Marlin and the Trapdoor?
What I'm getting at is this: is it "imperative" to have the bore of each rifle cast and measured
for a die set for each? I'm hoping that this isn't the case javascript:void(0); since it seems that
this hobby would get expensive quickly!!

I have sent several e-mails to Richard on other questions but I'm hoping folks on this board
can fill in the gaps.

i use the .459 dia for my marlin 45/70 and shilo sharps 45/110 with no prolblems i use cup base punch to make cup base bullets.i think you can get by ok with .459 dia with most guns,the cup base bullet will seal up the bore a little better than the flat base.
this is one draw back in bullet swaging haveing to buy a new die for every bullet dia.can get expensive.

Offline iiranger

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Re: New to swaging: die question
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2006, 10:19:11 AM »
I would suggest you begin by visiting both web sites of brothers Dave Corbin --swage.com, corbins.com, etc-- and Richard rceco.com BECAUSE both have books posted and your question is posted in these books. Free answers!  Most of the options are listed.

At this point, my thought is simple enough. For the lubed bullet, you will want full diameter. You can cast your bores with melted sulfur (available from garden stores cheap and outside, if it catches fire i) you goofed, TOO hot & ii). IT STINKS). Buy a die full diameter and add grooves or knurling or ??? AND for the paper patched bullet, buy a "ring die" and shove the bullet thru it to reduce its size. Not very costly. You will want a bullet less in diameter by 4 thicknesses of the paper (2 wraps). I think one of the brothers mentioned using a pistol die (.452 or .451) to form bullets for paper patching for rifles... And recommendations on the best paper... Read for yourself first or things can get expensive... luck

Offline x_BP_x

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Re: New to swaging: die question
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2006, 10:55:03 AM »
Great info. Thanks! Two more questions -

1) you mentioned a ring die: is this the same as a reducer die? I've gotten conflicting information about
whether this would reduce the diameter enough to use a pp, and if so, the bullet would deform enough to make it unsuitable?

2) I was planning on purchasing an adjustable mould for casting cores for the 45 calibur. Is this worth doing or should I just purchase
the lead wire?

That's it....I think ;)

Offline iiranger

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Yes and ???
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2006, 06:33:34 AM »
I am afraid I am inclined to the Corbin word usage and they say "ring" die for a die which reduces. Jacketed bullets must by in very small steps and limited. Empty jackets and lead bullets are much more ductile... Regardless, you shove the larger bullet thru and it comes out smaller... Reduced. You can email them about exactly the amounts possible and costs for their products.
#2). Casting is great and I think it is fun, BUT... where will you get lead:?   I visited a scrap yard with several 55 gallon drums of wheel weights in plain sight. This is not pure lead. [FINE for cast bullets, but not for swaging cores.]  It is alloyed and exactly what the alloy is is pretty uncertain. Man told me he didn't have much pure lead. Wasn't sure when he would have pure lead. I would have to keep checking... Lead pipe from old homes, really old, is pure lead. Lead sheathing from telephone pole wire cable is pure lead, except the joints where it is soldered... Now they are burying the telephone/cable lines... Then you figure the price of fuel. That ain't hay. Lead is traded as a commodity, just like gasoline, orange juice, potatos, etc. You get a lead wire price... Corbins? the phone book? a plumbing supply house... ["plumbing" is from the Latin word "plumbum" which means "lead." Romans used it in paving on the roads too...] I guess some boat shops stock it for weighting ropes on sailing ships. And you figure your costs for working the scrap into cores... (if you are real serious, you include what you save on beer and recreation staying home melting lead and casting...  ;D;) Then you decide. I think both the Corbins have summarized, for large bullets, .35 and up, USUALLY it is cheaper to cast. For little bullets, .224? .244? etc. Purchase and cut cores from wire... luck (this is discussed in their books, free for download on the web site. ii). Expecting commodity prices to rise, I purchased several spools of wire couple years ago. Seldom does it goe down. But you have to be willing to put the money into the commodity.]

Offline Lead pot

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Re: New to swaging: die question
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2006, 02:29:57 PM »
Scott;

I would sugest before jumping in and getting set up for swaging, ask your self what you want to load for.
Read and study all you can find on swaging and deside that that's what you want to do.
Getting set up for swaging can be expensive, but it's also rewarding.
Here is some good reading.

http://rceco.com/img/RSBook1.pdf

http://rceco.com/img/RSBook3.PDF

http://rceco.com/img/RSBook4.PDF

http://www.iastate.edu/~codi/PPB/PPB.html

Kurt

Dont go were the path leads,go were there is no path and leave a trail.

Offline Bandito

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Re: New to swaging: die question
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2006, 09:22:02 AM »
The books are necessary. Get them and read them, then come back with your questions. Most of your questions will be answered. Good luck. Bandito