smokless powder

[motordog80]

I was talking to a guy yesterday about guns, and he was getting a smokeless barrel on a topper frame.  The thing he said that threw me off was he said the maker claims he can kill at over 500 yds.  I just found that a little hard to belive with a 50 caliber gun.  He did not say anything other than 70 grains of powder, he did not mention the bullet. 

[stumpy]

Their are several sites with forums ditacated to smokeless muzzleloading. If you go to them you will see a great deal of information on the topic of loads, where to get smokeless barrels made and  ballistic/load info. Just as a general comment the type of powder will determine the amount of powder and for example 70 grs of one type might give you less volicity then 40 of another. DO NOT USE SMOKELESS IN A MUZZLELOADER NOT DESIGNED FOR IT!!!.
AS to the 500yd claim there is ALOT more to it then just getting a barrel made and pulling the trigger.

[Keith Lewis]

The kill zone on most game animals is about the size of a paper plate. Set a paper plate out at 500 yards and take a look at it. Even with a scope try to hold the crosshairs steady on a paper plate at 500 yards under hunting conditions. I suspect there is someone somewhere that might be able to make that shot but it sure isn't the avereage or even the above average hunter. I think a 200 yard shot on a game animal is pushing the limit for me with a .50 cal muzzleloader. The wind drift alone can be enough to push you off the vital area unless you are really a well practiced competition shooter. Even then wind in the woods is different than wind on a clean range. I know with my system when an elk is available for a clean shot my nervous system kicks in and shots that I might be able to make on the range become somewhat less likely to be accomplished. I limit my shots to 150 yards or less with a muzzleloader. Smokeless powder is a little more efficient in a rifle designed for it but the bullets are still large diameter in a .50cal muzzleloader, slower than cartridge rifles shooting 7mm bullets and more subject to wind drift and the trajectory is significantly larger. I am not saying that your friend is full of it but I sure would like to see him do that shot.

[edgemark]

SNIP

Smokeless powder is a little more efficient in a rifle designed for it but the bullets are still large diameter in a .50cal muzzleloader, slower than cartridge rifles shooting 7mm bullets and more subject to wind drift and the trajectory is significantly larger. I am not saying that your friend is full of it but I sure would like to see him do that shot.

I agree that 500 yards is a poke, but with the right sabots and the right bullet I think that it is possible.

edge.

PS I shoot 30 cal. 150 grain Accu-Bond bullets from my 45 caliber ML

[Busta]

Edge,

That looks cutting "edge", do you machine your own sabots? I like your pre-rifled sabots with the  mark to help keep things consistant. You know you can't bait us like that without telling us how they ar doing, both on target and game, if you got that far yet. I am suprised that there has not been a commercial sabot for the .30's yet, or maybe there is, or is going to be. That bullet looks like it would be optimum in a very fast twist like my .451 White's 1-20".

C'mon, you have me hook, line, and sinker! Let us in on your secret.

[Keith Lewis]

SNIP

Smokeless powder is a little more efficient in a rifle designed for it but the bullets are still large diameter in a .50cal muzzleloader, slower than cartridge rifles shooting 7mm bullets and more subject to wind drift and the trajectory is significantly larger. I am not saying that your friend is full of it but I sure would like to see him do that shot.

I agree that 500 yards is a poke, but with the right sabots and the right bullet I think that it is possible.

edge.

PS I shoot 30 cal. 150 grain Accu-Bond bullets from my 45 caliber ML

Your system and bullet selection is definately not what the average muzzleloader is going to be using. I do think you have a lot better chance of that long range shot with that bullet ; however the kill zone does not get any larger regardless of bullet and when I look at a paper plate at even 300 yards it is getting pretty small. Like I said; somebody can probably do it but it sure isn't just because of using smokeless powder.

[edgemark]

I machine and rifle them on a cnc lathe.  
Barrel is a Shilen match blank for a 458 win mag. that I put on a model 110 Savage action,
rifling is 1:14

I also have a Krieger in .505 Gibbs 1:20 twist that shoots 150 grain 8mm ProHunter bullets lights out

I am currently working on a plain jane H&R 45-70 ML ( not Huntsman )conversion for shooting .45 bullets without sabots.

edge.

PS On another forum someone was questioning whether a 2-7x scope was enough for a 300 yard shot.  Here was my reply post:

"I had a chance to test my scope at 7x yesterday.

From where I sat I could see a power-line tower that according to Google Earth was 408 yards away from my position. There is a Danger No Trespassing sign that measures approximately 18h x 24w inches.

I sat with my back to a tree and had a tall bi-pod attached for hunting.

First, I left the scope on 3x. I could not read the writing, younger eyes may have been able to
With no particular spot to aim, I found that the crosshairs danced around but stayed easily in the kill zone.

Second, I adjusted the scope to 7x. The writing was clear, even for me. I decided that the "D" in Danger looked to be a nice size target, and at 7x I could keep the crosshairs on the "D" without too much trouble.

When I left for the morning I went over to the tower to see the sign. The letter "D" looked to be about 4 inches high and about 3 inches wide.

IMO a 7X scope, assuming a good rest is certainly more than enough scope for hunting.....and if any "letters" get in your way...they are toast

edge. "