Nosler 300 Grain Partition Failure

[Ka6otm]

Anybody read the April 2003 issue of Handloader Magazine article called "Casting Softnose Bullets" by Ross Seyfried?  On page 28 he starts a description of how a Nosler 300 grain partition 45/70 failed on a shot at an Elk during a hunt he was on.

He attributes this to the Low BC of this bullet.  What he essentially is saying is that you can't make a partition type bullet that will work at 300 grains in this bore size.

Interestingly enough, if you look at the Barnes 300 grain X bullet, the BC is .340 which is, of course because it is so long as it's not a lead bullet.

The X bullet compares favorably even with my personal favorite, the RCBS 45-405-FN which only has a BC of .303.

FWIW
Ka6otm

[Advocate]

How did the bullet fail?  Fail to expand? Fail to penetrate?

[Ka6otm]

Advocate,

The author said it hit the shoulder bone and failed to penetrate further.  He said what had probably happened was that the front portion expanded violently and that effectively stopped penetration.

He compared the expanded Nosler to a quarter in that it was wide but not thick.

He also said that he was a big fan of Nosler partitions, but only when they are fired at higher velocities and had a higher BC.

Ka6otm

[1GLOCK]

I use the 45/70 300g partition gold for hunting deer in PA. Just last year I shot a doe in the head at about 50 yards. It entered on the left side of the nose and drove back into the skull. Of course she dropped instantly, however, at that distance it should have taken the back of her head off but acctually it didnt even exit at all. I can believe that it failed on a front sholder bone of an elk and after seeing the results first hand I wouldnt use the 300g partition gold 45/70 on anything larger than whitetails.

[Lawdog]

Ka6otm,

Do you know what the was he was using?  Did he state the velocity of the round?  A 300 grain bullet out of a .45-70 should have a velocity of around 1900 fps. +/-.  If he has it loaded down to a to low velocity then yeah the bullet won't penetrate.  If this is the case then don't blame the bullet, blame the load.  Lawdog

[Zachary]

A .45 caliber 300 Nosler Partition failing is not something that should be considered usual - I don't think.

I own a 454 Cassul and shoot 260 grain Nosler partitions - and these bullets have penetrated a 150 pound hog when hit in the shoulder (the bullet went through the other side.)

So we are talking about a similar diameter bullet, weight 40 grains more, and driven to higher velocities.  Something doesn't sound right.

Zachary

[captainkirk]

Sounds like it was loaded too hot and the impact "overwhelmed" the alloy, or the bullet was just too soft with the same results.  Hate to say this, but B.C. has nothing to do with penetration.  Sectional density does however.  Often, bullets with low SDs have low BCs and vice versa.  SD is the weight over the dia. of the bullet whereas BC just describes the shape of the bullet in flight, which changes with velocity.  Too light bullet construction, too high a velociy and too low a SD can result in the above game failure... IMHO

Kirk

[Ka6otm]

captainkirk,

Yep, I think he meant to say SD but said BC inadvertently as he's a pretty sharp guy but I wanted to put down exactly what he said and not my interpretation, which was also SD.

He didn't state muzzle velocity or any other pertinent factors in the article.

At any rate, he goes on in the article to describe the construction of cast bullets with a pure or almost pure lead nose and WW or lino rear end.  I've read this kind of stuff before but it's always interesting.

Ka6otm

[Advocate]

I read the article and he did say Sectional Density, not Ballistic coefficient.

[Paul H]

I just read the article last night.  While I really enjoy Ross's articles, I think one has to take the report of bullet failure in this case with a grain of salt.  The animal was never recovered, so it was speculation as to what happened with that bullet in regards to failure, or maybe shot placement being less then ideal.

[Lawdog]

Paul H,

I haven't read the article.  I don't subscribe to that magazine but seeing that the animal was never recovered I whole heartily agree with you.  I don't see how anyone could make a statement blaming the bullet without having the bullet to back up their statement.  Most likely his bullet didn't go where he though it did.  I mean even the best of shots miss every so often.  I've been using Nosler Partitions for 40 years in everything from .22 to .45 caliber.  Rifle or handgun they have never failed me.  Lawdog

[Florida Jim]

Hi Guys.
I just joined this group. I thought I would add my two cents. I haven been hunting with a #3 ruger in 45/70 for several years. Until This year I used the Hornady 300gr Hp over 55.5 gr's of IMR 3031, Federal 215 primer, and a Lee factory crimp. I shot three deer with this load. On two occasions the bullet blew up causing a real mess. This year I switched ot the 300gr partition with the same load. I was extremely pleased I shot an "8" point @ 125yds. the bullet went through both lungs with about an inch and a quarter exit hole. The deer went about seventy yards and piled up. I'm pleased with this bullet, it shoots a little over an inch @ 100 yds with my ruger, and also with my buddies 1895 ss.

thanks

Jim

[Joe4d]

Well even if true I would say it is more of a loading failure than a bullet failure. If I take a bullet designed for a 35 rem and launch it from a .358 Norma magnum it aint gonna work. Most lighter 45/70 bullets are designed for trapdoor velocities. A look at most bullet company reloading manuals will give recommended use and velocities for their products.  For elk size game there are much better 45/70 bullets out there.

[Blackhawk44]

What was meant is that the bullet lacked a reasonable length of shank left after expansion to maintain weight and steer the bullet on a straight course for penetration because of overexpansion of the nose section.   Partitions traditionally expand the nose, wipe the lead off the nose, peel the jacket back about the shank and continue on their way like a FMJ.  The problem is that the bullets of shorter overall length (produced at our demand, pistol type and .458) don't have enough available interior space to accomplish the original design intent, i.e. no FMJ shank left of any length, just a ball of gum type wad.

[Mikey]

Guys:  I read that article and asked myself why the hay anyone would want to use a 300 grain .458 diameter bullet on an animal that size and at that range.  That's a short, fat bullet and it isn't going to penetrate worth a darn on an animal that size.  When Seyfreid mentioned it's failure on a shoulder blade I thought to myself - you idjit, what the hay did you expect.  And this guy is a reknowned African hunter - whoooo boy.  

You might be able to get some better penetration from a bullet like that if it was a spire point design and you weren't using a lever gun but you might encounter limitations due to OAL and tube feeding problems with spire points.  

While the 300 grain 45-70 might just whomp you right the hay out of your saddle I don't think it will do the same on a large game animal.  The 400 grain bullet will do anything you can ask of a 45-70 but the 300 is limited.  If I was going to use a 300 grain bullet I would prefer it from a 43 bore - much more penetration.  Another two cents worth.  Mikey.

[Yukon Jack]

Another thing to consider is the 300 grain Nosler in 45 cal has a sectional density of .204.  They do not make another bullet with that low of sectional density, according to Nosler.  Even the lightweight 270, 7mm and 30 cal offerings are in the mid-2's.  I'm sure the 300 grain offering is fine for whitetails and such, but for large animals, the sectional density is just not there for a leadcore bullet to hold together no matter how well it is made.  It would be akin to using a 90 grain 270 cal Ballistic Tips on Whitetails.  I wouldn't do that.

Just a few thoughts to consider.