Author Topic: Savage 99 series A in 300 Savage for $400 - good buy?  (Read 2008 times)

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Offline shilo

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Savage 99 series A in 300 Savage for $400 - good buy?
« on: October 28, 2006, 03:58:07 PM »
The above gun is in 90%, maybe slightly better, condition. All the blue is there. None of the screw heads are buggered up. The wood appears to be birch (maybe?) light in color with impressed checkering. It has the rotary magazine, is drilled and tapped (plugs still in place) and lever saftey. Doesn't appear to have been cycled hardly at all.  The serial number is located on the left side of the barrel above the forearm. Pistol grip stock, no monte carlo, straight forearm. No dings or scratches in the wood. Didn't get the lever boss letter. This gun looks very nice and clean. I've always thought I'd like to have a Savage 99, but I don't know enough about them to know if this is a good price for this one. I'm thinking about buying this gun and have a hold on it. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Offline shilo

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Re: Savage 99 series A in 300 Savage for $400 - good buy?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2006, 04:12:06 PM »
I could be wrong about the impressed checkering.

Offline Ron T.

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Re: Savage 99 series A in 300 Savage for $400 - good buy?
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2006, 11:09:51 AM »
Generally, ANY Model 99 in decent condition is worth AT LEAST $400... but since you didn't offer a serial number or Lever Boss Code, it's hard to say what model you have. 

Sounds like the rifle has a birch stock (light wood = birch, dark wood = walnut).  What is the rifle's caliber?  Is there a cartridge counter on the left side of the receiver?


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."  - Thomas Jefferson

Offline shilo

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Re: Savage 99 series A in 300 Savage for $400 - good buy?
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2006, 12:36:50 PM »
The rifle's caliber is 300 Savage and while it has the rotary magazine there is no cartridge counter. I thought the stock might be birch. I wish I would have got the SN and LBC. I will give them a call tomorrow and see if I can get those. This gun is in very nice shape. Are they still worth 400 even with a birch stock? Thanks

Offline shilo

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Re: Savage 99 series A in 300 Savage for $400 - good buy?
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2006, 12:03:43 PM »
Serial number is 600xxx.  So this would indicate a pre 1960 and probably a Chicopee Falls gun ?

Offline Ron T.

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Re: Savage 99 series A in 300 Savage for $400 - good buy?
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2006, 03:53:02 PM »
There is very likely an "A" in front of the "600xxx" serial number.  If so, it was made in 1970 at Savage's current manufacturing facilities located in Westfield, Mass.  Savage moved their facilities from Chicopee Fall, Mass. to Westfield, Mass. in 1960.  It probably does not have a Lever Boss Code.

I'd guess you have a Model "E" ("Economy") with impressed checkering (added in 1966) with a corrugated hard rubber butt-plate and a 24-inch barrel on your .300 Savage.

If the light-colored (yes, it is birch) wood bothers you, remove it, sand it down and stain it with walnut stain and add a few coats of Casey's Tru-Oil stock finish, lightly sanding between completely dry coats.

It is a decent rifle and worth $400... but $350 would be a better deal.  It would make a good hunting rifle for any non-dangerous game in N. America if the shot is placed with care.


Strength and honor...

Ron T.
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."  - Thomas Jefferson

Offline shilo

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Re: Savage 99 series A in 300 Savage for $400 - good buy?
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2006, 02:23:17 PM »
Ron T, you nailed it. I went back to look at it tonight. I'm still debating about buying it even though it is an economy model. What is so appealing to me about it is how clean the metal is. Even on the lever there are no signs of wear. Barely any on the bolt. I don't think this rifle was hardly shot. I like the idea of refinishing the stock darker. That is an excellent idea. Still kicking it around.

Offline Ron T.

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Re: Savage 99 series A in 300 Savage for $400 - good buy?
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2006, 05:19:29 PM »
GO for it, Shilo... you'll be carrying one of the greatest deer rifles ever made into the woods in the future.

No "brag", just FACT!   :)


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."  - Thomas Jefferson

Offline shilo

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Re: Savage 99 series A in 300 Savage for $400 - good buy?
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2007, 01:04:43 PM »
Got to thinking about this rifle again and called yesterday to see if it was still there; and it was. Went over after work to take another look at it and bought it for $349. It appears that it was never shot. There are no marks on the bolt, there are no marks on the feed ramp, no marks on the rotary shell holder, none on the lever, and almost no blueing wear where the back of the bolt rises up into the reciever. The exterior finish is mint. It is the economy version, but I am real please with it. The gun feels light and well balanced. I never realized how nice 99's carried before. The serial number has a letter C in front of it - C600xxx.

Offline Ron T.

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Re: Savage 99 series A in 300 Savage for $400 - good buy?
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2007, 08:27:38 PM »
C600xxx would probably be a late 1977 model... or a very early 1978 model.  Best guess = late 1977 model E (Economy).

You made a good buy at $350... especially if the rifle hasn't been shot very much.  Remove and sand the birch stock and forearm down if you would like to stain it with a walnut stain to darken the wood.

After the initial sanding with a very fine sandpaper, lightly wet the stock with a cloth dampened with water to raise the grain or "whiskers".  Once the wood is dry, re-sand it again until very smooth... then repeat the wetting down and re-sanding until wetting the wood does NOT raise any more "whiskers" in the wood.  That will probably take 2 or 3 "cycles" of wetting, drying and sanding down before the wood remains very smooth after being wetted down.

Stain the wood according to the directions on the container of stain.  Once you have gotten to the level of color you wish, you're ready to put the final finish on the stock.  Make sure you are starting out with the stock stained the color you wish and the grain of the wood has been "raised" and sanding down until the wood is very, very smooth to the touch.  The smoother the wood, the better it will look after refinishing.

Before beginning the Tru-Oil part of the refinishing, you might wish to figure out how you are going to "hang" the wood to DRY since it's surface will be wet with the Tru-Oil and can not be touched or touch any other surface until it's dry.  When I did my stocks, I used a small screw and screwed it a short way into an inside part of the stock or forearm that won't have any Tru-Oil put on it and arranged wires hung from over-head pipes or nails in the basement to hold the wood away from any other surface and out of the way of any "foot-traffic" so that nothing would disturb or touch the wood until it had a chance to thoroughly dry. 

Once you're wetting the stock with the Tru-Oil, it's a poor time to think of doing something like this... so PRE-THINK what you're doing and make the necessary "arrangements" for safely drying the wood.

Allow the wood to dry thoroughly, then using your finger dipped in Casey's Tru-Oil, smear a very light coat of Tru-Oil evenly (as possible) over the entire surface of the wood.  Allow it to dry for at least 24 hours, then using a clean, soft cloth (an old T-shirt or cotton underwear), fold the cotton cloth over a few times, put your forefinger in the cloth and wet the cloth where your finger-tip is with a white sewing machine oil, then dip the wetted part of the cloth in some rottenstone (a fine-grained, light tan powdered abrasive about the consistency of flour), covering the oil-wet part of the cloth and rub the dried Tru-Oil/wood surface with the oil/rottenstone mixture on the cloth until the wood's surface is very smooth.  Re-dip the cloth where your finger is in it in the rottenstone or wet it with a drop or so of oil as often as necessary to hold the rottenstone on the tip of the cloth while you're rubbing down the wood.

As you use this combination of light oil and rottenstone, an lightly-abrasive spot of smooth, darkened rottenstone will build up on your cloth.  This is desired.  You want to build up a spot that retains the rottenstone and yet, isn't "wet" with oil...  and becomes a lightly abrasive "pad" with which to rub down the surface of the Tru-Oil and give that surface a soft glow after the wood is wiped off with a soft, VERY lightly dampened (with water) cloth to remove any remaining rottenstone dust before adding another coat of Tru-Oil.

Wipe the surface of the wood off with a water-dampened cloth to remove any remaining rottenstone "dust" and allow wood to thoroughtly dry (an hour or two).  Then, using your finger, add another light coat of Tru-Oil to the entire stock and allow to thoroughly dry (24 hours).  Do not allow the Tru-Oil to "puddle" or build up any "depth" on the wood's surface since this might create a blemish on the wood's surface as you rub the Tru-Oil out with the rottenstone and oil.

Then, using the same spot of the same cloth as before, lightly wet the cloth with a drop or two of the oil, dip the wetted spot in the rottenstone and rub-out the entire stock smooth once again...re-dipping the same spot on the cloth into the rottenstone as necessary to keep the rottenstone present on the cloth in an almost-dry paste form.

When all the wood has been polished with the rottenstone held on the cloth with the oil,  wipe down the wood once again with a slightly water-dampened soft clean cloth and allow to dry thoroughly (an hour or so) before adding another coat of Tru-Oil.  Allow that coat to dry thoroughly (24 hours).  Then repeat the process of wetting the spot on the cloth with a drop or so of the light machine oil, dipping that same spot in rottenstone and polishing the surface of the wood until you are completely satisfied with the quality of the finish you have put on the wood.

You will find the finish begins to look very good after as few as 3 or 4 coats of "rubbed-out" Tru-Oil.  However, the more coats you apply, allow to dry thoroughly, then rub-out with rottenstone and oil, the more the surface of the wood will take on that "soft glow".  The more coats you add & rub-out, the more resistant to dents and scratches the stock will become... and the better the wood will look.

I've done some of my rifle and shotgun stocks with as little as 5 coats or as many as 13 coats.  Naturally, the stock with the 13 coats looks the best, but after 5 or 6 coats, there is little change with each new coat.

Rottenstone is a very, very fine, light tan, powder-like abrasive about the consistancy of flour.  It is an excellent abrasive for doing this kind of work since it will yield a very smooth, beautiful finish that will resist dents and scratches.  The finish holds up quite well and will last a life-time with normal care.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.  :)


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."  - Thomas Jefferson

Offline shilo

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Re: Savage 99 series A in 300 Savage for $400 - good buy?
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2007, 11:52:19 AM »
Ron T., just want to say thanks for all the information you've posted. I'm thinking about what I want to do with the stock. Refinishing is one option or Boyd's has replacement walnut stocks for a resonable price. I'll probably put a Burris 2-7x scope on it. What sort of accuracy is decent accuracy for these guns?  Going to try to work up a decent load for it with 165gr bullets. Thanks again.

Offline Ron T.

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Re: Savage 99 series A in 300 Savage for $400 - good buy?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2007, 06:30:31 PM »
You're gonna find the new Boyd's stock will probably need some inletting and hand-fitting before you can put your action into it... but that is your decision to make.  Your scope choice sounds very good... more than enough scope for the .300 Savage cartridge.

My own 1953 "EG" Model 99 in .300 Savage shooting 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip Bullets consistantly shoots 3-shot groups measuring ¾ of an inch @ 100 yards off the bench-rest.  Initially, I thought my Model 99 was especially accurate, but after spending 3½ years in a Savage Collector's Forum at another site, I realized this kind of accuracy is fairly normal for Model 99s.

Naturally, careful handloading will probably help give your rifle the best accuracy.  Try IMR3031 and IMR4895 with your favorite 150 grain bullet... both powders have given me excellent muzzle velocity together with fine accuracy.  And IMR4064 and IMR4320 don't do a bad job, either.    ;)


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."  - Thomas Jefferson

Offline SM Bob

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Re: Savage 99 series A in 300 Savage for $400 - good buy?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2007, 12:26:12 PM »
Ron T,
Thank you so much for all the great information that you share with your fellow Savage 99 addicts! I really enjoy reading your responses
to all the questions that are asked here. It is obvious you know what you are talking about.
 I have a question or two regarding stock and forearm refinishing for a Savage 99. I have located a 99 in 300 Savage in a pawn shop. It is in decent shape. The bluing is pretty good. The bore looks pretty good as well. The wood could definitely use refinishing. It will be my first Savage 99. I see by your reference to Tru Oil that you use the Birchwood Casey products. I located a stock refinishing kit from them at Bass Pro. Would you recommend that route or purchase the products separately? I don't believe this kit has rottonstone, so I will purchase that separately. Do you ever use any finish remover on a stock before sanding? Do you recommend using some kind of sanding block when sanding the wood? And last, but not least. What kind of precautions do you take around the existing checkering as not to booger it up with the sandpaper when you are finishing a stock and forearm? My interest in this rifle is for shooting and hunting. I don't own, nor do I care to own any "safe queens." Everything I own, I shoot the heck out of it. I take good care of my firearms, but I don't "baby" them either.  Thanks!

                                                                              Robert

Offline Ron T.

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Re: Savage 99 series A in 300 Savage for $400 - good buy?
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2007, 08:12:56 PM »
I suggest you merely buy a bottle of the Casey's Tru-Oil and, at your local hardware store, get some rough, fine and super-fine sandpaper plus a small box of rotten stone. 

I'm not familiar with their "kit". If you feel it would be to your advantage to buy and use their kit, so be it.  The kit may furnish the proper grit of sandpaper needed to get the job done, but do NOT skip rubbing the dried Tru-Oil down with ROTTENSTONE & OIL... that step will give you the super finish that will last a life-time on your rifle.

That's all the materials you're gonna need.  You don't need a sanding block or finish remover... use your fingers or doubled-over sandpaper for the initial sanding.  Once the initial sanding is done with the rough sandpaper, move to the next lighter grit, once that's used on the wood, move to the very fine sandpaper being, at all times, careful around the checkering , you won't need to use the sandpaper anymore once you've raised the grain a few times and sanded the "whiskers" down... leaving the wood's surface very smooth and dense.

Remove the wood from the rifle, don't even THINK about attempting to do this refinishing job with the wood ON the rifle.  Work carefully with the lightest of sandpaper around the checkering as best you can.  If you're careful around the checkering, you shouldn't bother it too much.

For deer sized game, use a 150 grain bullet.  For elk, moose or black bear, use the 165 grain bullet.  I suggest 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip and the Nosler 165 grain Partition, but... again... you're "THE MAN"... so what you use is up to you.  However, the Partition bullet is "THE" big game bullet which is considered "THE" standard to which all other bullet's performance is judged.

The "secret" to getting the very best finish you possibly can get is two-fold:
1) Sanding the wood as smooth as possible and being especially attentive to raise the wood's grain ("whiskers") several times by wetting it lightly, allowing it to dry, then using light sandpaper, sanding down those "whiskers" you raised by wetting the wood... and
2) Allowing each new coat of Tru-Oil to THOROUGHLY dry (24 hours is good), then using the rottenstone and oil to rub out that finish and make the wood "glow" with beauty.  It will take 3 or 4 coats before it really beings to "glow" and become beautiful... then each new rubbed down coat continues to increase the depth and beauty.

There is NO LIMIT to the number of coats you can use, but you reach a point of diminishing returns after 6 or 8 coats.  I put 13 coats on one rifle... and it truly is beautiful, but I used 5 to 8 coats on most of my guns.  When you get "tired" of the work, then that will be "enough" coats.  Hahahahahahaha    ;D ;D ;D

Have fun... it's a labor-of-love...   ;)


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."  - Thomas Jefferson

Offline SM Bob

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Re: Savage 99 series A in 300 Savage for $400 - good buy?
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2007, 09:39:55 PM »
Thanks Ron T!
I do my own reloading and look forward to working up some loads for the 300 Savage. The rifle isn't drilled and tapped and it has a peep
sight. I plan on leaving it the way it is after I finish the wood. I have the feeling it will be one of those guns that it takes a day or more to wipe the smile off of your face after you get done shooting it! ;D

                                                                    Robert

Offline Ron T.

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Re: Savage 99 series A in 300 Savage for $400 - good buy?
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2007, 03:17:23 PM »
Robert...

I dunno if it will help you or not, but I worked up hunting loads using IMR3031, IMR4895, IMR4064 and Hodgdon's Varget for my .300 Savage in a Model 99 "EG".

In addition, I tried 5 different primers and found the most accurate combination with the highest muzzle velocity (2680 fps) using a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip Bullet was a maximum load of IMR4895 (41.5 grains) with standard Winchester large rifle primers in once-fired Winchester cartridge cases.

However, the latest IMR4895 powders (now owned by Hodgdon) haven't yielded the high velocities I once got, so I'm gonna load up some loads containing 40.0 grains of IMR3031 because that powder also gave me excellent accuracy (¾ inch groups at 100 yards) with only a slightly lower (2665 fps) muzzle velocity.

That load, 40.0 grains of IMR3031 behind a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet is a MAXIMUM load... approach it with caution.  Another powder you might try is IMR4320.

Good luck...  ;)


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."  - Thomas Jefferson

Offline SM Bob

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Re: Savage 99 series A in 300 Savage for $400 - good buy?
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2007, 03:48:51 PM »
Thanks for the heads up Ron T!
I have loaded for my .30'06 and my .308 With both 3031 and IMR 4895 and have had good results. I was planning on starting with both of these powders when I start reloading for the 300 Savage. I have never used Varget before, but a friend of mine uses it for several different calibers and he likes it a lot. I might give it a try later on. Can you get away with neck sizing only in the Savage 99 in 300 Savage
after the cases have been fire formed or do I need to full length size them every time?

                                         Thanks

                                         Robert

Offline Ron T.

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Re: Savage 99 series A in 300 Savage for $400 - good buy?
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2007, 04:30:54 PM »
You'll need to FULL LENGTH resize the brass for a lever-action rifle... or for a semi-auto or pump-action rifle as well.  I "neck-size only" for my pre-'64 Model 70 "Alaskan" (.338 Win. Mag. w/ 26" barrel) and my RSI in 7x57mm Mauser (single-shot Ruger #1 International with a full-length Mannlicher-style stock & 20-inch barrel).

I was disappointed in Hodgdon's Varget in my Model 99's .300 Savage handloads.  On 3 different  burning rate charts, Vargets shows up just above (faster burning) or just below (slower burning) the burning rate of IMR4064.  In my thorough tests, I found IMR4064 to be a bit too slow (burning) for the .300 Savage cartridge behind a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet.

Varget is a bit too slow, too... and gave ONLY average accuracy in my Model 99.  I am considering RL-15 and a re-test of IMR3031.  IMR3031 gave me good muzzle velocity (around 2660 fps) and was reasonably accurate, but I'd like to test it further with a variety of primers.

I liked the load density of IMR3031... I loaded the old maximum load of 40.0 grains while the latest maximum load is now 40.2 grains in a well-known bullet-maker's latest reloading manual.  However, I found the 40.0 grain maximum load filled the case to the base of the long 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet.

In my experience, I've found a powder that yields a maximum muzzle velocity when it fills the cartridge case to the base of the bullet to very likely be "THE" most accurate load.  This is why I want to re-test IMR3031 using 4 or 5 different primers.

In 2002, when I did most of my testing for the .300 Savage cartridge, I only tried the standard Winchester primers with IMR3031 because that primer had proven to be the most accurate in all my loads of IMR4895. 

Unfortunately, IMR4895 has "changed".  However... a recent test of the "new" IMR4895 indicates a muzzle velocity loss of over 75 fps using the same 41.5 grain load (a maximum load)... far too much velocity loss to be "normal".  Butttttttttt... this is why I'm now intending to do more testing... especially a more thorough testing of IMR3031 which is a faster burning powder than IMR4895.

Good luck on your quest...   :)


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."  - Thomas Jefferson