Taylor's& Co. Armi-Sport Sharps replicas

[detritus]

greetings to all,

this is my first post.   so bear with me here  

reacently i went to the local shop that both stocks Sharps relicas of various makers, AND that i trust to tell me the truth, or at least THEIR actually experience with a product. instead of trying to sell me the item in the rack/case that makes them the most profit.     i went in witht eh intention of gathering information of various models of Pedersoli Sharps repros.  esp. those models that would be ready or close to ready to shoot in BPCR/BPCR silhoette matches, or the SASS "long range single shot" side matches.

while there the owner advised me to look into the Sharps rifles being made by Armi-sport and imported by Taylor's.  and sited one particular model that he said might fill my needs as a "starter gun" for this sport, that taylor's didn't have listed on their on-line catalog, but was comparable to the Pedersoli but (in his words) came with a better tang sight, and also that the Armi-sport was machined from Barstock instead of a casting like the Pedersoli (don't know if that's true, and that's a question i have).   also his price on the Taylor's was between $100 and $200 cheaper than a similarly equipped(sp?) Pedersoli.

what can you guys tell me about the Armi-sport guns?   and how do they compare to pedersoli, etc. ?

i can't afford a C. Sharps, or shiloh sharps yet or this wouldn't even be a question.  i KNOW that the "guns from montana"  are pretty much top of the line but for now i gotta go with the italian economy class  :roll:  lol

anyway thank you for your time.    any and all input  appreciated.

[Cottonwood]

From what I heard, Armi-sport is of a lesser quality than that of Pedersoli, but I could be wrong.  Always check your wood to metal finish, and remember that Italy has or is suppose to have ridged inspection that must be met before the rifle can leave period.  The only important thing here is WHAT YOU want and like.

Taylor's web site and they do look nice.  Remember there is Dixie Gun Works that has great prices on Pedersoli Sharps rifles.  And then of course there is always Cherry's Fine Guns which has some great Pedersoli Sharps on hand at great prices, Rolling Block "John Bodine" with double set triggers in either 45-70 or 45-90.


Remember for BPCR and or silhoette matches a shotgun buttstock is desirable as well as the pistol grip.

The only way your going to get a better tang sight is to order the Pedersoli Soule Sight because the ones that come on the rifles are junk anyway.

BTW, what model Pedersoli are you looking at for what it is your going to shoot.

[cam0063]

I am in a similar situation to you detritus, researching all I can before I make a final descision... I have been in touch with Armi Sport on the availabilty of actions and was informed that their actions are CNC machined and from block steel. From other gunsmith sources I have also found that their action quality is very good also.

Like The Montanan said, check the metal to wood fit and finish! I believe several distributors can be importing rifles from the same Italian manufactruing company, just with their specifications. So wood quality/feature/figure can vary from one distributor to another...  To behonest I have personally seen very few Sharps from any manufacturer, so I am going by the knowlege of others here. Much of which has come the many enjoyable hours I have spent on this forum - reading and learning!

Like you I am also at the mercy of the $! My 1st choice would be a 16lb .45-100 [2.6"] Shiloh. This would suit me down to the ground. Unfortunately with our very poor Aussie $, the cost of the rifle and reloading accessories is almost doubled and then I have to get this into the country. Can be done, but no easy feat! I also want a rifle with a custom touch - native Australian timber stocks, just to make things difficult! haha. So my best option is to order what I need and have the rifle built here. I am told an unchambered barrel is relatively easy to import. Chamber it and/or attach it to an action and the import procedure becomes much more difficult and time consuming...

I have looked far and wide on rifles and actions, inparticular - actions! Shiloh are outstanding, I believe C.Sharps, Ballard, Meecham, CPA etc, etc are all very good or as good!. Pedersoli and Armi Sport appear to be well made and have a good following so I don`t think you can go far wrong there.... I have more enquiring/learning to do, however at this stage my rifle project is looking to be very multicultural! Australian timber stocks, U.S made Barrel, U.S sights and maybe an Italian action! With a West Aussie pulling the trigger! Yep Multicultural!

cheers from down this way.

Cam.........

[detritus]

the example of the taylor's Sharps that i've handled was superb in this area.  that example was stocked in what seemed to be a "dark blonde" (don't know right term for wood) hardwood.  didn't look like Walnut to me, but it was still good wood,and well fitted to the stock.    
just a side note according to my dealer, Taylor's has started shipping the fitted buttstocks in a separate box from the rest of the rifle due to the high number of breakages that were occuring during shipping.   he's even had a gun come in that he had to wait a day to call the customer that ordered it b/c UPS (or whoever) misrouted the stock!!  :lol:  

as for my intentions for use of the gun, well first off and primarily i just want a Sharps Repro.  the first time i ever thought about using one for competition was during the time i was shooting SASS sanctioned Cowboy Action matches and some of the clubs had long range side matches after the main shoot with categories for single shot and lever rifle.  this lead me to look into THAT venue and also at the time i first started looking my local gun club (the one i am a member of) was holding monthly BPCR matches, or at least they were listed in the newsletter.  so i'd thought about joining that group....
now the only BPCR listing we have (and for all i know it could be a misprint) is the Texas State championships June 27-29.   and the black powder group is back to shooting Muzzle loaders exclusively.

the Pedersoli models i was (and still am) looking at were the Heavy target, Long range, and silhoette versions.  though at the time i entered the shop and was told about the taylor's guns i think i'd narrowed it down to teh Heavy target modle based simply on the fact that i could FIND examples of it, much less for around my price range.

well i hope that is of help or at least doesn't muddy the waters   :-)

thank you for your replies.

[Hot Foot II]

Hi Gents,

For what it is worth I have never seen an Armi-Sport Sharps used at a BPCR Silhouette Match.  Not once.  I have seen Pedersolis... mostly Sharps replicas with an occasional Rolling Block.  I am beginning to see more of those.  I have one each of those and they are very good... lots of fun and accurate.

In my area (Michigan, USA) the most common rifle during the last 2 or 3 years is probably the Browning BPCR.  The rest are Shiloh Sharps, C-Sharps and the Pedersolis along with Ballards, Custom rolling blocks and Winchesters (custom and replicas) and an occasional Stevens.  Then there is the odd duck like me who shows up with an original trapdoor most of the time.  Again...NEVER an Armi-Sport.

"For what it is worth."  If you get one I hope it works well for you.  Might be fine for Cowboy Action type shooting and hunting etc. but I can't say from personal experience.  Maybe they are underrated and suffer from lack of exposure.  I just don't know.  Fit and finish are nice but the real questions are "Does it SHOOT?... Will it hold up under lots of use"?  And if it breaks can it be fixed readily?..., parts availability? etc etc.

Hoppy

[detritus]

Maybe they are underrated and suffer from lack of exposure.  I just don't know.  Fit and finish are nice but the real questions are "Does it SHOOT?... Will it hold up under lots of use"?  And if it breaks can it be fixed readily?..., parts availability? etc etc.

truly these are the questions I'D like answered....  like you said parts, (possibly service since i'm no smith), durability, HOW DOES IT SHOOT??

i've never personally been able to get to a BPCR match.  so i don't know what does and does not get used in my area.  nearest match to me is close to 2 hours drive and right now since i have other interests preceeding this in the "funding chain"  that's a bit far to drive.

these are the things i DO know,   cimarron firearms  sells the Pedersoli and Armi-sport Sharps side by side with the price and name of manufacture as the only differences.
My Dealer beleives the Armi-sport to actually be as you said an "underrated maker" and in his oppinion a better gun than the comparable Pedersoli.  again he sites the witnessed failures of Pedersoli made guns with BP loads.  

and as i've tried to say from the begining i'm trying to get as much FACT about these guns as i can before i make ANY sort of decision about what to get.  

the only things i KNOW that i need/want/of have to by monetary staus, to stick to, with regard to what to get for a Sharps Repro for me, are

1. can't afford a Shiloh or C. sharps (hopefully one day i will)

2. shotgun style buttplate

3. tang peep sight, possibly a globe style front

and 4. Accurate and Safe with standard loads (i've come to beleive that
            Peddretti and ASM = hand grenade on a stock)

anyway,  all help and advice appreciated.    i'll admit it i'm a litle lost sheep here.

[cam0063]

I too have heard the Pedretti have been of average quality when compared to the competition. They don`t look as smooth as the other Sharps 74s on the market...

As mentioned I have done much research into actions in particular... The various Gunsmith advice I have from here and the U.S, is the 2 main Italian manufacturers [Pedersoli and Armi Sport] make a good strong action, maybe not of the same quality league as Shiloh or C.Sharps but none the less a good, safe, strong, usable rifle which makes a good start into the world of BPCR's... There are quite a few rifles on club ranges by either of these manufacturers in this country. I have spoken to a few of the shooters and have heard no complaints... So I think you will be fairly right in the direction you are headed!

cheers,

Cam......

[445supermag]

I have a arma sport (IAB) in 45/70.
The good parts
Ilike the safty, it blocks the firing pin .
I is light enough to carry hunting
The wood and metal finish is good for the price.
The bad
IT shoots good enough for hunting
I have not been able to getit to shoot cast bullits for bpcr compition.
 ON the whole i like the gun but it is too light for sillewet comp. You will have to grt good sites. The pedersole (175$) tang is only good starter site avable. Spend another 225$ and get a Lee shaver tang site.Most pedersole sites end up being sent to Lee to be fixed up. Lee has 2 sites, a pedersole redon and his new cnc machined tang site.I have both and the new one is much better. Gun parts caries IAB (arme, taylor) parts.

[Dusty Ed]

Howdy Pards
Here is my story i shoot BPCRS at Shippensburg Pa. I have never seen
one being shot at a match .
I shoot a pedersoli with 6 or 7000 through it and a Rem. RB 4065 with Ron Snover barrel with 2 or 3000 through it.
A buddy of mine bought a Taylors Armi sport 1874 sharps well it had an over sized bore it would only shoot 5 to 6" at 200 yards. he traded it for a Pedersoli and will 2" the same as mine that is on a good day when our eyes are working we are getting pretty old.
So last fall we went to Friends of the NRA dinner and Low and Behold i
I won a TAYLORS SHARPS so here i go i put the sights off my Pedersoli it
shoots the same ammo as my Pedersoli unsized 68grs.2ff goex 457125 lyman.
and it shoots 2"at 200yds.
                                       Dusty Ed :wink:

[Cottonwood]

I have a arma sport (IAB) in 45/70.
The good parts
Ilike the safty, it blocks the firing pin .
I is light enough to carry hunting
The wood and metal finish is good for the price.
The bad
IT shoots good enough for hunting
I have not been able to getit to shoot cast bullits for bpcr compition.
 ON the whole i like the gun but it is too light for sillewet comp. You will have to grt good sites. The pedersole (175$) tang is only good starter site avable. Spend another 225$ and get a Lee shaver tang site.Most pedersole sites end up being sent to Lee to be fixed up. Lee has 2 sites, a pedersole redon and his new cnc machined tang site.I have both and the new one is much better. Gun parts caries IAB (arme, taylor) parts.

I have the same Sharps rifle but had it reamed up to 45-90.  Now I started playing with paper patched bullets and could not be happier with the results.  Will shoot under 1" at 100 yards.

The bullet is a RCBS CBPP that is 530-gr, I use 90.0 gr of FFFg compressed .450" with Starline Brass.

Rear tang sight is the long range soule sight sold by Lee Shaver with a Lyman 17a front globe.  I also have the Shiloh #102 rear barrel sight on the Sharps for when I go hunting.

This one will work for me until I can purchase the Shiloh rifle that I want.

[Lead pot]

Montanan:
 that bullet is that a cup base,or a flat base?and is it tapered?That is mighty fine shooting.

You know, I read a lot of posts on the cost of different Rifles.You take the Sharps Rifles made over seas,they cost just about as much as the American Rifles like the Shiloh or the C Sharps.
You can get a verry good base modle #3 Shiloh for 1504 or a #1 for 1595.And they now have a few you can get over the counter ready build.When you drop the under lever it feals like it is working on bearings,the fit is perfect and the case hardening has good coloring.now they give you a hard packed coloring as an option,I have two comming with that.I got caught at a weak moment.HI HI.And the service if you break it is lifetime, and IT CANT BE BEAT...
Then there is C Sharp,they start at  about 1136 for there 1875 modle.

[Cottonwood]

Lead Pot

This is a cup base bullet with a .451" diamiter and believe it is straight being a bore riding bullet.  I have all of them loaded right now and can not caliper the whole bullet.  I of course was estatic over the group that these shot.  I am ordering 100 of these right now from Liberty Shooting Supplies

The only reason I have my IAB Sharps is that I aquired it by trading a HK SL-7 .308 cal. rifle for it... I wanted a Sharps that bad, and didn't care what make it was.  This being my enterance Sharps rifle and hunting rifle.

As a good friend told me, if I go into the woods and scratch my IAB Sharps I won't shed a tear... but if I go into the woods and damage a Shiloh I would ball like a baby.

Yes, my goal is to purchase a Shiloh #1 Sporter with a heavy octagon in either 32" or 34" barrel in either the 45-90 or 45-110.

[445supermag]

The shotgun news has the arm sport,s starting at 500$ whole salenow if your dealer adds 75-100 thats 600$ It,s a lot cheaper than the others to start with.

[cam0063]

As my own opinion, I would take the Shiloh hands down over the other brands of Sharps 74s! However at approx $5000+ for a standard No3 or No1 Sporter landed here in Australia [Pedersoli & Armi Sport start at $1500 retail opn the shelf here], if you can get thru all the dramas of Importing as a private individual, it is just too expensive for me. Then Dies, Cases Moulds, Sights etc, etc on top of that, most of which have to be imported from the U.S! This is one reason our distibutor here stopped importing U.S made Sharps rifles... The quality is outstanding but it is the cost to land them here! We lost a lot of rifles here in our last gun confiscation, another one to come in June, though that will mainly be handguns. The next crazy that goes out on a killing spree may cost us much more!

Ranching and drought help tax the budget some, so not an option for me right now... One day I hope to own a Shiloh, Ballard, Hepburn etc, for now I will make do with the path I have chosen to build a rifle, which for me is a one I am happy with. People got to start somewhere! Without the Italians making good usable Sharps repros, I am sure you would have less shooters starting in the sport...

cheers,

Cam......

[Roy Cobb]

Oddly recently when I bought my Pedersoli Sharps it came with a video which calls the company Pedersoli/Armi Sport, Inte5rsting sidebar to this thread I think, anyhow Cimmaron also lists the rifles from Armisport as well as Pedersoli and in the same models.

[JCP]

JUST BOUGHT AN ARMI SPORT  SHARPS A WEEK AGO. I SHOOT SMOKLESS POWDER WITH 350 GR. AND 405 GR. REMS. THE LARGEST THREE SHOT GROUPE AT 50 YDS. SO FAR IS 3/4" WITH MOST BEING ABOUT 1/2" IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE FUSSY ABOUT WHAT I SHOOT IT. I'M NOT A TARGET SHOOTER BUT THIS LOOKS LIKE IT'S GOING TO BE THE MOST ACCURATE RIFLE I HAVE                     . I CAN'T CAMPARE WITH OTHER SHARPS REPLICAS BECAUSE I HAVEN'T SHOT ONE OF THEM BUT WHEN YOU SHOOT THIS ONE IT MAKES YOU STOP AND SMILE FOR A MINUTE OR SO. RIGHT NOW I'M SHOOTING THE STARTING LOAD FOR A 1895 MARLIN IN THE HODGDON MANUL WHICH IS 46 GRS. H4198 WITH A 405 GRAIN REM. AT 1854 FT.PER SEC. AT 29,500 PSI CHAMBER PRESSURE. DON'T KNOW WHAT THE GUN IS RATED AT AND DON'T PLAN ON GOING ANY HOTTER UNTIL I KNOW MORE ABOUT THE GUNS STRENGTH AND CHRONY THE LOAD. HOPE THIS HELPS

[detritus]

Oddly recently when I bought my Pedersoli Sharps it came with a video which calls the company Pedersoli/Armi Sport, Inte5rsting sidebar to this thread I think

maybe it's a recent merger?  or maybe Armi-sport is PEDERSOLI'S economy line..  who knows? the things may even be the same guns with different finish grades ~shrug~   we've seen it happen.  shoot in teh bolt actio world FN Herstal has a new "sharp shooter" rifle that's nothing more than a slightly dressed up Win. M-70 with the price tag inflated b/c if has "FN" on it...  :roll:

if pedersoli and Armi-sport are related, or even teh same folks/factory(ies) then that lends even stronger support to my getting the Armi-sport for the economy of it to get me started.    have to think on this  

[Chaz]

I have a 45-90 in Taylors arms, I'll be shooting at shippensberg next month hopefully. I was there this month watching, first match I was ever at . Can't wait! Dusty Ed I may have talked to you there.

[Dusty Ed]

Howdy Chaz
I'll be looking for you there.
 I drive a Dodge Ram 1500 might have white pop up tent behind it.
Where do you shoot near Dallas?

I belong to North Mountain sportsman club At Rt. 220 +Rt. 42.
                       See you at Shippensburg
                            Dusty Ed :wink:

[Chaz]

Dusty,
We pnly have a small 100Yd. range close to me. However a freind of mine has 200 Yds. at his place. I'm waiting on sights to come from Parts Uknown, when they get here I'll be going to a range up in hazelton with the guy thats going to spot for me. One more shoot and he'll be hooked also. Looking foward to meet you at Shippensberg.
Chaz

[Dusty Ed]

Howdy Chaz
There is a public range on Rt93 on top of Broad Mountain they go out to 300yds.
There is a fellow i shoot cowboy action with and single shot match down at
Guthville he lives on Harvey's lake they call him the Greek.
Where in Hazleton are you going to shoot?
              Dusty Ed :wink:

[Chaz]

Hi Dusty,
I don't have the slightest idea where this range is in Hazelton. The fella I'm going there with said they use to go up and shoot 100, 200, and 300 yds and it wasn't very crowded. So i'mgoing along for the ride if my sights ever get here 2 months and waiting. I'm pretty anxious to get out and shoot 200 and 300 yards, Maybe when I get my sights we'll be able to get together and do some shooting, get some pointers off you guy's that been shooting for a while. I only have about twenty rounds under my belt so far.chaz

[Chaz]

Dusty Ed,
By the way Harvey's Lake is only about 5 miles from my house, I'm actually in the Lehman Area. I'm not sure I know anyone by the name The Greek but I may know him if I see him. Bet he goes to the same gun shop(Matt's). It's not to far from the lake. chaz

[J.W.Neely]

FWIW, I have been shooting a Armi-Taylor for on 3 years, with the Parts Unknown sights.
The gun shoots great, it likes unsized Lyman postells and 65grs of ffg.
It will gong the gongs out to 700 yards just fine, of course it doesn’t have the class of my Shiloh, but cost far less , heck, the sights on my Shiloh cost more than the Taylor cost ( less sights).
So my 2 cents worth is a thumbs up for Taylor.

[Florida Jim]

I have a Pedersoli Sharps in 40-65 that I bought about eight years ago from Dixie. I put MVA sights on it. I load 65 grs of Goex ctg compressed .470" with a RCBS 400 gr BPS bullet cast from wheel weights, lubed with SPG. 016" fiber wad, federal 215 primers. the bullet rides right in the bore. It took me a while to figure out this black powder stuff. But now this rifle shoots about 4 inches at 300 yds. and will hit a five gallon paint can lid laying on the berm about three out of five times at 550 yds. I extremely pleased with the quality of this rifle.it shoots better than my old eyes. I've probably shot close to a thousand rounds through it. I would like to shoot a match with it, but Sunday matches interfere with church.

My friend Just bought a "Pedritti" It looks ok, but when we tried to shoot it at 100yds with the stock sights, we couldn't get on paper. The "Buckhorn" position was way too low, and when flipped to the "ladder" position the lowest setting was way too high. I know everybody puts tang sight on them, but it kind of makes quality suspect. Also the fit of the breach block is a lot looser than my Pedersoli.

I would recomend spending a little more and getting the Pedersoli. Saying that, some day I'm going to get a shilo.

Jim

[Dusty Ed]

Howdy Chaz
I was looking for you at Shippensburg, i couldn't find you there.
It started out pretty crappy but as the day wore on it got some what better
There was a light wind blowing down range and it carried the smoke with
it and it was already hazey it made seeing the targets very hard.
           Well Take Care
                Dusty Ed :wink:

[Chaz]

Dusty ed,
I made the Shippensberg shoot, for my first shoot it was tough to see the targets. I never shot over 200 yards so I had no idea of sight settings. But now all that is straightened out and I'm looking forward to May 17. I only got 8 targets but figured out some things with shooting.Chaz