Author Topic: Blue Dot 223 loads (Read 1701 times)

dw06 · « **on:** February 27, 2007, 09:10:55 AM »

Hi all,got to do some shooting today,shot reduced loads in 223 handi using Blue Dot powder.Must say I am impressed so far.Started at 50 yards with 8grs to 11grs using 50gr v-max and 50gr hornady spsx.Both started shooting great at 10 grs.Also found out the 50gr spsx shoots just as good in my handi as the v-maxs with 24.5gr of imr 3031.Results are below.

10grs blue dot .35 for 3 shots with either bullet

10.4grs blue dot .40

10.8grs,.35 with 50gr spsx

11grs .45 with 50gr spsx

11.2grs .35 with 50gr spsx

Tried the 10gr load at 100 yards and three shots were .60 and hit about 7 -8 inches below the high power load.I was looking for a reduced load for paper punching at 50 yards and small game and blue jays at short range.With practice I can learn the holdover for a shot at 50-75 easy.Also the 10gr load shot through a 4x4 post and half inch plywood behind it,so think I will keep a few loaded up for carrying with me for plinking when a full power load isnt needed.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** February 27, 2007, 09:24:19 AM »

Here's some more low velocity data to work with..

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/addata.htm

dw06 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 27, 2007, 09:59:31 AM »

Thanks Quick,checked it out and saw some using lil gun powder which I have some of and have looking for data for reduced loads for.

myarmor · « **Reply #3 on:** February 27, 2007, 10:50:05 AM »

Those reduced loads using BlueDot are a lot of fun and accurate too. And it works good for hotter loads as well.
I put a cheap Mil-Dot Tasco World Class on one of my 223's and found it really helps with the hold over using the reduced loads. It really makes the 223 shine in versitility.

Thanks again for the load data you sent me awhile back. It helped out a ton.

-Aaron

dw06 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 27, 2007, 11:33:17 AM »

Thats what I need,a scope with mil-dots!Got lucky and the drop is right in line so no left to right to worry about.Also with scope set on 4 power,they hit right where the duplex gets thick at 100 yards so I can use that for awhile.
Sure is fun playing around with,and makes 223 into a hornet to boot.Glad the info helped ya myarmor,be sure and checkout the link on Quicks post too.

knight0334 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 27, 2007, 02:15:46 PM »

I'm glad this topic was brought up... I've got several cans of BlueDot to use up.

Paul5388 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 27, 2007, 04:20:25 PM »

I thought I had clocked some .223 loaded with Blue Dot, but all I found was 6.5 gr of BD with 46 Win JHP in a Hornet at 2270 fps, which makes a good .22 Mag substitute.

Here's a 100 yard group shot with 12.0 gr of Blue Dot in .223.

myarmor · « **Reply #7 on:** February 27, 2007, 04:22:44 PM »

I was curious about BlueDot in a Hornet.
Is 6.5gr about all a little Hornet case can hold of it?

Paul5388 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 27, 2007, 05:16:17 PM »

No, that isn't all it will hold, but it probably shouldn't be loaded too much more than that 40-50% density.

The "formula" I normally use is to fill a case full to the case mouth with Blue Dot and strike it off level. Weigh that amount of powder and calculate 40% of that total weigh. That's usually a pretty good starting place and then work up or down to find the best place for accuracy. You more than likely will never get over 60% density due to pressure problems.

It's reduced loads, but that doesn't mean the pressure is reduced all that much. So, always be careful with how much you increase from that 40% point.

I never use fillers or magnum primers. I shoot a lot of BD loads, from Hornet to .45-70 and many in between.

aulrich · « **Reply #9 on:** February 28, 2007, 07:55:18 AM »

I have tried it too in 243 and 338wm a guy on accuratereloading had done a fair bit of experimenting the 308 based cases worked really well by his reports, the 30-06 based not so well. When I tried the 243 did work very well. I had tried some downloaded loads with H4895 but the accuracy was terrible. When I tried with my 338, it did not work so well, but I did not start low enough when I switched heads and I ended up pircing a primer and I stopped there.

I have not tried it with my 204 yet I would like to have a 22mag type load for those times when you anchor a coyote but it is not dead, the sort of job a 22 pistol would be great for but we won't go there.

It bears repeating these are not low presure loads use with caution

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** February 28, 2007, 08:05:35 AM »

Hodgdon has reduced load data using H4895 is several calibers...

Tim

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/youth/index.php

Quote

For all cartridges we chose H4895 because it is the slowest burning propellant that ignites uniformly at reduced charges. For years, H4895 has been the top choice by cast bullet shooters. For this type shooting, loads are reduced even more than the hunting loads listed herein. To create loads of this type for target and plinking, we recommend our 60% rule with H4895. By taking the maximum charges listed in our Annual Manual with any given cartridge and multiplying it by 60%, the shooter can create a 1500 to 2100 fps load, depending on the bullet weight shown. This works only where H4895 is listed. Do not use H4895 in a cartridge where it has not been shown.

Call Hodgdon Powder Company if additional information is needed. Loads may be adjusted up or down to achieve best accuracy. Do not reduce by more than an additional 10%.

Paul5388 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 28, 2007, 08:16:17 AM »

I suppose you're referring to Seafire on the AR forum? He's the origin of my interest in BD loads and where I got the "formula".

Here's a 100 yard .30-06 group shot with BD.

I shot it out of a 2 groove 03-A3, so it certainly wasn't a target quality gun. The .30-06 and related cartridges have done well with BD in all of the loads I have tried.

aulrich · « **Reply #12 on:** February 28, 2007, 04:36:59 PM »

Thats the guy,

I really need to try the 338 loads again, 50 practice loads for under $20 can't go wrong.

Paul5388 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 28, 2007, 06:17:07 PM »

Aulrich,

All of the loads I have used have given me 1 1/2" or better groups at 100 yards. 27.5 gr with a 140 gr Rem Core-Lokt in the 7mm Mag will shoot less than 1" at 100 yards and thats using a cheap bullet. According to Lee 2nd Edition, the .338 Win Mag has 5.07 cc of usable case capacity abnd the 7mm Mag has 5.27 cc. Probably if you dropped down to about 25.0-26.0 gr and started there, it might work real nicely.

RugerNo3 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 01, 2007, 06:13:40 AM »

Quote from: Paul5388 on February 27, 2007, 04:20:25 PM

I thought I had clocked some .223 loaded with Blue Dot, but all I found was 6.5 gr of BD with 46 Win JHP in a Hornet at 2270 fps, which makes a good .22 Mag substitute.

Here's a 100 yard group shot with 12.0 gr of Blue Dot in .223.

That 12gr of Bluedot behind a 55gr bullet is a max load. Pressures are near 50,000psi in a 223.
These Bluedot loads can be quite dangerous as pressure at this point rises quickly. They are not really a reduced power load, just an economical load. They really should be used with a chronograph during load development. I have no dog in the fight, but be safe.

Paul5388 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 01, 2007, 06:32:26 AM »

I don't think I have ever seen where anyone with actual pressure testing equipment has tested the pressure on these. I'm kinda wondering where the 50,000 psi number came from.

I did find this 55 gr FMJ load on the Alliant page, but no Blue Dot loads.
Fed. 2.215" OAL 24 " Fed. 205M 2400 14.0 gr 2,685 fps 49,900 psi

aulrich · « **Reply #16 on:** March 01, 2007, 06:46:22 AM »

Don't programs like Quick load give an estimated pressure.

Speaking of pressures "in my old "pet loads" book, the author talks alot about measuring pressures with case head expansion. It seems that method has dropped away from use any reason why?

Paul5388 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 01, 2007, 07:53:06 AM »

The reason it isn't used too much anymore is because it doesn't really give an accurate indication of pressure.

From what I've seen of the process of pressure testing, it's all just an educated guess. Regardless of what the pressure barrel results are, your barrel isn't the same and the pressures may not be any where close to what the test barrel got. This is due to manufacturing tolerances producing different chambers that are still within specification.

Strain gauges are a guess also, since there isn't any way to calibrate with a known pressure standard. There also isn't any way to know what the "stretch" characteristics are of your barrel material.

This is the reason the reloading manuals are just a guide that will produce safe loads under normal circumstances. There is no guarantee even the beginning loads are safe in your unique barrel/chamber due to headspacing issues and other factors.

PA-Joe · « **Reply #18 on:** March 01, 2007, 08:57:10 AM »

There are some more of these gopher loads on the james calhoon webpage.

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/

Paul5388 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 01, 2007, 11:02:43 AM »

I just talked with a technical representative of Alliant Powders and presented a few questions on the use of Blue Dot.

As most have heard, there is an issue with increased pressure with Blue Dot at low temperatures. My question was, at what temperature does that become a problem and how much of a problem is it. The answer I received was that even at maximum published loads, the pressure will never exceed SAAMI specifications and that situation only exists when the temperature reaches the "frigid" point, meaning below freezing and probably closer to 0 degrees F or less.

When I asked about reduced loads, i.e. youth or reduced recoil loads, I was told there hasn't been any "offical" work that has been done in that area and that it isn't in the plans at this point in time. When I mentioned the "formula" I use, it was the first they had heard of any sort of system for determining "safe" load densities. They were aware of people using Blue Dot in .223, but evidently no one has asked about any other chamberings.

I mentioned this thread, so maybe it will spur them to do a little official testing and reporting on safe reduced load uses for Blue Dot.