Author Topic: Hot 25-06 or .257 Weatherby?! (Read 3063 times)

smokin_d · « **on:** January 29, 2007, 08:10:13 PM »

I'm looking at buying a predator rifle, and I need to decide whether handloading a 25-06 would get me the same results a .257 would? I found a nice savage 112 and I'm itchin' to spend the cash! Any help would be appreciated.. Thx..

wink_man · « **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2007, 04:35:35 AM »

While I own a .257 Weatherby, and am a very big fan of the cartridge, for me, it is a big game round, and from a predator rifle standpoint I'd choose the 25-06, given a choice. With a 26 inch barrel, the .257 Wby will launch the heaviest bullets in .257 caliber faster than a lot of cartridges can launch their lightest bullets, and thats what I like about it. You won't be able to load the 25-06 as hot even reloading, but again, it's a moot point, you can only kill an animal so dead, and the 25-06 is definitely a fast and flat shooting caliber. The reason I say the 25-06 in deference to the .257 Wby for preadtors, is cost. You'll certainly be taking many more shots at predators than you would at big game, and if you look at the price of ammo, and even the price of .257 Wby brass from a reloading standpoint, the 25-06 is going to win hands down. It also takes a LOT of additional powder to launch those bullets just that little bit faster in the .257 Wby. Just my personal thought and opinions.
Garry

Ahab · « **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2007, 05:36:02 AM »

Quote from: wink_man on January 30, 2007, 04:35:35 AM

While I own a .257 Weatherby, and am a very big fan of the cartridge, for me, it is a big game round, and from a predator rifle standpoint I'd choose the 25-06, given a choice. With a 26 inch barrel, the .257 Wby will launch the heaviest bullets in .257 caliber faster than a lot of cartridges can launch their lightest bullets, and thats what I like about it. You won't be able to load the 25-06 as hot even reloading, but again, it's a moot point, you can only kill an animal so dead, and the 25-06 is definitely a fast and flat shooting caliber. The reason I say the 25-06 in deference to the .257 Wby for preadtors, is cost. You'll certainly be taking many more shots at predators than you would at big game, and if you look at the price of ammo, and even the price of .257 Wby brass from a reloading standpoint, the 25-06 is going to win hands down. It also takes a LOT of additional powder to launch those bullets just that little bit faster in the .257 Wby. Just mypersonal thought and opinions.
Garry
[/quote
Yah, but for a little more cost you can have a whole lot more fun.

The Sodbuster · « **Reply #3 on:** January 30, 2007, 01:55:33 PM »

I've got both. I've owned the .257 Weatherby about 4 or 5 years and the .25-06 one year. That Weatherby is a sweet rifle, but I've probably put more ammo through the .25-06. It's cheaper to shoot and recoils less. I get brass for the .25-06 from .30-06 cases I pick up for free. Weatherby brass costs about $1 per case. If you don't reload, the Weatherby costs even more to shoot. Dont' get me wrong, I love that Weatherby Mark V and the .257 is a great round, but the .25-06 will do anything the .257 Weatherby can, just maybe a fraction of a second slower.

Of course, if you just have to have the flattest shooting quarter-bore out there, consider the .257 Shooting Times Western

nomosendero · « **Reply #4 on:** January 30, 2007, 04:34:57 PM »

The bad boy these days in 25 is the 257Allen Mag., which uses the 338RUM case. To utilize this case
you must use a 1-8 twist & bullets or 130 gr, with the 156gr Wildcat being the best long range 25cal slug, that's right 156gr!!!! This a a VERY specialized round.

But back to the 25-06 vs 257 Wea. you are looking at about 200-250 fps diff. if both have a 26" tube & both are loaded warm, but safe.
The 25-06 uses alot less powder, has less blast & the brass is easier to work with & cheaper. I like both of them alot.

My decision was to Ackley Improve my 26" Sendero. Now I have the best qualities of both rounds in my view. The velocity is closer to the Wea, within 100fps with about any bullet & often within 75fps,
which is too close to see a diff. in the field of any consequence. As a serious reloader, for me it was the best way to go.

STL Cardinal Fan · « **Reply #5 on:** January 30, 2007, 04:48:29 PM »

Hands down, I would buy the 25-06.

One, the cost of shooting and or reloading it is a lot cheaper.

Two, the 25-06 can kill big game like moose or caribou just as a 257 could or would. SOme folks may say the round is too light for Moose or Caribou, but I will disagree. First and foremost, shot placement is the key to any shot being made and if a hunter gets a "kill shot" with a 25-06, the animal will die. A good bullet, (Barnes, Nosler, etc 120 grain) and a good shot means meat on the table......

Laslty, if you can not decide on what caliber to buy, buy two guns, one in each caliber......I mena that is whats fun about guns......one can never have enough......

wink_man · « **Reply #6 on:** January 31, 2007, 06:23:39 AM »

Smokin_d, if you do decide to go the .257 Weatherby route and you do reload, here's a tip that can save you a considerable amount of money on brass. Remington used to manufacture 7MM Weatherby brass, Federal still does and there is quite a price difference between ANYONES brass and Weatherby brand brass. 7MM Weatherby brass is dimensionally identical to 270 WBY and .257 Wby brass except for the neck. One trip through the .257 Wby sizer die and 7MM Wby brass makes excellent .257 Wby brass.

jro45 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 09, 2007, 10:04:28 AM »

The 257 WBY is good for Deer and ground hogs. You might even take a bear with it with a heart shot

Lone Star · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2007, 02:46:40 PM »

The .257 Weatherby with a 120-grain Partition is very close in performance to a .270 Winchester with a 130-grain Partition. What one will do the other will do. Take a bear only with a "heart shot"? You've never shot a bear I guess.....they aren't bullet proof.

IMO a .25-06AI will not get within 75 fps of a typical Weatherby with sane pressures in the same barrel lengths. Simple physics - the Ackleys are not magic, and most will give ca. 100 fps or less above the parent round at the same safe pressures (check the Nosler Manual). Sure you can overload an AI and get faster velocities. I have chronographed 3800+ fps with 100-gerain BTips in my .257 AccuMark - which is far faster than any .25-06AI will deliver. But that load is way too hot even though cases extract easily, and I 'get by' with 3600 fps just fine at tested-safe pressures. In reality a standard .25-06 would work fine for all my shooting, but I like the big Weatherby and have two....

.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #9 on:** February 11, 2007, 03:38:12 AM »

My .257 Roberts, using +P data and 75g V-MAX bullets, has taken coyotes out past 480 yards. I'd go with a .25-06 for a number of reasons.

Ahab · « **Reply #10 on:** February 11, 2007, 11:55:52 AM »

Quote from: Lone Star on February 10, 2007, 02:46:40 PM

The .257 Weatherby with a 120-grain Partition is very close in performance to a .270 Winchester with a 130-grain Partition. What one will do the other will do. Take a bear only with a "heart shot"? You've never shot a bear I guess.....they aren't bullet proof.

IMO a .25-06AI will not get within 75 fps of a typical Weatherby with sane pressures in the same barrel lengths. Simple physics - the Ackleys are not magic, and most will give ca. 100 fps or less above the parent round at the same safe pressures (check the Nosler Manual). Sure you can overload an AI and get faster velocities. I have chronographed 3800+ fps with 100-gerain BTips in my .257 AccuMark - which is far faster than any .25-06AI will deliver. But that load is way too hot even though cases extract easily, and I 'get by' with 3600 fps just fine at tested-safe pressures. In reality a standard .25-06 would work fine for all my shooting, but I like the big Weatherby and have two....
You summed it up real good Lonestar. I feel the same way but I only have one.

nomosendero · « **Reply #11 on:** February 11, 2007, 07:40:11 PM »

Lone Star, like you said, IMO ! I would say you are entitled to that, but I have my chrono results & that trumps opinions, sorry!!
And a few facts sprinkled in, instead of opinions, as noted below.

It could be that my loads for the 25-06AI are a little warm, just as your loads are 200 feet over Wea. factory & are by your admission
quite hot. And I have mentioned in the past how I have received those velocities with properly set up 25-06'sAI, that being 26" barrels &&&& LONG THROATED MODEL 700 long actions, I am sorry I didn't again. And I said 100FPS, SOMETIMES 75, depending on individual guns & loads. Did I take into account a 257 getting 3,800, no because that is not the norm. You say 3,600 is safe for your Wea. & I say 3,500+ is safe in my AI, no problem.

I like manuals too, let's look.
Manuals are good guidelines. Both the Sierra & Horn. shows 3,500 fps for the Wea., but I know 3,600 is safe, so I would not consider a source or 2 as gospel on Wea. or AI data. What's really funny is the Speer number 13, they show the std 25-06 with 3,298fps with a 24" tube & the Wea. with 3,370, again with a 24" tube for a diff. of 72fps. To me that is silly, again I agree with you that 3,600 is more like it, at least in 26". Barnes #2 shows 3,302fps for the 25-06 & 3,484 for the Wea, both with 24".
The Nosler #4shows the 25-06 with a 24" tube to max out at 3,353 & the 257 Wea. with get this a 26" Lilja to get 3,602 for a spread of 249fps even though the Wea. has 2" more barrel, Hmmm.
Looking at my stack of manuals (all of the majors) we have a spread of 72fps as a low & I found one at just over a 300 foot spread.
The average is about 200fps, just like I said in my post.

You say yourself the AI gives 100feet per second, well that would be right where I said to begin with. And looking at the manuals, my claim is substainuated, even easier than I suspected. When you look at the numbers, no magic is suggested or implied.

One the other extreme, Cart. of the World Number 9 shows 3,646 with the AI, a little fast in my book. Yes, I can get that & a hair more, but it is hot. Actually, the 25-06 has a little more gain than 100fps. Some like the 30-06AI or 35Whelen AI are lucky to gain
100fps. On the other hand the 30-30AI, 257Rob. AI & 250-3000-AI will gain alot more than 100fps, fact. Non AI users use 100fps as a blanket rule, not allways so.

No where has it been stated that the 25-06 will match the Wea., but as it always goes, as you go to a bigger round the gain is there,
but not proportion to the powder increase. The STW is faster than the Wea., giving another big gain, but not a good tradoff in my view considering the HUGE powder increase.

This is what I have experienced, if you have your own 25-06AI that differs, fine. Viewed logically, it is easy for anyone to see how this is achieved, & as I said, the round is too close to mess with the belted brass & inferior & a gun that is harder to achieve target accuracy standards.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #12 on:** February 12, 2007, 06:07:45 AM »

3800+ fps with a 100gr Bal Tip?

?? You'd have to show me that! If you have a 26" barrel, it must have 18" of free bore!!

Seem's we're using manual's here and my Nosler manual say's for the 257 Wea, a max of 3600fps with a 100 gr BT. Your 200 fps over the listed MAX load. In my 6.5x06 I get right around 25 fps ave per 1/2 grain of powder increase. That's off my cronograph, not out of a book. That means for me to get an increase of 200 fps, I'd have to go 4 grs over the max listed loads. I have gone over the max loads. At 2 grs over, the primer's leak and case life is one round. Case head expansion got pretty outrageious. There's a bit of flame cutting around the fireing pin hole also.

doeroller · « **Reply #13 on:** February 12, 2007, 03:23:33 PM »

I have had a good bit of experience with the 25-06 and the 257 Weebee. My top loads with the 25-06 made 3500 with the 100 gr bullets. The 257 will do almost 3700 with the same bullet weight and barrel length in my 2 guns. I think this is a fair comparison. Both of these loads are full throttle in Winchester and Weatherby cases respectively. I say don't own a Corvette and drive it like a Malibu. If you have something that will run, let it run.

nomosendero · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2007, 04:04:41 PM »

Quote from: doeroller on February 12, 2007, 03:23:33 PM

I have had a good bit of experience with the 25-06 and the 257 Weebee. My top loads with the 25-06 made 3500 with the 100 gr bullets. The 257 will do almost 3700 with the same bullet weight and barrel length in my 2 guns. I think this is a fair comparison. Both of these loads are full throttle in Winchester and Weatherby cases respectively. I say don't own a Corvette and drive it like a Malibu. If you have something that will run, let it run.

Indeed! Even though it could be argued that each cart. is about 100fps too high, the 200fps spread is same difference the manuals give between the two rounds. My findings are a little different than the manuals, sometimes more like 250fps, but no biggie.

Lone Star · « **Reply #15 on:** February 12, 2007, 05:03:06 PM »

Quote

3800+ fps with a 100gr Bal Tip??? You'd have to show me that! If you have a 26" barrel, it must have 18" of free bore!!

No, but what it does have is extremely tough brass. PMC made a batch of .257 cases in the late 90s that was incredibly tough and is sought ofter by .257 fans in the know. I have several hundred left, and one time worked up a load using the classic pressure siigns. It took a lot of RL-22 powder, but the bolt finally got a bit sticky - not much mind you - and the primers started to crater, so I stopped. When I chronographed the load it was 3821 fps! Obviously way over the top, just like 3500 fps in a .25-06 is an obvious overload. But using conventional pressure signs like sticky bolt and pressure ring measurements lead me to that excessive load. It pays to stick to published pressure-tested loads.

.

nomosendero · « **Reply #16 on:** February 12, 2007, 05:46:37 PM »

Yes indeed & watching pressure signs yourself. I say that because some guns top out BEFORE published maximum loads & some, esp. custom barrels with chambers cut right, MAYl top out after published maximums.

And yes, a 3,500fps 25-06 load is likely hot & a 257 Wea. load of 3,700 is likely hot as well, much less 3,800 with anyone's brass, it would be a good STW speed thou.

jro45 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 13, 2007, 09:02:29 AM »

Lone Star I shot a 400 lb black bear not with my 257 WBY

kombi1976 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 13, 2007, 04:31:20 PM »

IMO both 25-06 and 257 Wby Mag are big game rounds.
The difference being that 257 Wbys are for the most part more expensive to purchase and feed, although admittedly the Vanguard range come out in 257 Wby.
If you're intending to shoot it alot the 25-06 is a better bet, although to be blunt it can also be very loud and a little offensive to bystanders.
As I've speculated before it's a pity one of the bigger bullet companies has not produced a 140gn pill for 25 cal as it would put it into the same penetration class as 6.5mm.
However then they'd probably need a 1:8 or 1:9 twist to stabilise it.
But I digress.
25-06 is probably a better bet if money is a consideration.

nomosendero · « **Reply #19 on:** February 13, 2007, 05:30:08 PM »

We did get a little off topic, me more than most. Looking at the subject of the thread & the two cartridges mentioned, for predators you would have to lean toward the 25-06, a little big for predators actually, but good at the longer ranges & in windy conditions.
Neither is a volume round & the barrels can get hot fast. The barrel life will be much better with the 25-06 & the amount of powder used & cost of brass is quite different.

smokin_d · « **Reply #20 on:** February 18, 2007, 08:22:45 PM »

$:-\$

Well thanks guys, I think i'm gonna go with the -06! Sounds like the amount i want to shoot this little gun, thats the way to go! Maybe i'll even get my wife shooting it too, as long as the bark isn't too much. I'd hate to give her a good flinch! Thanx again!

kombi1976 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 19, 2007, 02:37:20 AM »

Let us know how your 25-06 shoots, eh?

The Sodbuster · « **Reply #22 on:** February 25, 2007, 05:16:47 AM »

Quote

Remington used to manufacture 7MM Weatherby brass, Federal still does and there is quite a price difference between ANYONES brass and Weatherby brand brass.

WinkMan, what's your source? I've been through Midway USA, Midsouth Shooter's Supply, Cabela's, and Natchez Shooting Supply catalogs and I can't find any 7mm Weatherby brass beyond what Weatherby/Norma manufacture.