Author Topic: OT For Mac and Quick  (Read 736 times)

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Offline handirifle

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OT For Mac and Quick
« on: March 06, 2007, 06:28:44 PM »
I just finished loading up some 338-06 for the savage, sorry not a Handy.  Loaded various levels with three bullets, the Nosler 180gr accubond, the Nosler 210 partition, and the Hornady 225gr SP.  Hopefully I'll get a chance to make it to the range within a week and see what it likes.

I was planning on using this for an alround deer, black bear and elk and moose gun.  Looks like CA fish and game may make a ruling of no lead bullets in the zones I hunt.  It seems studies are showing the CA Condor (endangered) is dying of lead poisoning from gut piles left from hunters.  They've done a lot of studies and chemically matched the lead.  I'm hoping they rule something otherwise but doubtful.

I was really hoping to get to test those Nosler Accubonds on the deer/bear out here.
Their meeting is this month and I guess I'll soon know.

I'll post what velocity and accuracy results are.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: OT For Mac and Quick
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2007, 06:50:53 PM »
I think I'd  be working on some 185gr, 210gr and 225gr TSXs in light of the lead free proposal!! ;)

Tim
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Offline handirifle

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Re: OT For Mac and Quick
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2007, 04:45:18 AM »
Ha! I knew you'd say that.  The MAIN reason I haven't is these are what I had on hand BEFORE the proposal came around.

A local dealer, sold me two boxes of the 210 Part, and 3 boxes of the 225's plus three boxes of flat nosed 338 bullets for (ready for this?) $40.

How could I resist?  All that for the cost of one box of partitions, one of which I might add only had 30 bullets in it instead of 50 >:(, but with the deal I got nothing will be said.  Now if that was the only box I bought that would be another story.

Once I see how well the new barrel does, then I'll invest in the Barnes TSX's.  The 185 and 210's are HIGH on my list of wanting to test.  Especially after reading how well the 185 did on a 300yd elk shot from the 338 Federal.

Barnes recommends the 210 as an alround bullet for deer through moose.  They say on a broadside shoulder shot from the 338-06 I will most likely never recover a bullet, just what it hit.
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: OT For Mac and Quick
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2007, 06:00:15 AM »
I guess if you want to recover a bullet you have  look in the gut piles of bears that are shot ???. I quess there must be hundreds of guys that are gut shooting bears with bullets that stay in the guts for condors to eat ::), someone comes up with these unbelieveable hypothesis and then do whatever they can to prove their theory. I ask you, is it plausible....<><.... ??? ??? ::)
"Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley

Offline Mac11700

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Re: OT For Mac and Quick
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2007, 06:07:41 AM »

I don't know how they can make the argument for going lead free in bullets stick..but then in that communist state anything is possible..I do think they will have to show more than 1 contaminate bird to get it passed state wide though...I am quite sure the bullet manufactures will have their day in court to prove otherwise...

I would still work up your 180 grain Accubond & the 210 Nosler loads..they shoot exceptionally well for me..I will be working up some of the 185 TSX loads this spring to see how they do..but it will be a while till I get a chance to try them...

Keep us posted on the legal developments

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline handirifle

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Re: OT For Mac and Quick
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2007, 08:55:30 AM »
Mac
There's actually been about 12 birds found to die of lead poisoning and about 6 independent tests have been done.  The proposal isn't statewide, it's for the CA Condor ranges only, about 1/3 of the state. 

Whether or not it will stick, I can't say, but their range also goes into AZ and NM so my guess is it WILL flow into there also.  This isn't a CA thing, its Federal due to the Endangered Species Act.  I've done some reasearch and I don't really feel this is an Anti thing, I think they are trying to be as fair to all as possible, and still save those birds.

They were on a good road to coming back very strong till about 8 years ago when they started dying off, and the lead is looking like the main culprit.  There are other ideas as well, one is to require ALL carcasses/entrails shot with lead to be buried before you leave the site, so we'll see.  That means carrying a shovel when hunting ???.  To me it would be easier to go with the Barnes.
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: OT For Mac and Quick
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2007, 09:47:21 AM »
Here is a question, of all the big game animals any of you have harvested over the years how many do you think had the spent lead bullet in the entrials/intestines that wre left in the woods as opposed to the muscle or meat and bone of the animal or that passed completely through the animal? Could those condors have picked up the lead contamination from some other source? Pellets in dead birds or varmints perhaps, contaminated water run off perhaps? This arguement is foolish in it's basis. I see it as just another attack by activists against hunting, shooting, and guns. If they stop hunting with bullets containing lead what is to stop them from next stopping shooting in the same area with bullets containing lead, then stopping using projectiles of any kind because a bird might injest it?....<><.... :)
"Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley

Offline dw06

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Re: OT For Mac and Quick
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2007, 10:51:54 AM »


I was planning on using this for an alround deer, black bear and elk and moose gun.  Looks like CA fish and game may make a ruling of no lead bullets in the zones I hunt.  It seems studies are showing the CA Condor (endangered) is dying of lead poisoning from gut piles left from hunters.  They've done a lot of studies and chemically matched the lead.  I'm hoping they rule something otherwise but doubtful.



I'm not buying it.Lead is in allot more items then bullets.I'd buy MSP Ret theory of contaminated water first.And gee how about wheel weights used to balance all those tires in CA?They do fly off,and most rims in juckyards still have them on.I do beleive that some condor have died from lead poisoning,and bet other birds and animails have too.And could be one they tested did indead injest lead from a bullet.But I'm not buying that they are in trouble from just bullets alone.JMO
If you find yourself in a hole,the first thing to do is stop digging-Will Rogers

Offline handirifle

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Re: OT For Mac and Quick
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2007, 11:28:11 AM »
OK to be clear, I don't make the rules, I didn't run the tests, I did read what the results were, anyone slse is welcome to do so themselves.  Either way if someone thinks they can stop anyof this just keep smokin what you are.  No need to argue with ME over this, but with my limited knowledge of physics and chemestry it seems plausable.

The CA condor has learned to feed from carcasses either road kill or, and especially animals like prarrie dogs.  Consider hundreds of these little critters laying dead after a few guys put them down.

The Condor has been proven to be more suceptable to lead poisoning than many other species, so it actually takes less lead.

If you don't believe the facts as they have been presented, ?????  I was simply stating why I might have to switch ammo.  Feel free to believe in the conspiracy theory if you must, but I've done a lot of reading and I feel it's most likely an honest report.  If you don't, it won't make the world turn any slower for me, F&G, or anyone else.

This is the FIRST time I've seen anything even attempt to alter our hunting here on this level.  They had notices out last year asking to bury remains taken by lead bullets, and this is the next obvious step.

Feel free to cuss, spit and badmouth the F&G anytime you wish, just relaying what is most likely comming down.  Like I said, it's not a CA issue, IT'S A FEDERAL ISSUE since the ESA is a Federal law, and the state has NO CHOICE but to act on it.  AZ and NM look over your shoulder cause it's headed your way.
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Offline dw06

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Re: OT For Mac and Quick
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2007, 01:16:51 PM »
  No need to argue with ME over this, but with my limited knowledge of physics and chemestry it seems plausable.


The Condor has been proven to be more suceptable to lead poisoning than many other species, so it actually takes less lead.

If you don't believe the facts as they have been presented, ?????  I was simply stating why I might have to switch ammo.  Feel free to believe in the conspiracy theory if you must, but I've done a lot of reading and I feel it's most likely an honest report.  If you don't, it won't make the world turn any slower for me, F&G, or anyone else.

This is the FIRST time I've seen anything even attempt to alter our hunting here on this level.  They had notices out last year asking to bury remains taken by lead bullets, and this is the next obvious step.

Feel free to cuss, spit and badmouth the F&G anytime you wish, just relaying what is most likely comming down.  Like I said, it's not a CA issue, IT'S A FEDERAL ISSUE since the ESA is a Federal law, and the state has NO CHOICE but to act on it.  AZ and NM look over your shoulder cause it's headed your way.

I for one am not arguing with you,just stated my feelings.Why is it that if someone disagrees,suddenly they are "smoking" something,or beleive its a conspiracy?I like to think for myself,and just because someone says something,or writes something,don't mean I have to swallow it thats all.As I stated in my post,I beleive condors are dying from lead poisoning,just don't think anyone can blame just bullets ban them and everything will be fine.Too much lead out there for that.
If you find yourself in a hole,the first thing to do is stop digging-Will Rogers

Offline carbineman

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Re: OT For Mac and Quick
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2007, 01:20:38 PM »
 Follow The Money Trail

Don't Let The Truth Get In The Way Of Telling A Good Story!

Offline handirifle

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Re: OT For Mac and Quick
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2007, 02:35:04 PM »
Sorry if I snapped, hard day at work.  If you guys can read up on the subect you can see where they have tested the different "chemical signatures" of various leads.  Aparantly each type of lead, ie. wheel weights, bullets (jacketed ones) and industrail leads all have different chemical makeups.

Of course this could not account for all type of bullets, especially for those that cast their own, but the signatures matched a large number of those found in a large diverse number of manufactured bullets.  I do not think the F&G commission was taking it lying down.  They have held them off for several years, and ar at least holding "meetings" with the public to discuss the issue and determine the solutions.

As for the conspiricy ideas, I do not believe "they" are always out to take our priveledges away, I do believe there are still many that DO care and try to make the bset of a bad situation.  The CA F&G does a LOT here to promote hunting, especially among the youth, such as a large number of FREE (to kids 12-16) pheasant hunts, that are supplied with good bird dogs and handlers, and many youth hunts throughout the state.  I really do not feel they would spend the money they do, if they didn't care.

To many (including me sometimes) CA may seems like a commie state, but it really does have a lot of strong points for hunters.
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Offline dw06

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Re: OT For Mac and Quick
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2007, 11:02:53 PM »
Well handirifle,the main thing is I hope everything works out for you and all hunters involved.Hey like some have said start working up loads using TXSs,many swear by them.Good luck to you.
If you find yourself in a hole,the first thing to do is stop digging-Will Rogers

Offline Guy Pike

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Re: OT For Mac and Quick
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2007, 01:21:34 AM »
Interesting. I have been involved in the design and building of waste water treatment plants and there are limits on the amount of copper that can be discharged as well as lead. Who knows where this may lead and how scary can it get?
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