erratic groups with .243 handi

[Hank McMauser]

     Went to the range today with my handi and some other rifles(22's)  my handis with reloads:win brass neck sized in lee  collet die,winchester primers,37 gr. varget and 80 gr. rem. bullets it would print one dead center then the next one would go 4-5 inches low then the third would go within 3/4" of the first one,it was very disturbing,I'm thinking the scope (leupold rifleman3-9x40)or it's mounts(burris w/adj windage) may need some attention,going to check soon.
     Is it possible the groups are actually this big and it's not the mounts or the scope or me?
     I dont think it's me,on a good day I can usually hit clay pigeons resting on the berm at 300 M with my savage .270 with few missing usually less than an inch away,
Hank

[trotterlg]

If you shoot a Savage then you are spoiled.  The groups you got with your .243 Handi are typical, not desired but typical of a .243.  There are lots of fixes, some of them most likely involving chants and dead chickens, but the end lesson is that Handi's are just fickel, some shoot and some never will. Hope you can find a fix for yours.   Larry

[Hank McMauser]

   If thats the case,and it's not the scope or mounts this one will go on down the road,I can get a243 bbl for my savage for about $75  or p/u a stevens for about $300
Hank

[stimpylu32]

( it would print one dead center then the next one would go 4-5 inches low then the third would go within 3/4" of the first one,it was very disturbing, )

Hank

Even the worst handi that i have ever shot would not do that , i could see it being the rifle if the shots were moving out with every shot but not out and back . something else is happening here , i would check the mounts and the scope , also check the lock-up on the rifle . My 243 superlite which is the worst 243 that H&R makes will not even do that .

stimpy

[georgeld]

About the time you give up.

Swap another scope onto this gun and double check it.  Make sure the scope
you put on is known to be good. Say take it off something that groups tight.

The past five yrs I've had four scopes either go bad, or come that way.

The first one was my first scope that never gave problems. Had that K4 since 1958 and
it refused to group under a foot. Checked everything several times. When I called for help
the other guy found the same problem and put another scope on. Sure enough, it shot
tight groups again.

Bought a new scope and dam'd if he didn't mash the tube on it!!  Then moved to another state before I discovered it of course.

No matter how good a brand, or how need a scope is. Don't mean it's 'good'.
But, you've got a number of things to check out first.

Good luck and we'd be interested in knowing what you found as the problem.

George

[Hank McMauser]

   yeah,I guess i'm being brash,
I'm a little dis-heartened ,after we went to the range we took the long way home and went looking for ground squirrels and was hoping I'd be able to bag one with the handi.with the way it was acting up it stayed in the truck.My FIL was kind enough to let me use his marlin17hmr and got a couple with it! 
  My daughter was with us she had a blast,she used her ruger 10/22 and was firing multiple rounds at each squirrel.While at the range she was hitting shotgun hulls and golf balls at 50yds.
   We were using our tahoe as a shooting platform, my fil was using the hood w/his22-250 I was standing on the rear bumper using the roof and Sarah sat in the passenger seat.we were facing a hill on our right side and bagged a few before moving on it was great fun
i

[Bob_VT]

Was it recently cleaned? Some handi's are trashed after the cleaning and require almost 10 fouling shots.  How positive are you of the reloads?  Have you shot better groups in the past?     

[Ditchdigger]

Nearly all my Handi's will do this at some point or time,they shoot patterns instead of groups.I've tried everything including changing as many as 6 different scopes on it.I just put it in the closet for a couple of months,and most of the time it'll shoot good again.If it sounds like I'm trashing the Handi,well I'm not because my Handi's get carreid more than any rifles I have,and I hunt at least 5 day's a week all year for wild hogs.The first time I miss a hog,the Handi gets parked and another Handi takes its place.
These things can drive you crazy sometimes,but they are fun to hunt with,and to a point,tinker with so don't give up on them.I have several bolt guns that havn't missed a hog in 10 yrs. of hunting and are always on zero,but like I said the Handi's are more fun.  Digger

[Trapper-Jack]

Two things helped my 243 that was doing about the same thing.  I was trying to use IMR-4064 with 85 grain bullets.  I was getting good groups with 65 grainers with it but it didn't group at all with the heavier bullets.  I switched to IMR-4350, slower burn rate, and it did quite a bit better.  The other thing that helped was in the beginniing I was trying to partially full length resize the cases, trying to keep as close to a fire formed case as possible.  In doing so I wasn't getting a consistant lock up with every shot.  I had better results when I full length resized to the point that I felt the action close without any drag of the case being cammed into the chamber with the closing action.  These are a couple of things that seemed to help my handi 243.  Your results may vary, but it's something to think about.

[Spanky]

Check and re-check the scope and mounts, make sure the latch shelf is dry, fire a few rounds to foul the barrel then try some factory ammo. and see how it shoots.

[243tom]

Hank , I feel your frustration, my Ultra 243 was the same way, especially with most factory ammo. I finally settled on a reload of 87gr Hornady bullets and H4350 a 39.8gr lighter load in the book, and a long 2.75 col. And it will now print any of the 3 bullet styles into a inch and a half group. With the vmaxes sometimes touching each other!!
The trigger pull means a LOT also !! I used the easy method I read about here, by pressing the hammer forward while pulling the trigger,,using a snap cap of course. And I also put a little powdered graphite into the opening on the underside.......that really made it light,, almost toooo light, but it will wear off at some point.
All the other suggestions from the guys are very helpful also.  The chicken bone/voodoo one did'nt work for me though. Don't give up just yet.

[MnMike]

My .243 was the same. Two different groups 3-4" apart. I tried many of the things that are mentioned in the FAQ and still had problems. Things would get better then worse. Lately they are getting better. Someone wrote that a Handi needs a lot of bullets through the bore before it settles in. Mine seems to be settling in after 125 rounds, or I am figuring out how to shoot it.  I now get 3-4 shots out of 5 within less than an inch and 1-2 low.

Some thoughts that may be helpful:

If you are on a bench, rest it near the hinge
If you reload, note that Handis have long throats, seat the bullets out a ways
Close it FIRMLY every time
Keep your hands off the forend
Shoot a lot

good luck,

mike

[henry1]

I have had the same problem with my .223 handi and when it starts to string shots like that i usualy stop shooting caus then your just burning ammo due to frusteration. I clean it up, run a bore snake through a few 2-3 times with some good solvent. use a cleaning rod after that with a solvent-damp patch. it dosent do this to me so much anymore. the thing that made the most difference was the way i was shooting, sqeeze, not pull. and changing my loads up a lil bit. hope this might help.

[aulrich]

Two things that jump to mind for me are
1. lock-up if that is inconsistant or loose then you will get vertical dispersion. (FAQ has the procedure to check lock-up)
2. Inconsistant follow through on the trigger, if you don't follow through on the trigger the trasfer bar can fall out of place slightly causing variations in ingnition.

You might want to consider some full lenght dies neck sizing and a handi is a hit and miss sort of thing sometimes it works some times it does not, personally neck sizing has not worked for any handi's I have owned.


And i'll ech the advise of watching the shooting rest position make sure it is consistant mine have like shooting supported at the hindge pin.

[Hank McMauser]

  We made it out again loaded up some more loads with everything the same,I swapped scopes around,put a cheap $29.00 tasco on the .243 and she shoots fine now , we moved the leupold over to a savage 9317fv it seems fine on it although very few rounds fired by me, (it's my f.i.l.'s rifle)  we shot several whistle pigs I got two  w/the .243 and fil got several w/the .17hmr(that round is awesome)  I think I'm going to keep the handi after all
Hank