Author Topic: cimarron-uberti verses uberti 1858 Remingtpn (Read 3735 times)

Rickk · « **on:** February 13, 2007, 01:57:19 PM »

Anyone know what would be different between a "regular" Uberti 1858 Remingon revolver and a "Cimarron-Uberti"?

Uberti's web site says the Uberti barrel length is 8 inches. Cimarron's web site says their's is 7 1/2 inches. Are the barrels really different?

Are there any other differences?

Rick

Flint · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2007, 06:14:37 PM »

If you click on the 1858 page under "Specifications" you will see the Army has an 8 inch barrel. The picture with the caption 1858 Army 7-1/2 inch is a typo.

The Navy 36 caliber has a 7-1/2 inch barrel.

I have generally never seen any substantial difference between a Cimarron and an Uberti besides the text on the barrel. The Cimarrons come in an Uberti box, though I have seen "Cimarron" boxes..

Rickk · « **Reply #2 on:** February 14, 2007, 05:06:15 AM »

Yup, I did that and saw exactly what you said I would.... 8 inches in the spec... the 7.5 inches in the description appears to be incorrect.

I had also e-mailed Cimarron about it, and also asked what else whould be different. I had heard that they required a higher level of quality control for guns sold under their name, but I don't recall where I heard that. It may just be a rumor.

It should be interesting to see what they have to say. I'll post if if/when they reply.

Flint · « **Reply #3 on:** February 14, 2007, 10:51:06 AM »

Whether or not Cimarron gets a higher level of finish has to be viewed in the light of Taylors marketing the new Forged frame 1858. Up until now all Uberti's frames have been cast. The Cowboy Chronicle article remarks that they are "exceptionally nicely done. The deep blue-black finish is smooth and much nicer than the Pietta 1858s. It has perfect metal to metal fit."

Though I always considered the Uberti finish better than Pietta to begin with, I'd have to see the forged frame one to compare it to the cast frame Uberti Remingtons.

Rickk · « **Reply #4 on:** February 14, 2007, 12:38:41 PM »

Forged frame availabliltiy... thanks for the tip !

I don't see it mentioned on Uberti's web site... guess the web site guy has this year off.

I guess it's good that my credit card is still recovering from Christmas shopping or I would have ordered something a month ago on impulse rather than asking around a bit.

Flint · « **Reply #5 on:** February 14, 2007, 06:34:07 PM »

It is possibly a Taylors exclusive, but time will tell. Here is the catalog page, which has both.

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/bpRemingtonCollection.tpl

Muskie Hunter · « **Reply #6 on:** February 15, 2007, 11:36:35 AM »

Rickk,
For what it is worth,I have Taylor's Uberti 1858 Navy and a Cimarron 1851.Fit and finish on both are very good and the blueling is pleasing to the eye as well.The Cimarron is smoother as far as pulling the hammer back but both have great triggers.I like them both and if I had to make a choice,it would be very hard.I think Cimarron worked on the main spring to lighten it up on the 51.I wish the hammer on the 58 was a little easier,but I can live with it.I don't think you would go wrong either way.

Rickk · « **Reply #7 on:** February 28, 2007, 03:21:42 PM »

well, I dwelled on it enough... I just ordered the Taylor/Uberti with blued cast frame, and an extra cylinder.

Rickk · « **Reply #8 on:** March 02, 2007, 02:11:51 PM »

Nothing is easy...

Revolver is in stock at Taylors, but no spare cylinder.

Found a spare cylinder at Dixie Gun works.

Ordered Treso nipples from Thuder Ridge for both 1858 and my Ruger Old Army... after 3 weeks I find out they are back ordered... another 3 weeks.

Find Treso Nipples elsewhere (possibleshop.com)

Ordered a cylinder loader from Powder, Inc

Nothin is easy :-)

If I like this gun, I may order a second one

m-g Willy · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2007, 09:01:43 PM »

Is the forged frame Uberti bigger than the cast?

Willy

Rickk · « **Reply #10 on:** March 04, 2007, 02:42:50 AM »

I'm an electrical engineer, not a metalurgist. However, casting I believe tends to have a weaker grain structure. I think that forging alighns grain tructure. Forged steel is a bit denser as well.

This is not to say that casting is not strong. Ruger makes some of the strongest revolvers in the world and they are cast, not forged.

Maybe we have a someone who knows more of the technical details behind this?

Rickk · « **Reply #11 on:** March 04, 2007, 04:48:49 PM »

Anyone know if there are any spare parts I would want to keep around?

I guess the easiest general question is, what have YOU had break on an 1858 Remington ?

Rickk · « **Reply #12 on:** March 08, 2007, 04:25:24 PM »

The 1858 and a spare cylinder came yeterday...

I'm half done with a holster for it already.

Current outside temperature is -4 F, but may be in the 50's on Sunday... I'm gunna make some smoke I think

Rickk · « **Reply #13 on:** March 10, 2007, 01:28:45 PM »

It warmed up today and I had about 20 minutes with nothing planned for me, so I went out back and shot a cylinder full.

Let'see...

Ted Cash inline cappers that "fit all revolvers" don't fit 1858's. After I got back I messed with one of my cylinders with a dremel tool. I'll try it again tomorrow to see if I need to take more off. As a side note, once I figure out how much to take off I'll bring other cylinders to work and try the milling machine we have in our lab, as a dremel tool can make a cosmetic mess or two if (when) it slips.

I had installed Treso nipples in it as soon as I got it. I have quite a collection of caps from when I was more into black powder many moons ago so I tried them all. CCI #11's seemed to fit best so I tried them today. I had problems with some of them falling off. I don't think I had them pushed down as far as I should have. I'll bring a wooden dowl with me next time to seat them better. If that doesn't work I'll have to mess a bit with other brands of caps.

I used home made wads... 1/8 " felt punched with a 12 mm (.480) punch and saturated with Parafin/Tallow/Beeswax . The .480 size seemed perfect for this caliber. It was a tight fit, but still went in with thumb pressure. I was loading with a "Powder, Inc" cylinder loader so it was easy to press the wads in after the powder with my thumb.

I shot it at 25 feet. I was more focused on getting the caps to stay on and such than actually aiming, so grouping suffered a bit due to lack of concentration. Still, it grouped close to dead on and all holes in the cardboard were in a 5 inch circle. Oddly enough there were 9 holes in the thick corrogated cardboard. They all were clean circles. I don't know which ones were balls and which ones were wads, so the actual group may have been alot better than 5 inches. This is something to think about if you think that a wad with no bullet is a blank load.

My wife had apparently forgotten about the smell of cleaning a BP gun from 15 years or so ago, cuz I got the "smeels like rotten eggs" and "who farted" remarks while fighting for kitchen sink space. The first few times is always the worst

Tomorrow I'll go out there and try it again.

Rickk · « **Reply #14 on:** March 11, 2007, 01:30:08 PM »

Went out there and fired a few more cylinders today.

The opening of the nipple window made capping with the Cash capper possible. I am thinking that some of the problems I had yesterday with caps falling off were due partially to the capper not fitting correctly. They went on much better this time. I brought a plastic "Bic" pen with me to use to seat them, but they all seemed to be on pretty tight already.

I did have one out of 6 caps fall off on me the first cylinder full, so I tried reducing the load from 20 grains 3F to 15 grains 3F. I still had one fall off. I also messed with different brands and sizes of caps, but the CCI #11's seem to really be the best for the Treso nipplles. I will have to figure out how to keep the occational cap from falling off.. anyone have any techniques that work?

Oddly enough, with 15 grains instead of 20 I no longer found "extra holes" (from the wads) in the target. I took the time to actually aim once in a while and found that it groups about 2 inches at 25 feet. I think it will do better when I get used to it more. The sight picture is not what I am used to. Even my Old Army haas fancy adjustable target sights. A bit of practice and I think it will group as well as anything else I have.

I rumaged out of my old stuff a capper that I bought maybe 20-25 years ago. I don't remember who made it, but I am pretty sure I bought it off a shelf in a local gun store and that it was blister-packed. That would mean that it would have been somethign like CVA or T/C or one of the other more popular "available anywhere" brands. Anyway, the capper is nothing but a brass tube that is slit down the side. In the slit is a little brass "button". The caps get stacked up on top of each other instead of side by side. The business end of the capper is deformed a bit to retain the forwardmost cap, The rest of them slide fairly loose. To use it, you line the capper up with the nipple and sort of push the cap in place with the little button that pushes on the entire string of caps. Since this capper goes in from the rear instead of from the side the nipple window isn't an issue at all. I would love to get a few more cappers like that... not sure who made it... I think it has been discontined. Does this style capper ring a bell with anyone?

mykeal · « **Reply #15 on:** March 11, 2007, 04:06:49 PM »

Yes, the capper you describe is very familiar and still widely available. Do a search on almost any web site that has bp supplies. For example:
http://www.midwayusa.com/esearch.exe/search?category_selector=all_products&search_keywords=capper&Click+to+Begin+Search.x=19&Click+to+Begin+Search.y=14&Click+to+Begin+Search=Search_Button

Rickk · « **Reply #16 on:** March 12, 2007, 12:45:13 AM »

mykeal,

I've searched Midway and everywhere else I can think of. So far all I have found are cappers that hold the caps side by side rather than stacked on top of each other. The side by side one require sideways use, rather than stright insertion over the nipple.

Can you send me a link directly to one of the cappers that I am talking about? I maybe should post a picture of mine.

Sir Charles deMoutonBlack · « **Reply #17 on:** March 12, 2007, 04:11:28 AM »

Rickk; I have a capper like that, but got it off a table at a loval gunshow. It is the one for tight C & B cylinders.

Rickk · « **Reply #18 on:** March 12, 2007, 07:09:51 AM »

I can't remember who made it, and after searching the net for a week I'm pretty sure that it isn't made any more. I may actually have a second one someplace... not sure where it might be.

Maybe I need to take a picture of it and send it to Tedd Cash Manufacturing.

mykeal · « **Reply #19 on:** March 13, 2007, 01:21:08 AM »

Quote from: Rickk on March 12, 2007, 12:45:13 AM

mykeal,

I've searched Midway and everywhere else I can think of. So far all I have found are cappers that hold the caps side by side rather than stacked on top of each other. The side by side one require sideways use, rather than stright insertion over the nipple.

Can you send me a link directly to one of the cappers that I am talking about? I maybe should post a picture of mine.

Rickk,

I apologize - I completely misunderstood your description. I thought you meant the side-by-side design. Unfortunately, I've not seen the stacked design you meant, so I'm no help whatsoever. I will keep an eye out, however, and if I find any I'll get two. Sorry, buddy.

Rickk · « **Reply #20 on:** March 13, 2007, 05:00:15 PM »

Here is the solution to capping an 1858 without modifying the cylinder:

using this capper :

Unfortunatly, I don't believe that capper is made any more. I think it was maybe made by Uncle Mike's or CVA 25 or so years ago.

So, I stared at a Tedd Cash capper a while and came up with this idea :

using this modified Tedd Cash capper :

It still needs a bit of tweeking, and the best bet would be for someone to make the nosepiece from scratch designed especially for this purpose.

The caps are no longer loaded thru the hole in the back. There is a bit of a funnel shape to the front of the nosepiece... just press down on the top of a cap and it pops inside.

mykeal · « **Reply #21 on:** March 15, 2007, 12:16:29 AM »

Brilliant. You may have saved one of my old, unused cappers from a life of solitude.

Rickk · « **Reply #22 on:** March 15, 2007, 04:29:02 AM »

I used a bench grinder.

Go slowly, use water often to keep it cool.

Stop grinding before you get to the innermost, outward facing flare on the fingers. That way the fingers will form a little funnel and you can load it by pressing down on inverted caps. I bent the fingers a bit to reduce the outward angle. There is still enough angle to make loading it from the nose easy.