Author Topic: FA97 3-1/2 roundbutt pain  (Read 1062 times)

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Offline hobbyguymaine

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FA97 3-1/2 roundbutt pain
« on: March 12, 2007, 08:16:49 AM »
 ??? Last year I finally bit the bullet, and parted with $2,000-  for a CCW replacement for my Taurus ported 5-shot SS 45 Colt snubby.   The Taurus carried nicely, was easy to conceal, reasonably accurate, comfortable to shoot w/Win 225gr HP fact loads, in fact I probably shouldn't have sold it!   Drawbacks were that it didn't have adj. sights, it wasn't a "traditional 1/2 cock/no transfer bar" single action (although I do carry a 2" 357 Ruger SP-101 during the warmer months!), I couldn't load it nearly as hot as my old 3-screw Ruger (also now sold), and I just didn't trust it thank you Graybeard!

I'd previously handled but never fired FA 83s, also looked at a 97 once and was impressed with the quality of fit and finish and reputation of Freedom Arms handguns. The "legendary" Brian Pearce FA97 3-1/2 roundbutt 45 Colt, with it's slimmer small dia. 5-shot cyl. and short barrel and eject hsg, along with the round butt option, along with a more traditional design on the internals than the new model Rugers, and the capability of handling "Ruger" loads all sounded like the answer to my quest for a stronger 45 Colt single action I could comfortably concealed carry and depend on 24/7, as a self defense and hunting gun.   As mentioned, I immediately sold the Taurus, and just recently sold the 3-screw brass Super framed 4-5/8" Ruger I'd carried for 35 yrs. while hunting, as outside of a trip to Boston to visit my daughter or NJ for my brother, my FA97 is tucked into an IWB holster 80+% of my waking (and sometimes sleeping) hours!   I've got to admit that my old Ruger was a better hunting handgun than my 97, and outside of the sticky rubber butt - not quite as comfortable a carry and never will be as quick a reload as the Taurus!   

I love the 97 though and don't regret buying it, but it's now time to seriously try to address it's shortcomings.  Because it's so tight and well-fitted, I need to clean and lube more frequently than I have, but that's my shortcoming!   As I'd always been happy with the adjustable factory sights on my Rugers I ordered my 97 w/the standard premier grade hunting sight, and my almost 60yr old eyes would do better w/the optional V-notch Express (and a red fiberoptic bead, or blade) - I think?   Any thoughts or experience on this would be appreciated.   It hurts to shoot it with warm loads, without shooting gloves that is.   Thev recoil is very manageable, but due to the small gripframe unless I wrap my hand either further or less than what's natural, I end up with bloodied knuckles by the second 4 rds.   I believe that I can remedy this by finally cutting a couple grip blanks out of that birdseye Maple board I've kept drystored w/the matching rifle blank for the past 40 years - think if I shape the rt side grip w/a bulbous lump to hold my palm away from the frame by another 1/2 -3/4" I'll pull my 1st 2 knuckles away from trigger guard enough to avoid the battering (and without making it harder to conceal) - gotta try building a temporary and non-destructive lump on those optional/more expensive black micarta grips and see if it helps!

The 3rd, and final, shortcoming isn't really that - just a desire to work up a good all around warm 45 Colt carry/hunting load, short enough to fit my 97 and also to function reliably through my SS Rossi lever carbine (which I've 1/2 button magged, shortened to 18" brl, replaced buttstock w/94 Win shotgun butt, adding either a red front firesite & Williams FP or rear green outlined firesight per 454/480 Rossi).  This gives me a same ammo matching lightweight and durable truck/tractor gun to stretch my range and accuracy, which I can grab going out the door, if I'm headed into the woods to work or walk.  After rereading John Linebaugh, Paco Kelly, Marshall Stanton, Brian Pearce, Chuck Hawks, John Taffin, and others I've come to the conclusion that besides Win 225 HP I have 3 bullet choices on hand which I can properly crimp in factory groove to not set back in the carbine mag tube, and yet to maintain a 1.585" max OAL so as to not protrude from the 97 cylinder: 1.) Hornady 250grHP/XTP which I could load near 1,000fps at comfortable 14,000 psi (15,900 cup) pressure levels or closer to 1,200 fps still staying below Ruger Blackhawk max pressures of 28,000-32,000CUP,  2.) Cast Performance Bullet Company cast 265 grain WFNGC, again comfortably at the 1,000 - 1,2000fps w/equivalent pressures,  3.) Speer Uni-Cor 300gr JSP at 900-1000fps still maintaining those sensible pressures.   I'd guess rifle velocities will run 100-200fps faster, but I won't bother chronographing till I narrow it down to a 1/2 dzn. comfortable to shoot and accurate loads.   The ultimate goal is a comfortable to shoot, reasonably accurate load with flawless functioning in both handgun and rifle, certainly more than capable of dropping deer or coyote at ranges of 50-100 yds. 

I'm also hoping to attain this handload goal at the lower end of my anticipated pressure range, as my latest project is a 30-40 Krag double rifle, on a 20ga. outside hammer shotgun frame, and if it works out eventually 2 more - a 45-90 or 50-110 on a 12ga. and a 45 Colt on a dainty and delicate little 410, and I don't want want to keep special low pressure loads around for just that!

Good shooting,  Joe(hobbyguymaine)


Offline MarkH

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Re: FA97 3-1/2 roundbutt pain
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2007, 05:24:09 PM »
The 3-1/2" round butt 97 is a little challenging to master, isn't it?   :'(  It took an awful lot of draw and fire and dry fire work for me to get used to the way it points ... which is a little different than the standard-butt guns.  It also takes a little more concentration to make good 50 yard hits with it - but I've benched it with some pretty good 300 grain handloads and it is me, not the gun.

BUT ...

1.  It is far and away the handiest little big bore single action I have ever seen.  Much ado is made of the Horvath Lil Rugers - and while I like them, the snubby 97 is like an OM Ruger that has had all the extra space sucked out of it.  It is fast into action and (once one gets used to it) points well.

2.  It is the lightest carrying big bore single action I have ever used.  If you didn't know it already, Freedom Arms is now making their high ride strongside and crossdraw holsters cut down to 3-1/2", not just the 4-1/4" model.

3.  It is just a darn fun gun.

I clean mine when it stops turning easily - about every three hundred rounds.  This has not been that big of a deal to me ... the ejector rod assembly comes off pretty quick and in my experience hasn't shot loose under recoil.

One load combination you might try when you stock up next is Lil Gun powder and the 250 grain Nosler Sporting Hollowpoint.  I have not tried it in the 3-1/2" but it gave fantastic accuracy out of my 7.5" 97 and still gave me 1100-1150 fps out of my 4-1/4".  You might try working with a lower hold on the gun and see if that helps with the bashed knuckles.  It does for me.

I too have been thinking pretty hard about the express sights.  I think I might actually shoot them as well in the 3-1/2" gun ... I will for sure shoot them faster. 

Here is a picture to illustrate the thread  ;) :


Offline oso45-70

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Re: FA97 3-1/2 roundbutt pain
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2007, 03:07:03 AM »

MarkH

Your Little 3 1/2" 97 sure is a pretty thing. Been thinking of something on that line for my carry gun. Now all i have to do is get busy and get it done....Joe....
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Offline hobbyguymaine

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Re: FA97 3-1/2 roundbutt pain
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2007, 04:27:42 PM »
Mark H,

    Your lower hold suggestion does work but doesn't come naturally for me.    I tried it last year as an alternative to shooting gloves, but wasn't able to master it as an automatic quick draw hold, making sight alignment a problem!

   My old 45 Blackhawk w/brass Super frame came out of holster and on target almost naturally for me, even the 4-5/8" 357 3 screw I picked up does nearly as well, as does my 5-1/2" Single Six also.   Before my Taurus and SP-101 I bought a Super Single six in 32 H&R planning to alum. rd butt it and shorten barrel and eject' hsg. to bare min., think it would've been nearly the same size as our 97s - but no comparison to 45 Colt!   I couldn't get used to the New Model action and took a beating trading the 32 in towards the Taurus 45, after looking into having my 3 screw Super Single converted to 38 Spec and decding too much money and too lttle power!   I do like the old 3 screw Rugers nearly as well as my FA 97 - when they're polished w/springs replaced, real nice!   Too bad Bill didn't start SS till the new models, or better yet a Single action version of the SP-101 (still mentally toying with that one myself!)!

   Outside of the grip, for me the 3-1/2" 97 is near perfection, and when I get around to it if custom fitted grips don't help, I may just eventually get my SS tig welding custom fabricator buddy help me redesign the 97 gripframe.   Trouble is, the 97 is 80% of Ruger sizewise and 100%+ of a custom fitted and worked over Ruger in that smaller pkg - little afraid to mess with perfection!

   I probably should've ordered a crossdraw highride from FA w/the handgun, but I'm impatient and have enjoyed leatherwork for 50 years, and spent nearly a day (while impatiently awaiting my new 97!) researching and finally ordering a couple 4-3/4" Coltsize holsters, and once received cutting them down and restitching them into crossdraw highride 3-1/2" rigs, and also did the same to my K frame S&W size IWB I kept after selling the Taurus - stangely enough now my primary holster for the 97.

   For me too: "far and away the handiest little big bore single action I have ever seen ... like an OM Ruger that has had all the extra space sucked out of it."   Quoting you, well said.   Once the snow melts off, I'm really looking forward to spending lots of time with my new friend and companion!    Enjoy yours too and I'll post w/photos once I finish some grips.

Thanks,  Joe(hobbyguymaine)

Offline MarkH

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Re: FA97 3-1/2 roundbutt pain
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2007, 05:29:20 PM »
If I was going to do two things to this gun, the first would be to take a little metal off the bottom of the gripframe ... not much, but about 1/2 of the bottom frame (might have to weld it up a little on the inside for strength, don't know).  The second would be to contour the front edge of the topstrap to more closely resemble the fixed sight 97's.

I am not complaining though.