H110 & CCI 300 primers

[tc scout]

Has anyone used CCI 300 primers with H110 and if so did you experience any problems ? Seems to be alot of controversy over the need of mag versus standard primers for this powder. I would hope I can use the 300 without any problems cause I have ton of them. Your thoughts PLEASE.

[Questor]

Primers are cheap. Get the right ones. Every published load you will find in reputable reloading manuals will specify a magnum primer for that powder. If you want to use standard primers, switch to Alliant 2400 powder.

[arky65]

When I first started handloading I tried H110 and Win296 in my .357 Ruger Security Six. I did not heed the warnings about primers and firm crimp needed with these powders. When I tripped the trigger nothing appeared to happened. I went to open the cylinder to check the round and could not open the cylinder. The powder had not  ignited and the force from the primer pushed the projectile out between the barrel and the cylinder. Had to take a wooden dowel and pound the bullet  back into the case so I could open the cylinder. Now when I use either of these powders I use magnum primers and everything works fine. I also had an incident with these powders due to light crimp. I believe there is a warning on the can of both of these powders advising the use of magnum primers and a firm crimp.This incident is what prompted me to purchase a bullet puller.

I have read that these two powders are one in the same.

Just my Experience

arky65

[warf73]

Make sure you use a heavy crimp no matter what. That said I would the mag primers.

I use Win 296 in my 445SM, I loaded up the charge of powder in 10 rounds of each primer mag and standard prime (with heavy crimp). Had 0 ignition problem with either BUT with the standard primers my extreme FPS spread was extremely larger than with the mag primers. The groups were double in sized compared to mage primer also.

We as reloaders like to experiment as my case above but we all need remember we don’t need to reinvent the wheel, as someone with better equipment has already done that for us.

Warf

[KN]

Yes Mag primers. I also had a bad experience with H-110 in a 357. Powder residue was so bad the cylinder wouldn't rotate after a few rounds. It was blowing under the extrator plate and locking every thing up. Changed primers and never had another problem.   KN

[tc scout]

Thanks for the info members, I kind of suspected the 300 wasn't going to fly but i wanted some input from others on this forum. One other question I have, is the Remington 2 1/2 considered a magnum primer? The Hodgdon manual lists a Rem 2 1/2 for 23 to 24 grs of H110 and 240 gr jhp in 44 mag.Also what is the best powder to use with the 300 primer and 240 gr JHP? 

[Lloyd Smale]

I know John Linebaugh uses them about exclusivly and even in the 475 and 500s and even with 110. Ive fooled with them alot and have never had a problem with them using 110. NOT THAT IT COULDNT HAPPEN. Keep in mind that it is usually warm where John shoots and cold would really change things. Personaly ive never gone so far with it as to check it in cold weather so i wont tell you there ok. I guess if it were me and i wanted to use them up for plinking id go for it. But if i was loading for a hunt that i needed absolute reliability id go with a mag. As to mag primmers ive used them all including the ww combo mag/std. and havent had a problem with any of them with 110. To tell you the truth i dont even use much 110 anymore. Its just not a versitle powder. It cant be downloaded and has a reputation for being hard to ignite. Its just not worth it to me to stock a bunch of it when theres powders that will give the velocitys it will give ignite easier and can be downloaded easier and give just as good of accuracy. Some of my favorites for mag pistol handloads are h4227 aa9 2400 and lilgun

[tomzuki]

Ambient Temp.??  Maybe so.  I live in California.  Usually doesn't go below 60 degrees.  I shoot H110 in a M1 carbine and I use standard primers.  1000's of reloads and no problems cycling action or igniting in general.  Go figure!!

[Lone Star]

Every published load you will find in reputable reloading manuals will specify a magnum primer for that powder. If you want to use standard primers, switch to Alliant 2400 powder.

Whoa, someone hasn't checked before posting.  Expect to get into trouble whenever you post words like "Every" and "Always".  None  of the following manuals list magnum primers for use with H110 in the .44 Magnum catridge:

Nosler #5 - .44 Mag - H110 - WLP primer
Hornady #6 - .44 Mag - H110 - WLP primer
Hodgdon 2006 - .44 Mag - H110 - Remington 2 1/2 primer

Are these reputable enough for you?   

PS - I personally believe that the use of magnum primers is a good idea  for hunting loads that may be used in cooler temperatures.  But I am not a reputable loading manual.


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[tc scout]

Just found some information on the Speer datafile website. It is load data for the 44 mag, 210 gr gold dot HP. For both H110 & 296 it states a CCI 350 mag primer, all other powders listed use CCI 300 primers. I am loading 240 gr Nosler HP with H110 in 44 mag for my contender. Since this is going to be my huntin' round I am just going to play safe and use CCI 350 mags for peace of mind in cold weather. Thanks to all who helped with my decision.                                                                   

[Lloyd Smale]

one thing i will say for sure is any mag primer will ignite it. You really dont need to exclusivly use ccis. The reason the speer maunal states cci350s is that the same company that owns speer owns cci. I fed mag or even a ww mag/std will do fine.

[tc scout]

Why wouldn't they recommend that primer, its their bullet and load data. Point is most recommend mag primer for H110. What got me in trouble with this issue in the first place was Lee's load manual. It states DO NOT use mag primers unless stated for that load and they did not for H110.  Live & learn I guess.

[KN]

Check Winchesters box. WLP primers are mag primers. They state "for sandard and magnum loads".  Been using them for years.   KN

[Turk]

I personally use Win. large pistol in all my loading wheter low or top end.  I've never encountered a problem when using H-110, 296 or #9.  I like the Winchester primers over other brands.  Something you may find interesting is on Hodgon web site reload date http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp  they specify powder (Hodgon, Win and IMR) and grains but do not specify what type of primer to use.
I'm loading up 500 44 mag. today and will load up a few with CCI standard and mag primers as I still have a some left with H-110 top end load.  My loads today are lower end 44 mag. using IMR 4746.  I'll let you know what my observations are.

Turk

[Larry Gibson]

Back in the early '70s CCI primers were the prevailent and generally available brand of primers where I lived. I was loading the Kieth 429421 bullet over H110 in the .44 magnum case using CCI 300s for use in a the Ruger semi auto and a revolver. The load was worked up in the Ruger rifle and there were no problems. On the 3rd or 4th shot I had the exact same situation arky65 describes. I had a rod to push the bullet back into the cylinder to be able to rotate?remove the cylinder. I could see where the H110 next to the primer had started to burn. I cleaned the revover and tried it again. after two or three shots the same thing happened. I switched to CCI 350s and never had another problem. These days I use either the 350s or WLPs in the .41 and .44s with H110. I use 550s or WSRs in the .357 with H110. The loads worked alright in the rifle as the gas iscontained and the powder can get burning ok. In the rvolver the primer has the force to move th bullet into the throat and forcing cone. This gives much to quick expansion ratio and the powder occasionally doesn't get ignited well. Additionally the barrel/cylinder gap vents the pressure quick and the fire goes out.  With jacketed bullets getting stuck in the focing cone an SEE is perhaps possible. This is probably why reduced loads of H110/296 are not recommended.

Larry Gibson

[Turk]

Just got back from the range.  I loaded up 12 rounds of 44 mag. with 24.4 gr. of H-110 pushing a LBT style WFN 248.5 Gas checked bullet sized to .430 dia.  The mould used is a Ballist-cast 250 gr. but with my alloy it drops 249 + or -3/10.  This is my one of my whitetail loads and it very accurate. 

All fired and felt recoil seemed the same and accuracy was the same.  It would be interesting seeing the two chronoed.  It would seem that someone on this board would of done this?  But from s couple of posts some have experienced problems so my advice if you're not confident using the CCI 300 don't.  If you have plent of 300 primers load up some lower and end and blast away.

My current goal is to get rid of all the different types of powers I've purchased over the years and have one a low end and two top end pistol powders.  Right not I've got or have loaded up Red Dot, Green Dot, Blue Dot Poka-Dot etc. etc. and will probably settle for Red Dot and H-110 and 2400.

Turk

[Lone Star]

....The loads worked alright in the rifle as the gas iscontained and the powder can get burning ok. In the rvolver the primer has the force to move th bullet into the throat and forcing cone. This gives much to quick expansion ratio and the powder occasionally doesn't get ignited well. Additionally the barrel/cylinder gap vents the pressure quick and the fire goes out....

Mostly right.  Dave Andrews at Speer did a lot of peizometric pressure testing in the early 1970s with revolvers (he was among the first to ever do so) and discovered that the moment the cylinder gap is covered by the bullet - and thus closed - was usually the moment of highest pressure.  Obviously if the powder was going to fully ignite it would have to do so before the highest pressure was reached. 

In a rifle the bullet can only travel a few hundreds of an inch before it is retarded by the rifling - this slows its acceleration immediately and pressure can build quickly.  In a revolver the bullet can travel several tenths of an inch before being retarded in the forcing cone and this delay can hurt ignition.  H110/W296 are sensitive to crimp strength and case grip; if either or both are too low ignition will be spotty. This may explain why some folks get by with standard primers and others need magnums - if the former have a smaller expander plug and better crimp, the bullet is held tight longer and pressure can build.  Perhaps magnum primers are really a crutch to make up for faulty loading tools.....   

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