Author Topic: Cop Went Too Far  (Read 1026 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Sourdough

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8150
  • Gender: Male
Cop Went Too Far
« on: March 21, 2007, 08:22:55 AM »
First of all let me say, I have always told my son to respect the Police.  My wife and I have always told him they are there to help you anytime you need help.  But now thanks to an overzelious Officer that teaching has been blowen right out the window.

Two weeks ago while I was in Miami my son got into a bit of trouble.  He was returning to the high school after lunch.  After making a turn onto the street that goes to the highschool he lost control on the ice.  He went off the road and hit a fence post.  Damaged his bumper and slightly bent the post.  While he and his buddy was checking out the damage a woman drove up screaming that he hit her fence, damaging her private property.  She also said she was reporting him to the police.  Then she drove away.  My son got into his truck and took his buddy back to school, and since he had no more classes for the day he went home and called his Mom.  My wife disagreeded with what the unknowen woman had said, she said she thought the fence belonged to the city of North Pole.  For him to call the City and talk to the City Engineer.  As he was hanging up there was a knock on the door, my son answered the door and there stood a North Pole Police Officer.

The Officer then said in a very authoritive voice, "Step outside!".  My son steped back to grab his coat since it was -40, the Officer then in a louder voice demanded "Step outside now!".  So my son went outside without his coat, only in a tee shirt, jeans, and sneakers.  The Officer then wanted to know who was home, my son told him no one he was alone.  The Officer wanted to see the damage to his truck, and made him walk in front of him, and stand off to the side as he surveyed the damage to the bumper. Then he ordered my son to stand beside the front fender of his vehicle while he climbed inside to write the citation.  The officer sat in his warm vehicle for 20 minutes, while my son stood outside in -40 degree weather.  My son said that writing the citation only took a few minutes, then the Officer talked on the radio to someone for a while.  Then the Officer sat there drumming his fingers on the steering wheel while glaring at my son.  My son felt he was being baited, that the Officer was looking for an excuse to escallate the situation, and him turning to go get a coat would have been the excuse the Officer was looking for.  After 20 minutes the Officer got out of the vehicle and approched my son.  Taking his time he told my son that he was being charged with leaving the scene of an accident, damage to private property, and failure to report an accident.  This action would result in him losing his licsence, and possiable jail time.  His arraignment is the 30th of March.  My son is devastated.  Now he has to get an Attourney to represent him at his arraignment, and in court.

Here is a young man that has never been in any knid of trouble.  The wife and I have only had to ground him once during highschool, and that was for a very minor incident.  He does not drink, or do drugs, his only addiction is Hockey.  When driving he is a very safe and continicious driver.  He does not speed, run stop signs, or do anything unsafe.  All his buddies complain that he drives like an old grandma, my son's responce is that the North Pole Police are always following him around town.  And I have noticed them following me when I drive his truck.  I think he is being singled out because he drives the nicest looking truck at the highschool.  In fact it is one of the sharpest looking trucks in town.

As for his socalled accident.  Alaska statute says only accidents with personal injury or property damage of $1500.00 or greater needs to be reported.  The cost of a new bumper was less than $500.00, cost of a new post was $258.00 (already paid to the City Of North Pole).  And no one was hurt.  First of all the woman making the report lied about her personal property being damaged, the fence does belong to the City Of North Pole.  Her property is on the other side of the fence, with an easement.  And with the new rules Canada has enforced the last couple of years, they will deny him entry to play Hockey during the annual Hockey camps this  summer.  His goals are to become a professional Hockey player.  There goes his oppertunities for a Hockey scholership for college.  And it is next to impossiable to get to the pros with out playing at the colledge level. 
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline rockbilly

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3367
Re: Cop Went Too Far
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2007, 10:47:58 AM »
Small mind, big gun, immediate A-hole.  I hope it has no serious effect on your son.

I think I would make an appointment and go talk to the Chief of Police.  It sounds like this cop may need a little additional training in dealing with people.  If that doesn't do any good, have his attorny talk to him.  It may not do any good, but it will let them know that someone is watching them. 

Offline Redhawk1

  • Life time NRA Supporter.
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (78)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10748
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cop Went Too Far
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2007, 10:59:52 AM »
I know of a few cops like that. It is not an uncommon occurrence.
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

Endowment Life Member of the NRA
Life Member NA

Offline Brett

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5148
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cop Went Too Far
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2007, 12:01:04 PM »
I figure it will get thrown out of traffic court since the damage has already been payed for and your son has a clean record.  I would not get to worked up about it.   
Life memberships:  <><, NRA, BASS, NAFC

Offline dukkillr

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3428
    • The Daily Limit
Re: Cop Went Too Far
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2007, 12:23:09 PM »
I figure it will get thrown out of traffic court since the damage has already been payed for and your son has a clean record.  I would not get to worked up about it.  

And always be careful about leaving the scene of an accident.

Offline Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26907
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cop Went Too Far
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2007, 12:59:49 PM »
While I totally agree the officer was out of line in what he did regarding getting the coat and most likely should receive some administrative punishment for it I think your son also acted quite improperly.

First he should NOT have left the scene of the accident and more especially so after the land owner had said what she did. When he left the FIRST call should have been to report the accident and then return to the scene assuming he had no cell phone to make the call. Also he should have spoken up and told the officer that he needed to get his coat FIRST before stepping out into such cold air.

Both made mistakes. Your son might have to pay more for his since he did leave the scene and waited too long to make a call to report it to the authorities. But the officer should be reported by you and his behavior should earn him a reprimand as well.

The one thing I believe taught in all states is that when you are involved in an accident is do not leave the scene until an officer arrives. He did and I am pretty sure it will cost him extra for that error in judgement.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline cherokee75

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 156
Re: Cop Went Too Far
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2007, 05:02:02 PM »
It is always important to stay on scene after an accident even if it is just a one car property damage only.  If there is some kind of absolute necessity in leaving, the driver should call the local PD and report the accident and explain why he is not on scene and make proper arrangements.  When you leave the scene, even if you plan to report it, you take a risk.  There would be no purpose in the law if you got stopped leaving the scene and were able to just say, "I planned to report."  In this day and age almost everyone has a cell phone, including victims and witenesses, and pay phones are on every corner.  As far as waiting outside without a coat, a could see a teenager who has not had much experience wtih the police not speaking up and requesting a coat prior to going outside.  Not having been on scene while the officer was writng the ticket, I can't say what went on but if he intentionally made your son stand in that insanely cold weather with no coat for an outrageous amount of time, then that's a problem.

Offline Ridgeviewer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Cop Went Too Far
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2007, 05:25:03 PM »
In Central Ohio, anytime there is ice or snow covered roads, the state and local police announce on the news if involved in an accident exchange driver license and insurance info. Then you have 24 hours to report the accident.
Central Ohio is very populated though.
Best of Luck to your Son,
Ridge
I'll keep My God, Guns, Money, & Freedom
You can keep the Change

Offline Redhawk1

  • Life time NRA Supporter.
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (78)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10748
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cop Went Too Far
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2007, 12:50:20 AM »
In Delaware if it is a non injury accident you have 24 hours to report it. You can call the police if you want but not necessary. Exchanging of insurance information is required.  If you damage someone's property you must inform the other party and give them your insurance information.
If  you're going to make a hole, make it a big one.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

Endowment Life Member of the NRA
Life Member NA

Offline myronman3

  • Moderator
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4837
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cop Went Too Far
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2007, 03:13:17 AM »
dont get excited, get an attorney.  cops are not the real power holders; the judge is what you should concern yourself with now.   

Offline magooch

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6626
Re: Cop Went Too Far
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2007, 03:34:30 AM »
Sourdough, the upside of this is that you and yours should feel a bit safer now that you know   Barney is on duty.  Be happy that he didn't blow your boy away.

By the way, when I was stationed at Eilson, North Pole consisted of two buildings and a half dozen trees.  How the heck did it ever get big enough to warrant a cop--let alone a whole department?

Your son should appeal to St. Nick (Santa Clause) for a little mercy.  Sorry for being so flippant, but my god, if this is the biggest issue in your metropolis, the rest of us should envy you.
Swingem

Offline Sourdough

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8150
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cop Went Too Far
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2007, 06:52:24 AM »
  First off, Alaska statute says "Accidents involving only property damage under $1500.00, does not have to be reported".  Therefore it is not a reportiable accident.  Also (per his attorney) his talking to the resident, admiting he hit the fence, and giving her his name and number is considered adiquite notification for a minor incident like this.  When it's 40 below you don't sit around looking at the damage either.

  This comes from us driving on ice and snow 7 months out of the year.  Everyone goes into the ditch, slids off the road, or slids backwards down the drive, several times a winter.  If all such accidents were to be reported there would not be enough people to take the reports.  The fence that was hit, was built in the mid 80s, and has been hit so many times by other people that it is falling down in places.  There is six and seven foot gaps where the fencing has been torn out by vehicles.  And according to the City Engineer my son is the first person to admit hitting that fence or to make restitution for damage to the fence.

  Some new information from my son's attorney about the Police Officer.  He worked for the Airport Police force, then left for undisclosed reasons.  Then got hired by North Pole following the incident at the middle school last year.  He has quite a reputation around Fairbanks, and it's not good.

   Also found out he is the officer that is constantly jacking the kids up at the bike park looking for drugs.  He is the only North Pole officer that goes there.  He is also the same officer that chased me down for sliding the truck around in the parking lot earlier this winter, then got upset when he found a graybearded old man driving.  He was expecting a kid, and when it turned out to be me he just drove off.

  Magooch/TM7:  North Pole now has 1500 residents in the city, which is a very small area.  The area surrounding North Pole is where most of the subdivisions are.  We have resisted annexation twice from the city.  A new highway has been built from Eielson to Fairbanks since you were here magooch.  Most of the land between Ft Wainwright and North Pole has been commercialised.  A big Flood Control porject was built at the Moose Creek Bluff.  It's one mile wide and eight miles long.  It stretches from the Chena river to the Tanana.  Just a flat plain with a big dike on the west side, and a damn on the Chena to divert flood waters to the Tanana.  North Pole now has four Police Officers.  And they patrol from Ft Wainwright to Eielson on the Richardson highway.  Big source of revinue for the city.  They get a cut of all the tickets written outside the city limits.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline 35Rem

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 550
    • Remington Model 8 and 81 Autoloading Rifles
Re: Cop Went Too Far
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2007, 07:59:04 AM »
I would think that a police officer, or some city official, would have to determine whether $1500 dollars of damage was done or not.  It really should have been reported, sure saves a lot of questions.

Best of luck to you.
Remington Model 8 and 81 Autoloading Rifles
http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com/
Vintage Semiauto Rifles
http://vintagesemiautorifle.proboards105.com/index.cgi

Offline cherokee75

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 156
Re: Cop Went Too Far
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2007, 03:18:46 PM »
What exactly does it mean accidents involving damage under $1500 do not have to be reported?  That is a little vague, do you have the whole statute?  I understand accidents involving two vehicles are often taken care of by exchanging information between the driver's wihtout police involvement but usually an insurance co. makes them report it after the fact because they want an incident number.  In I,L a state crash report is not necessary for damage under $500 but that does not mean that if the at fault driver thinks the damage is under $500 he can leave without reporting the damge to the property owner.  That is when it becomes leaving the scene.  Don't let one bad apple spoil the bunch in terms of law enforcement, as with any job there are good and bad employees. How many times do you have a "bad" run in with a clerk at a store or such.  That doesn't mean all clerk's are bad.  Just something to think about.  I can't speak for the other things the officer has done which sourdough described, but it sounds like he is proactive.  I would rather have an officer working my city who is proactive instead of doing nothing.  Proactive obviously does not mean harassment but as long as he follows the law and procedure he is only doing his job.  Maybe he is better suited for a bigger city?  Just a thought!

Offline Thebear_78

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1006
Re: Cop Went Too Far
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2007, 03:57:15 PM »
I have had a lot of experience with police officers, my dad is was a police officer for over 30 years and my uncle still is.  I have personally known well over 100 police officers and have come to a few conclusions.    There are two different kinds of cops.........the ones who want to help people out.......and aholes who just want to have power and authority over others.    Sounds like this guy was one of the aholes.   Unfortunatly they tend to do very well in the police force.  The good guys tend to stay patrol officers because that is where they can do the most good, but the aholes always want more and more power and tend to climb the ladder and make it to the "brass".      I would definatley fight this ticket and report the ahole to anyone who will listen.   a little payback against the lady might not be too bad an idea either..  ;)