Turkey loads in 12 ga shotgun

[jp]

What seems to be a good starting load for a 12 ga muzzleloader?  I understand the powder/shot equation, and wad placements, but is a shot cup needed.  Depending on site in planning on 70-80 grains powder with matching #5 or #6 shot.
Thanks
jP

[Wynn]

I use 80 grains of 2f and 1 1/4 oz of #5 shot. Any more powder or shot blows out the pattern in my Pedersoli/Navy double. I do not use a shot cup. My gun is choked; I suspect I/M. Many are cylinder bore and all require some experimentation to get the best patterns.

[Will Bison]

I have the Pedersoli 12 guage and have tried all the one piece plastic wads, shot cups and collars. They just won't hold up to BP, they melt. I finally went to a sub-sonic load with the old over powder wad, two felt wads and an over shot wad at about 1,000 fps.  Thirty yards is a long reach on Turkey, I just live with it. My gun is bored cyl/cyl so that limits my range also. On Turkey I'm comfortable at 20 yards or less.

On clays or quail I go with number 8 shot. Sometimes you get lucky.

[coyotejoe]

It all depends on the gun. Choke works wonders compared to a cylinder bore, that's why it took the world by storm 130 years ago. Cylinder bore guns are more touchy as to what they will pattern and there just isn't anything you can do to stretch the range of a cylinder bore gun beyond about 25 yards. Many people claim that shot cups tighten their patterns but I've never found that to be true in the dozen or so barrels I've pattern tested. With a choked gun one can usually just duplicate the loads of modern shotshells, that is to say, load 3 1/4 drams of black powder and 1 1/4 ounces shot or 2 3/4 drams 1 1/8 ounces up to 4 1/2 drams 1 5/8 ounces.  I load powder, two overpowder cards, shot, then one over powder card split to half thickness or a hand punched Styrofoam over shot wad. There is no need for the thick fiber "cushion wads" and they often spoil the pattern. But really, you have to shoot patterns on paper to know what your gun likes. The general rule-of-thumb to start is to load equal volumes of powder and shot using ffg black powder but that is just a starting point that I've found to work well in choked guns.

[Smokepole]

JP,
I have found that if I replace the over powder wad with "3 to 4" over-shot cards helped my smoothbore shoot better patterns (also means one less component to fumble with in the field).  I feel that if anything behind the shot column is heavier then that object can over take the shot and punch a hole in it.

I have also made "paper shot cups".  Using the 3x5 cards in magazines, I roll up a tube like a "coin tube", fold one end closed pour in the shot, fold the end, and just slide it down the barrel.  I know shooters who use post-it notes, brown paper bags, parchment paper, etc.  Made properly the packet will tear on ignition, hold the shot togeather as it runs the length of the barrel and fall off about 10-15 feet in front of you.  As with most things, there are those who couldn't get the shot packet to work for them.  It couldn't hurt to try.

You could also try using nickel plated shot or bismuth.  Being harder more will stay round and not deform as easily as lead.  This will help to eliminate the fliers (by the way fliers can help with skeet and sporting clays!!!).

Jug choking will also provide you with an internal choke and depending on barrrel thickness you can choke all the way to what would be considered a full choke.

When it is all said and done, you will not get the range and performance of the newer modern shot shells, but I bet I have a higher shot the harvest ratio for my hunting seasons (waterfowl, upand game, and turkey) than the average hunter.