problem with groupings

[Muscles]

I have a 223 bull barrel handi, i seem to be having trouble grouping with 5 shot groups, i'm wondering how long do most of you wait to take your 2,3,4,5 shot.  Should i just stick to 3 shot groupings......to prove my gun. My best 3 shot group is 0.42, but lately nothing under one inch with my reloads, could be the change in outdoor temp but i don't think so. 

PS: Glad to have found this GREAT forum.     tks for a your help.

[bigjeepman]

Welcome to GBO Muscles ... !! I hope you enjoy the site as much as I do. There are many good people here that want to help you with any issues you are having.

As for time at the range, there will be many different points of view because it is something that there is really no "one answer" for. Personally, I shoot 3 shot groups while in the early stages of load development. As I start to zero in on my best load, I start loading 5 rounds for each test load. I always shoot "round robin" when trying to find the load I am after. In other words if I have five different loads I am going to test today for my .223 bb Handi, I will fire two fouling shots (factory ammo) to start. I then fire one round of load #1 at target #1 followed by one round of load #2 at target #2 ... followed by one round of load #3 at target #3 ... and so on. I let the barrel cool down after firing one round of each test load. I try to cool the barrel down to where it was after firing the the two fouling shots which is pretty cool and then I start with firing the second round of load #1 at target #1 ... the second round of load #2 at target #2 ... and keep repeating this method until I have gone through 4 rounds.

This round robin method of test firing helps eliminate a lot of the variables such wind, barrel temp, etc and gives a better view of which loads are the most consistent. I then take the last round of each test load and shoot all of them at target #6 to see where the best consistency is. Here is some good reading and Dan can explain it much better than I. To simply answer your original question, it is much easier to shoot smaller groups with three shots naturally, than with five shot groups but five shots will tell you more. After finding my "best" load, I then challenge myself to shoot the best 3 and 5 shot group I possibly can.

http://www.clik.to/optimalchargeweight

bjm

[44 Man]

Stick with 3 shot groups to verify where your gun is shooting.  Unless you are sitting in the middle of a prairie dog town (that sound's like fun!), you only need to know that the first or second shot go where you expect them to go.  Little bitty groups are fun to brag about, and I have done my share, but the important issue is that the gun puts that first shot where you want it to go.  I have an old Marlin lever in .35 rem that will walk the impact vertically up the target after 3 shots as the barrel heats up.  That has never kept the gun from harvesting venison dependably in the woods.  44 Man

[PartsMan]

You should be able to get 5 shots out of a 223 heavy barrel.
Have you skimmed through fact and help to see if something could be wrong.
Some of these rifles are very picky about the forearm and latch.

[mookster79]

I'd have to go with partsman on this.  I got lucky and didn't have to do anything in the faq, but I get 5 shot groups out of my .223. It is not even the bull barrel and I have no trouble with that many rounds.  It did take a while to break in rifle and find ammo that was dependable on a regular basis. I don't reload, so can't help you with that part of it.

[Muscles]

Tks guys, i figure just a little fine tuning may help my reloads, as per the gun evrything is good on it, O rings in place.
Perhaps instead of trying to get 40 to 50 rds off to find a good load i may have to cut back to 20 or so and give the rifle a little more time to cool down( i don't usually rush anyway).

[eskimo36]

Muscles, looks like you have keeper.

Groups are good for indications of consistency from shot to shot but if you deer hunt or predator hunt what you really want to know is where the first cold barrel shot is going to go in relation to your sight picture.  If shooting p-dogs or other multiple opportunity targets you want to know where warm and hot barrel shots go. 

For the type of hunting I do, two shots that touch where my cross hairs are pointed is all i ever hope for.  I hope someday to burn a a case of ammo up shooting prairie dogs and test what a hot barrel does.