.44 Mag reloading question/Is it the gun or load?

[cherokee75]

I recently purchased some Speer Gold Dot 210 grain HPs and loaded five test rounds with 12 grains of Unique using CCI 300 primers with a 1.600" OAL.  I got this reloading info off of Speer's website. I went to the range today and fired the test rounds through my Ruger Redhawk 7 1/2" barrel and after I fired two rounds, the cyclinder would not rotate and seemed as if the cylinder was locked up.  I had to open it and manually advance to the next round.  This happened a total of three times.  I then used reloads my father in-law made which were 240 grain SWC bullets with 8 grains of Bullseye and I shot 10 without any problems at all.  I couild not see any difference in the fired cases from the two different rounds. The gun had not been cleaned since the last time it was fired but I am assuming it is not the gun since the 240 grain ammo functioned properly.  Anyone have any suggestions?  Also, the accuracy of the 210 grain bullets was fine, I don't know if this helps at all.

[Castaway]

The 240 loads with Bullseye were well within Alliant data.  The 210's though were close to max.  Alliant doesn't list a 210, but a 200 tops out at 13 grains of Unique.  Their 225 grain load tops out at 10.7 grains.  Pressure doesn't rise in a linear fashion with powder charge and Unique, although in my opinion the best all round pistol powder ever made, has a reputation for pressure spikes when loaded towards the upper limit.  Any primer change and even different cases or particular bullet design can easily put you over safe pressures when you're operating at the upper limit.   I'd back it down and work up.

[cherokee75]

Castaway, thanks for the input.  I will try backing the powder down since 12.5 was the max. listed for that load.  The reason I started there was due to 12.5 producing a velocity of 1390+ fps and 1300 fps is the recommeded minimum velocity for proper expansion for the bullet according to the website.  I suppose I will just relagate it to a plinking load.  Could you tell me how the high pressure would stop the cylinder from rotating so I know what to look for?  Thanks again.

[Castaway]

Can't talk to the binding cylinder, only speculate.

[Lloyd Smale]

Those loads should be fine in a redhawk  and shouldnt be cause you the problem. Only thing ill add to that is that every gun is a lttle differnt and has different pressure limits but the redhawk is bull strong and should easily digest that load. Id be looking at the rest of what you loaded with the unique. Maybe pull a couple of them and see if you didnt possibly have your powder measure set wrong or didnt seat your primers deap enough.

[cherokee75]

Lloyd Smale, I only loaded the five I shot plus one I kept as "standard" for future loads.  I will check it to see if everything is normal with that some.  I am going to drop the charge down to 11 grains and load five more today and see.  I seemed to have an issue priming them as they did not seat as easy as usual.  I had to try a couple times on two of them as I recall.  They looked like they were all deep enough.  I guess I will see if the problem persists with the new loads.  I have to believe it is something with the load and not the gun.

[Castaway]

I think Lloyd may be on to somethng with the primers.  I was assuming you meant that the binding was the result of firing.  After priming, run your finger over the base of the case.  The primer should be slightly below flush.

[Dusty Miller]

With a heavy load like that your crimp has got to be pretty hefty.  Any chance the bullets were slipping our and causing the binding?

[Lloyd Smale]

dusty I thought of that too but the redhawk has such a long clyinder and wiht those short little bullets theyd about have to have jumped right out of the case to tie the gun up.

[cherokee75]

Lloyd Smale and Dusty, I too thought of the crimp but I am pretty sure they were sufficiently crimped.  Like Lloyd said, I think the bullets would have had to come completely out to bind the cylinder.  I did check the primer on the one round I used for a standard and it was below flush as are the 5 new ones I loaded this morning which I have not fired yet.  I loaded down to 11 grains for these rounds.  I could try to add more crimp but how fine is the line between too much and just right?

[paul105]

Just another thought -- check to see if there is a bur on the firing pin hole in the frame,  or if the firing pin hole is to large. If your original load was a little on the hot side, it might be causing the primer to "flow" onto the bur, or into the enlarged firing pin hole.  You should be able to see this on the fired primer.  The cylinder would probably (but not necessarily) be hard to open if this is the problem.

Paul

[cherokee75]

Took another 5 rounds to the range yesterday and they fired perfectly.  The only thing I did differently was change to 11 grains from 12.5 of Unique.  A co-worker wondered if maybe I had a piece of debris stuck between the chamber and the barrel which bound up the cylinder.  Is that a possibility?

[paul105]

For some reason, I read Blackhawk (single action).  On the Redhawk, debris under the extractor star could cause the problem you describe.  On a S&W, if the cyl starts binding, the first thing I check is a loose ejector rod (not a prob on the Redhawk), and secondly, debris under the ejector star.

Paul

[cherokee75]

paul 105, I never thought to check under there.  Good point!

[Camba]

Have you checked if the cartridge is sized all the way?  I had cases where the cartridge will not go completely in and after firing it it would not rotate easily.

Camba

[papajohn428]

I'd be willing to bet the problem was debris under the extractor star, something to look into if it does it again.  The only other thing I'd check is the primers, and make sure they are large PISTOL primers.  44 Mag brass is cut for pistol primers, rifle primers are deeper and the pockets are made deeper because of it.  Trying to seat a rifle primer in pistol brass is bad news. 

I've also had trouble seating new primers in Sellier & Bellot brass, especially in 44 Mag.  The primers pockets were so tight I would up reaming them out and they were still hard to seat primers in.  That's the only brass I've ever had that problem with, but I have the same problem with ALL OF IT!

Papajohn

[unspellable]

How heavy is that load?  Unique is a fairly fast powder so I would imagine one would reach max pressure before max velocity.

I've been using 10.6 grains of Unique behind a 240 grain cast semi wad cutter for many years in my 6.5 inch S&W.  This produces 1000 fps over the chrony so it's certainly not a max load velocity wise.  It's never given me any trouble of any kind.