Author Topic: TIGHT CYLINDER  (Read 1457 times)

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Offline TRUCKBOSS

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TIGHT CYLINDER
« on: March 26, 2007, 09:32:22 AM »
HI GUYS,i have a freedom arms 454.sluged my bore .453 and have a 320grn WLN.the cylinder is .452 how much does this have to be opened and who would you have do it.also when i open it up do you think it will effect the jacketed bullet accuacy.thanks!

Offline STJ

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Re: TIGHT CYLINDER
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2007, 02:33:26 PM »
I had the same issue with my model 97 in 44sp.  I just used Veral's advise of using a dowel with 180grit emery cloth wrapped around it and spun it with a drill.  Worked perfect with all 5 chambers coming out the same.   Just take your time.  I will say I am a little disappointed that FA guns are so tight the chambers need to be opened a bit...but it is better than too big ;)

Oh yea 1 thou should do the trick...

Offline TRUCKBOSS

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Re: TIGHT CYLINDER
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2007, 07:27:42 PM »
i talked to freedomarms yesterday,they said they would recut the angle in the cylinder but not the open it up,if that makes sense.he said it would help.this gun is just a LBTlead thrower only.what do you guys think.i shot about a 100 round of 320 wln out of it today,had alittle bit of lead about 1/2 long,very small,in the first part of the barrel.the loads range was 900 fps up to 1500 fps,most at about 1000 fps est.the bullets are linotype with a gc.

Offline STJ

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Re: TIGHT CYLINDER
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2007, 09:31:39 AM »
Well for one linotype is too hard to bump up from a smaller throat to a larger bore at those speeds/pressures.  I had a leading problem along the whole bore in my 44.  The opening of the throats fixed that.

Offline Veral

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Re: TIGHT CYLINDER
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2007, 06:11:52 PM »
  All good questions and answers above so I'll leave them posted, with this statement.

  FA has always made tight cylinder throats and barrels considerably larger.  If they are shot as is, loads stout enough to obturate bullets for a tight barrel fit are mandatory to prevent leading, and accuracy is amazingly good, because they line bore their cylinders, which means the bullets get started straight. 

  Everyone who has opened up the throats so bullets at barrel groove diameter or slightly larger could be shot has reported a substantial accuracy improvement, with groups under an inch very common,     at 100 yards,   2 to 3 inches at 100 yards with the small cylinder throats.

  When opening up FA cylinder throats, use some caution that the fatter bullet ammo will not be too large for the chambers, as chambers are held to much tighter tolerances than other gun makers.  The tight chambers is another very important factor in FA accuracy, as they don't let the back of the bullet tip.

  In other brands of revolvers, chambers tend to be much looser, so opening up cylinder throats, where barrels dictate it, helps reduce the amount of bullet base tip on takeoff.  Bear this in mind when adjusting diameters of revolvers.  If chambers are very loose, it may be best to shoot bullets considerably larger than the .001 over groove which I spell out as a standard  recommendation.  The barrel cannot straighten out a cocked bullet, but it can size them down without hurting accuracy too much.

  If one could set up a revolver with perfect dimensions it would go like this.
  1. The barrel would be fire  lapped after installation until groove diameter  is tightest out at the muzzle.
  2. Optimum cylinder throat diameter would be .0005 over groove diameter at the rifling origin.
  3.  Cylinder throat diameter would provide a close slip fit for the bullets.
  4.  Chambers would be just large enough to allow drop in chambering with a clink against the ctg rim, with the gun and ammo clean.  Which means after a bit of shooting rounds would have to be pushed in with very slight resistance.  This close a fit can cause misfires when the gun is dirty if chambering resistence is great enough to hold ctgs back against the breech so that firing pin force is softened too much to pop the cap.

  Of coarse we have to work backwards to fit a production revolver properly, or even to build an all new gun.  I spelled the above out so shooters understand the principles for optimum accuracy, not because it can be done in that order.

 
Veral Smith

Offline STJ

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Re: TIGHT CYLINDER
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2007, 04:00:26 AM »
A little extra I would like to add.  On my 454 the cyl throats, they were about right at bore dia.  But all 5 were not exactly the same.  A few would allow a bullet to push through a little easier than some others, but all had a tight fit with a 0.453 bullet.  After the success of opening my 44 throats I decided to do the same with my 454.  I opened them up to allow a 0.4535 (the bullet were sized to 0.453 but the alloy swells up 0.0005 after sizing)  bullet to barley slip through.  If the bullet is set in the throat it will stay there with a slight tap allowing them to drop through.  The bore is 0.453.

The way I did both was to use a 3/8" dia brass rod with 180 grit and emery cloth 1" strips.  I taped the the emery cloth to the rod instead of splitting the end.  I had no easy way to split the end so I decided to try the tape and it worked fine (I used electrical tap).  I test fit the # of wraps so that I could spin the emery/rod into the throats by hand with a tight fit.  After I got the proper fit, I cut more strips to the exact length.  I started the emery/rod by hand into the throats and then connected the drill.  Start slow until you get a feel for it and test fit the proper size bullet often. Change emery cloth as needed...

Offline Veral

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Re: TIGHT CYLINDER
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2007, 12:28:13 PM »
Thanks for sharing the trick of taping emery to a polishing rod.  I think duck tape would be quite a bit better, but nothing is wrong with electrical tape so long as it holds.

For those wondering how to open cylinder throats, this is an excellent explanation.  Just use the bullets you'll be shooting as a gage and get the fit described above.  If you have more than .001 to remove use 120 grit paper till you get close, then polish a bit with finer, like 180 grit, which is a good enough finish polish.  If you really want the throats to shine.  Polish in steps using 220 grit. and finer down to 320.  Finer than 320  is a waste of time.
Veral Smith