Author Topic: Reloading for .223 Bull Barrel  (Read 1084 times)

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Offline Roudy

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Reloading for .223 Bull Barrel
« on: April 27, 2007, 05:41:26 PM »
Had a chance to do some test firing today with my new .223 bull barrel.  Everything seemed to function well except I kept having a hard time getting the barrel to latch.  Usually took 3-5 attempts before the barrel would lock up. 

I must have been having a senior moment at the time because without a cartridge in the chamber it latches just fine.  When I got home it dawned on me that the bullet must have been seated too far out for this chamber.  The cartridges that I have loaded work well in my Mini Mauser, but I suspect are a little long for the Handi barrel.  Short throat I suspect.

Has anyone else experienced this? 

My plan is to use this rifle for varmint hunting and I would like to use 40-45 grain bullets.  The barrel has a twist rate of 1 turn in 9 inches and I'm curious if anyone has had any success with light bullets in a barrel with this fast twist.  Don't want to spend $15+ for a box of bullets if I'm chasing a wild goose here;  can live with the heavier (50-55 grain) bullets.

Roudy

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Reloading for .223 Bull Barrel
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2007, 05:52:08 PM »
If it has a short throat, it's the first one I've read about here, 223s have notoriously long throats. Make sure the round is flush with the chamber face, that would more likely be the culprit.

The 1:9" twist barrels shoot the same 40-55gr loads as the 1:12" barrels, no difference to speak of, other than the typical barrel to barrel differences between any firearm. A few have shot 68-70gr bullets, but generally the 1:9" has a poor reputation with the longer bullets just as the 1:12" does.

Tim
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Offline peeper1k

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Re: Reloading for .223 Bull Barrel
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2007, 06:04:08 PM »
Roudy:
It's like Quick says about the round being flush with the chamber . . .which can mean several things maybe. . .like a case that needs to have a tad more sizing to set the shoulder back, or like you suspect: a bullet seat situation.  Hmmmm, try a more sized case using the identical OAL.  Do just one thing at a time so  you'll know for future info.  Who knows, it could be a too-long neck, or a base that's wide, . . .so pick them off one at a time.

Offline Roudy

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Re: Reloading for .223 Bull Barrel
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2007, 06:10:58 PM »
Thanks for the info Tim.  I did check to see if the rear of the cartridge was flush with the breech and it 'appeared' to be flush but certainly could have been a few thousandths out.  The problem could also be where I have the shoulder set on my reloads, might set a few back a little and try them. 

Although I really hate to do this I might have to actually buy a box of loaded cartridges and shoot them....haven't bought any centerfire cartridges in over thirty years.  I'll also get some 40 or 45 grain bullets and give them a try.

Roudy

Offline peeper1k

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Re: Reloading for .223 Bull Barrel
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2007, 07:03:17 PM »
Roudy, a comment on your bullet wt for varmints:
I've gotten rid of around 70-80 coyotes around my dad's ranch over the last 25 years with  223's & 22-250's.  Maybe half were done-in with 223's with 1-9's, the others were with 223's with 1-12 and 22-250's with 1-14.  The accurate loads with 45 gr in the 1-9" were hitting Wiley-C at perhaps 2900 fps.  The 45 gr in the 22-250's were impacting at an estimated similar fps, given the fact of the 150 yd longer shots, and the gun's 'accurate' loads.  A half doz of coyotes were hit at perhaps 3300 fps with the  same 45 gr slug.
 
My point is that even tho the 223 1-9 didn't have blazing speed at impact, the high rotational velocity of the bullet doesn't degrade anywhere near as quickly as the the fps does, so the disruption in tissue was much more impressive than the 22-250.
In fact, the 2900 fps hits,  223 ,  1-9,  were more devastating than the  3300fps hits with the 22-250, same bullet, 1-14".    Maybe a different type bullet would give different results, but I sure had enough samples to compare.  So, now I'm a fan of varmint loads using as fast a twist and fps the paper target says is good, and not worrying about max fps.  Push those 45grs to just below where they start to over-stab and you'll be a happy camper, no matter the ultimate velocity.  Wiley C  & Company will be in trouble.  Heck, I won't even get into talking about the 300-400 ground squirrels around the earth dam sent to gs-heaven.   Most turned into small chunks of Red-Tail hawk food.   It felt good to be feeding the local Red-Tails. :P

 

Offline Roudy

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Re: Reloading for .223 Bull Barrel
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2007, 06:10:13 AM »
Peeper, It's interesting that you bring up the point of less than maximum velocity loads.  I've been loading the .223 for several years for a Mini Mauser and have settled on the most accurate load.  For the Mini Mauser that turns out to be a 55 grain bullet with 21.0 grains for IMR 4198.  I know this is not at maximum pressure and I'm not sure of the velocity, somewhere around 2900-3000 fps I think.

I never thought about the spin of the bullet having an impact on a target, but it does make sense to me.

Roudy

Offline McLernon

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Re: Reloading for .223 Bull Barrel
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2007, 09:36:55 AM »
My recipe to replace the WWB ammo is 40 gr Nosler BT over 27.5 gr of H335. This is a top load so work up to it.

Mc

Offline McLernon

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Re: Reloading for .223 Bull Barrel
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2007, 11:25:53 AM »
If you calculate the rotational energy and compare it to the translational energy it's diddly.


The damage is from forward velocity ::)

Mc ;D

Offline peeper1k

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Re: Reloading for .223 Bull Barrel
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2007, 08:57:16 PM »
Well, forward vel, and lots of it, does do wonders.  But just like the saying " Hell hath No Fury Like A Woman Scorned" , we shouldn't underestimate the rotational energy that 200,000 rpms can do. . much less 100,000.  Fast spinning buls are like a woman scorned. ;D

The armed forces did many, many tests during the development of the 22 cal before its adoption.  One of the biggest issues was dealing with the fmj, small cal, small hole, but trying to figure out how to get more effectiveness.  The Russians had MUCH better effectiveness with their 22, according to our intel/ reports about THEIR 'Afgan problem.  Turns out they had a slower vel than ours,  a much slower fps, but much faster twist and an internally "unstable" bullet, meaning that inside their fmj the point was somewhat empty, giving a rearward cg.  Smart buggers.  The bullet tumbled after penetration, and the rpms, tho stabilizing the bullet for flight, did the opposite after tissue contact/ penetration.  Imagine a 30,000 Dremel-bit gone amuck in a hole versus a 3,000 rpm drill bit in the same hole.  The Dremel goes berserko during its de-stab.  Ok, not a good analogy, but it does illustrate what high rpms can do, and a speeding bul is at a much faster rate then a Dremel.  The higher rate of twist made hell break loose faster once the gyro got bumped, so to speak.

Like you mention tho, more forward vel is better, and really, without lots of it a 22 cal is a like a gnat. . .noisy and mostly just bothersome.  But high rpms, high speeds, varmints = 0.. . .   . . .and well, more is better.  Yeah, we want MORE.   ;D

Offline Roudy

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Re: Reloading for .223 Bull Barrel
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2007, 06:19:17 AM »
Well I think I have found and resolved the problem with hard breech closing.  Took my cases and full length re-sized them in an RCBS Small Base die then trimmed to 1.75 inches.  They chamber with ease and the action locks shut readily with no undo force.

Now to find the most accurate load for this rifle, I have four different bullets and three different powders, surely there is a combination that will make itty bitty groups.

Roudy

 

Offline stimpylu32

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Re: Reloading for .223 Bull Barrel
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2007, 08:00:58 AM »
Roudy

My 223 BB seams to favor the 50 to 55 grain bullets over the 40 to 45 grain , The 53gr Sierra HPs and the 55gr V-max doing the best with both IMR 4895 and H 4895 , Benchmark and H380 did not work well at all with any bullet in this cal.

Some have had real good luck with BLC2 and Varget for the 223 . My best load will get me under 1" @ 200 any day .

stimpy
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Offline GregP42

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Re: Reloading for .223 Bull Barrel
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2007, 12:10:18 PM »

My best reloads in the .223 were with IMR4198 and the V-Max 55gr bullets, R-P cases and CCI BR-4 primers, they were shooting 2" to 2"1/4" at 300 all day long if I would do my part, at 100 it was just a large ragged hole.

Greg
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Offline Inrut24/7

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Re: Reloading for .223 Bull Barrel
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2007, 01:24:01 PM »
24.5 grains h322, 50 grain V-max, rem brass, cci small rifle primer, puts em in a dime out of my 1-12 your 1-9 might like em too.

Offline dw06

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Re: Reloading for .223 Bull Barrel
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2007, 02:03:17 PM »
Roudy,Had same problem with my 223,after firing 3 times should needed to be set back just a bit so I took a few fired cases and turned sizing die down just a bit and did that till rifle would close pretty easy.Mine likes 50gr bullets so well that I never got around to tryiny 55gr bullets.Did try a couple loads with 40gr v-max and they looked promising so may try them again when I get time.
If you find yourself in a hole,the first thing to do is stop digging-Will Rogers

Offline chino69

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Re: Reloading for .223 Bull Barrel
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2007, 02:46:46 AM »
Well I think I have found and resolved the problem with hard breech closing.  Took my cases and full length re-sized them in an RCBS Small Base die then trimmed to 1.75 inches.  They chamber with ease and the action locks shut readily with no undo force.

Now to find the most accurate load for this rifle, I have four different bullets and three different powders, surely there is a combination that will make itty bitty groups.

Roudy

 

Well, I just got my .223 1-9" barrel back from the factory and mine shoots 55 grn. V-Maxes with 24.9 grn.s of IMR4895 into five shot one hole groups @100 yds.  The bullets are seated off the lands a full .103 which I discovered by accident.  It doesn't get much better than getting a $200 single shot rifle to perform like this.
Chino69