Help!!! About the .357 Maxie ......

[Couger]

Hello Experienced .357 Maxie Shooters ......

Can anyone familiar with this cartridge please help me with the following questions?  I thank you in advance:

1).   What barrel length do you think is the minimum required length necessary for the .357 Maximum to shoot to its full potential?

16  inches

18  inches?

20  inches?


2).   What do you think is the .357 Maxie's effective range on deer?

75  yards?

100  yards??

150  yards?

3).  What weight of bullet do you like to shoot at deer or game?


Thank you!   

[Couger]

Help!!  Anyone??!!

[Datil]

 Hello Couger. I don't know a min length barrel barrel Mine is still 22 in.
 I would say about 150 yards, from my experience and what I have read
 here from other people. Marv.

[LaOtto222]

What barrel length do you think is the minimum required length necessary for the .357 Maximum to shoot to its full potential?

I think you are having trouble getting replies because the questions are too wide open. I will attempt an answer you are looking for. A 22 long rifle's full velocity is ~16 inches, a 17 HMR is in the 18-19 inch area. I would think that a 357 maximum would be in the 22 to 24 inch range based on powder volume. When you cut back the length then you sacrifice velocity for handiness but gain barrel stiffness and lose some weight. Personally I am a proponent of short barrels. It is a matter of personal choice. How much velocity do you want to give up for the weight savings and quickness? In rifles of this caliber and powder capacity I would think you would lose some where around 30 FPS for every inch cut off. You can look at it from the other way. Add FPS for every inch added to a pistol. I did not give you an estimate for the pistol length because it will gain more FPS in the first few inches past a pistol length barrel. You would not know for sure until you run them over a crony, it is just an estimate. It would also depend on the powder you are using, the bullet weight, crimp and how much jump you have to the rifling. My advice is to choose the length you want to use and do it. If by estimating you are not in the range you want to be in, then get a different cambering/caliber. I have a 221 REM fire ball that had a 24 inch varmint weight barrel. I sacrificed velocity for a weight trade off and cut 6 inches off. I estimated mine by comparing a 10 inch barrel to a 14 inch barrel. It suits me fine, it still out shoots a Hornet. If I want more velocity, I have a 222 and a couple of 223s to choose from.

What do you think is the .357 Maxie's effective range on deer?

It has been said over and over that you need 1000 ft# of energy to kill deer reliably. Of course we all know that bullet placement and construction are important too, probably more important than the 1000 ft# of energy. Range is dependent on bullet velocity and drop of the bullet. When you have a good idea what your velocity is and the bullet's drag, you can estimate the range by drop tables and how much terminal energy you will have. The rest is up to you. Do you want a 100 yd zero, 75 yard zero? Zero it in at the range that best suits you and knowing the drop will tell you what the range is. For deer I would think you would limit your range to no more that 3 inches drop beyond a 100 yd zero. If you are varmint or coyote shooting then I stretch it some because it does not take as much energy to do its job and if I miss, it is not the end of the world. In Indiana, where I am from, we can not use rifles for deer (yet), we must use shot gun slugs (can be rifled barrels), muzzle loaders or bows. My experience shooting deer with center fire rifles is zero. Just my 2 cents BTW the picture in my post is a 357 MAG that I shoot cut off 357 max brass in. I have set the bullets out to 357 MAX length and load to MAX charge weights. I have not done extensive testing, but have found heavier bullets shoot better than light ones (darn it!). I can't use it for deer, I was hoping to use it for a walk around varmint gun/plinker with light bullets.

[Couger]

Thanks fellas.

LaOtto, you may be right about my questions being too open ended, but hence to cause for "discussion!" 

I agree with the philosophy behind your answers and you're correct about bbl lengths for the two rimfires.  I'm a big believer in the .22LR and while not even a dabbler in the .17 Hummer, have studied it to better know the .22 WMR.

However optimum bbl length for the .357 Maxie I would think would woul be no longer than 22 inches (and probably less) because it is a straight-walled case with an ample expansion ratio.  I have always thought optimum bble length for the .357 Maximum would be between 18 to 22 inches and probably closer to 19-21 inches.  My whole goal is to determine the (somewhat) perfekt length but no more!

I run into shooters and their opinions who seem enamoured with 16 inch tubes in a whole range of catridges and their uses, but my questions about the .357 Maximum were to try and learn from others' experiences where they found the "balance" between 'not too much of this to too little of that'.  For myself I've decided anything shorter than 20 inches or even 21 or 22 inches in the .223R, .222 and .221 Fireball (in a rifle) and I'm sacrificing performance.  Funny you would mention the Fireball as it is on my list of Encore barrels to get, if not rebarrel my .223 to that round.

Plus I like those evil black rifles Jim Zumbo disparaged.  Most times I wouldn't want an AR with a barrel less than 20 inches which is the length that round was designed around!

But a straight-walled case like the .357 Maximum ..... I'm thinking I will try to draw "data" from what seems to work well with the .45 Colt, .45/70 and other rounds similar to them - without sacrificing performance and creating excessive muzzle blast (if I chopped a barrel that short!!).  Of course there's the whole issue of trying and selecting the correct gun powders too!  Which may prove to be the biggest factor in this whole deal.

A general rule of mine I tend to like shorter (vs longer) barrels for shotguns for field use (not the trap range, but the bird "range").  Howqever I'm just the opposite when I select the "optimum rifle package."

I like longer rifle barrels - usually.  But in a .357 Maximum I would limit bbl length to 22 inches if not chop it down to 21 or 20 no less than 19 - 18 1/2 inches.  The purposes I'd shoot .357 Maxie's include from a tree stand for deer (at normal ranges 50 to 150 yards), or as a truck gun or 'back up' to a .357 Magnum revolver (a camp gun or hiking gun).  I know the .357 Maximum excels best when staying with that ammo and cartridge, but it is versatile and safe enough to allow shooting 'Magnums' and .38 Specials althogh accuracy would like suffer substantially.

Before leaving the idea for the "ideal .357 Maxie barrel" I realize some folks will want to shoot that round in a rifle in the smallest, most compact package they can!  Which would require chopping a barrel to as close to 16 inches as they can and still be 'legal.' 

For a survival, or truck, or back-packing gun those would each have their place.  And personal preferences are VERY FUNNY THINGS!

Range performance   --  The idea to compare bullet perfomance to remaining foot-pounds of killing energy is probably the most-measureable method folks could agree on.  Before you mentioned the '1000-fpe convention' when deeming what's an ethical deer-killing round, I had forgottern about that convention - altho I have used it before! (when using .223Rem reloads to bag my deer).

To wrap this up I will probably settle on 20 inches if I chop my Handi barrel, selecting to reload with the slowest powder I can that will be that perfekt balance between powder volume versus velocity when shooting 180 - 200 - 220 grain bullets.

Also there is a small following of the .357 Maximum who shoot it in Contenders or Encores, and if shooting a HR didn't quite satisfy an itch, I could always settle on 21 or 19 inches if 20 inches wasn't close to "perfekt."

But thanks for your comments and inputs!

[jbtazgrabber]

about 10 years ago i got heavy into the maxes.....i only use imr 227 powder....158 gr. xtp bullets.....i had one with a 22 in barrel....the speed was slower than with a 13 in barrel...my barrel is 19 in now,,,using my crony that was the fastest .....but i have shot a buddies h110 loads and they are faster than mine so a longer barrel might be needed,,,,,,,,i have posted the speeds before but my book is in another state right now......if your going to be shooting deer that are over 100 pounds use the 180 gr, bullet the biggest deer i shot took a max behind the shoulder and went to never never land it was shoot at 75 yards.....but it is great if its on 100 pound and smaller.............i now use the 445 and havent lost or tracked a deer since............knock on wood,,,,,,,jb