Author Topic: Need some help with these Handi's PLEASE  (Read 478 times)

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Offline hunter

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Need some help with these Handi's PLEASE
« on: May 18, 2007, 05:39:09 AM »
First of I'm embarrassed to say I've just learned of this embarrassed a few days ago. I'm joining a hunting lease in Mississippi and while reading their hunting regs. i hound this was 1 type of rifle that could be used for pirimtive weapon season. Since then I've read several hundred post about Handi's on this forum. Know i have the bug also, thinks to you all. I also do alot of reloading. the 45-70 isa 1 that i load for my T/C encore. In these loads i use ruger #1 load data. My question is will the Handi's handle those kind of pressure. I have never seen load data for this rifle. I'm going to buy 2 Handi's a 45-70 and a 45 colt. I use the ruger data for my 45 colt. Any input I can get from u guys and gals would much welcomed. Would hate to ruin a new rifle with a load that was to hot foe it. Thank you all in advance. ;D

Hunter
always be safe and pass it on to a young hunter

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Need some help with these Handi's PLEASE
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2007, 06:08:25 AM »
The Handi will stand the pressure if your body will!! ;D Recoil is usually the limiting factor for 45-70 load levels, but if you want to go there, have at it. The Handi is factory available in 500S&W which has a SAAMI MAP of 60kpsi, working level pressures are above 50kpsi which is in the 45-70 Ruger data pressure levels and associated case head thrust.

The 45 Colt Carbine(not to be confused with the 45/410 Survivor) will handle the Ruger/FA levels as well, Im shooting max loads of lil'gun with 250gr Gold dots in mine at over 1900fps with excellent accuracy. ;)

Other contenders for the MS primitive season, are the 444 Marlin, 44 Mag, 500S&W and 38-55 Target. ;)

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline stimpylu32

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Re: Need some help with these Handi's PLEASE
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2007, 06:11:32 AM »
Hunter

The handi may take the Ruger loads for awhile , but it will sucome to the problems that either the under lug will be wore in or the frame will streach resulting in sloppy fit and a bad head space problem . not to think what it will do to your sholder being a light rifle .

For safety reasons its best to stay in the trapdoor to mid-lever gun loads and leave the super HOT stuff to a better designed fire arm .

stimpy
Deceased June 17, 2015


:D If i can,t stop it with 6 it can,t be stopped

Offline wcf3030

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Re: Need some help with these Handi's PLEASE
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2007, 06:17:44 AM »
Unless there are Rhinos and Cape Buffalo on your lease you will not need the Ruger loads.  ;)
Good luck!!
"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it."

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Need some help with these Handi's PLEASE
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2007, 06:19:11 AM »
Stimpy makes a good point, there have been several reported 500S&Ws, and other high pressure barrels for that matter, that shot loose on the frame, as he stated, the undlerlug is the weak point on an SB2 frame and will set back with extended high pressure use. I bought a used 500S&W barrel that was this way, it was loose on over 20 of my frames. :-\

I don't recall any 45-70s shooting loose, but like we said, most don't like the recoil, so they stay in trapdoor and mid level levergun loads. That said, H&R is good about replacing those barrels that shoot loose if you have a factory fitted barrel.

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline hunter

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Re: Need some help with these Handi's PLEASE
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2007, 07:18:09 AM »
Thanks for the quitk replies guys. With what you2 told me I think i'll hold the 45-70 to Marlin 1895 load data. It is mid range stuff. As to the recoil, I have the Katana 47-50 barrel(think it's 16.5") w/the syn.stock. it's a very light rifle so recoil is up and i have no problem shooting it. Again thinks and please anone else feel free to chime in and tell me your thoughts .
always be safe and pass it on to a young hunter

Offline edgemark

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Re: Need some help with these Handi's PLEASE
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2007, 07:26:45 AM »
SNIP

I don't recall any 45-70s shooting loose, but like we said, most don't like the recoil, so they stay in trapdoor and mid level levergun loads. That said, H&R is good about replacing those barrels that shoot loose if you have a factory fitted barrel.

Tim

Is it the barrel that stretches or is it the action?

edge.

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Need some help with these Handi's PLEASE
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2007, 08:35:41 AM »
I've shot a 300WSM barrel on a modern SB2 frame with no change to the frame, but frames older then '99 are subject to frame damage due to them not being heat treated to the same strength as current production, and the reason H&R won't fit high pressure barrels to them.

But current frames will flex which was evident after shooting mid level loads in the 300WSM, there would be a noticable gap, probably ~.005", between the barrel and frame after the shot, before the brass was ejected. Case head thrust would flex the frame enough that after the pressure released, the brass had expanded to the rear enough to not completely go back into the chamber causing the gap. Surprisingly, the brass did eject fine, which usually sticks when that happens in standard chambered H&R when hot loads are encountered.

I suspect that extended shooting of hot loads would likely cause the frame to fail eventually due to metal fatigue, although no one has ever reported that. The previous owner shot about 100 rounds thru the 300WSM, some factory loads, and the rest handloads during load work. The frame was not damaged and other barrels that were originally fitted to that frame still fit fine. But the underlug was set back and was loose on his frame, and it wouldn't lock up tight on any of my frames, and I have a lot!! I improved the underlug to eliminate that issue, and it worked, see Underlug Improvement in the FAQs. That underlug is at my gunsmith's shop now for welding to a Shilen match 6.5mm blank to become a 6.5x55 custom Ultra. ;D

The frame that I shot about 50 rounds of the 300WSM showed no apparent damage and the original barrel still locks up good on it. So, in my experience with modern frames, they flex with hot high pressure loads, but I've not experienced any change or damage. That's not to say that extended use at high pressures isn't going to cause a problem sooner or later.

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline edgemark

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Re: Need some help with these Handi's PLEASE
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2007, 08:42:40 AM »
Good info, thanks  :)

edge.