Cannons and Cops

[Farmer Dean]

Does anyone have any stories or advice about cannon firing legalities/rights. I understand that laws vary widely from state to state and even county to county. I guess I'm just looking for some generalities. What can you get in trouble for?

Specifically I live in a rural unincorporated area of California on acreage. If someone was aching to write me up, what might it be for? There is no noise ordinance where I live and assuming I'm not firing at midnight - am I good to go?

It's not a firearm and it's not a firework. It's legal to possess black powder. Common law nuisance? Anyone had any run-ins? Signed, Paranoid.

[radio2]

How big of a cannon, Are you firing ball or blanks, how close is the nearest hose from you?

[Farmer Dean]

Six Pounder, Full size 3.5" bore. 6 oz. powder. Blanks. Nearest house one mile. Haven't had a problem, but just wanted to be ready with 'rights', because it sure makes a noise! Dean

[GGaskill]

In the Ca SSR, you are limited to 5 lbs possession of black powder unless you have a special permit which is available from the county fire marshall (I have heard.)  Also, you are limited to 1 lb in a vehicle, although apparently the permit can override that limit also.

 As far as firing the gun, it probably is regulated by local rules.  I am not aware of statewide rules on the subject, although it wouldn't surprise me if there are some.  Spend some time browsing the Attorney General's website and see what you can find.

[Rickk]

Every state is different... best to check the state laws in California.

In Massachusetts, you can fire a gun of any type 150 feet from an  improved road, or 500 feet from a dwelling (unless you have permission from the dwelling owner, then as close as you want).

They might be able to charge you in Mass with disturbing the peace if it was too early or too late... same as playing your stereo too loud.

If you are shooitng blanks in a pre-1898 gun in Massachusetts, it gets really vague. It's not a gun, because there is no projectile. A cop might assume it is, and you might get into trouble, or maybe not. ... test case time. It just hasn't come up yet, so there is no clear law about it.

There may be some grounds for religious expression (which is one of the reasons that black powder can be shipped to your house) or "signalling device" (thank the coast guard for prohibiting regulation of signaling devices). It all gets sorta fuzzy with a pre-1898 gun.

So, in Massachusetts anyway, if you are more than 500 feet from a house without permission to be near, and over 150 feet from an "improved road", you are pretty much clear sailing as far as distance. (There are some other Massachusetts regulations dealing with fire department regs that I will avoid discussing).

There are a couple of towns in Massachusetts that have "discharge of firearm" homerules... mostly heavily populated areas near Boston. I have no idea if a cannon with blanks would be affected. I doubt anyone but  a jury would know. If there is a ball in it, it probably would be affected, but you wouldn't wanna shoot a cannon with a ball in it it downtown heavily civilized areas anyway.

Once again, every state is different. You gotta check state and local laws. I am sure there is a California gun owners action group. Find their web site and look for links to state laws in California.

If you are any sort of terms with the local PD, I guess a call would prevent them from going out and looking for the source of the explosions should they be called in. Before doing that, I would make sure you were legal per Ca rules first, so you don't provide evidence to convict yourself.

[Cat Whisperer]

OK

Local laws, state and federal laws.

Such a variety!

Keep it SAFE, LEGAL, fun and polite.  Those are 4 fundamental rules of THIS forum.

(Although contradicted by some folk's    long-standing tradition, it's NOT what you might be able to get away with, but what is RIGHT and doing what WILL keep you from being arrested.)

Many law-enforcement officers are not knowledgeable of specific laws related to black-powder mortars and cannons.  BUT they may well be VERY knowledgeable about specific laws about Disturbing the Peace and Discharging a gun within City Limits.

Let's NOT give them opportunity.  It's an easy thing to do - get to know your law-enforcement folks and your local politicians!  If you volunteer for certain public-service jobs, there are great pay-offs by being KNOWN in your community as a reputable person.  (I am the Chair of the town's Board of Zoning Appeals; that has put me into a role inside the community, appointed by a Judge, therefore known in the community publicly - which is a great basis by which to be known.)  It also has put me into direct contact with the City Council and the Planning Commission. 

[intoodeep]

Cannon? No Sir! Gun? No Sir! Then what is it? Sir, it's an antique seeding machine......     

Just kiddin.  As, CW stated "Keep it SAFE, LEGAL, fun and polite". That's the best way. You may be able to search your counties/state  website for areas of noise and discharge of firearms.

 Here's the link for AG's website as "GGaskill" mentioned.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/

[Don Krag]

Here in TX, assuming you are out of city limits, there's a few that can get you into big trouble.

Discharge of any weapon across a public right of way or water right of way.
Shooting within 300' of a public road.
Causing a projectile to cross a property line without the express written consent of the property owner. (felony, targeted at people indiscriminately shooting into the air during holidays)
I was also told that shooting one during a fireworks/burn ban could lead to issues, although I never got a final answer.

Then of course the usual county noise ordinances. For here, 10pm and later someone can call the local sheriff's dept if you're being too noisy, although we usually just walk over and say "hey...quiet down!"

[Farmer Dean]

Thanks for the links provided, I think I've got the situation figured out in California. It appears to be very similar to many other states. It's not a firearm, firework or destructive device. If it's pre-1899 (including replicas) and ammunition is not readily available from a commercial outlet and you don't fire anything that explodes, then you're off the radar. Barring noise ordinances, if you don't shoot after 10 PM you won't risk a disturbing the peace charge. If you have less than 5lbs of powder then the Sheriff and Fire Marshal are off your back.

I've armed myself with copies of all of these code sections. This all started when a local Fire Official said I couldn't fire my cannon because he considered it a firework. My State Fire Marshal in Sacramento clarified that one (no it's not). I'm not trying to get cocky; non-confrontational is my creed, however I'm not going to let someone, of authority, who's unclear of regulations, put a damper on ALL THIS FUN!

[lendi]

At Duck Island Cannon Works we refer to our cannons as "Personal Saluting Devices".  Sundown is always an appropriate time to for one to salute the day.
Len