Author Topic: Range Report - .35 Whelen (Read 1193 times)

jmack · « **on:** May 19, 2007, 07:12:58 PM »

Well, I finally got my whelen in today. I didn't think my gunsmith would ever get it finished... Here's the stats - NEF Handi Rifle, .35 whelen, 22in standard contour barrel, Choate aftermarket monte carlo style synthetic stock, Nikon Prostaff 3x9x40mm scope, standard rings and base, Limbsavers grind to fit recoil pad with some fiberglass for fitting, 200gr Remington Core-lokt ammunition. So I gets myself to the range and do a first cleaning. Then shoot and lightly clean after each round. Right off the bat, I put three rounds into one tiny ragged hole 3in high at 50yds. I'm surprised that recoil is almost nonexistant with just the aftermarket recoil pad. It is considerably less than my previous Remington m700 .270 with no recoil pad. I then set up a 100yd target, and first shot was 2in high and 4in right. I am confident in my ability so I adjust now(4in left only, I want to leave it high at 100), lightly clean, and fire. 0in high, 4in left now. Lighty clean again, let cool for a moment, adjust 2in right, fire. I am now 2in high, 2in right. (Side note, I have had 3 misfires by now. There was obvious soild contact between firing pin and primer, so I am unsure if this was due to known headspace issues with Remington ammo.) The barrel is getting pretty hot, and I know I should let it cool, but this is a new rifle, and I want to shoot. I try for a group, and get a 3in 5 shot group (center shot was the 2in high/2in right) at 100yds with a now very hot barrel. I am an inexperienced shooter, but this seems to be excellent accuracy to me. I was done for the day, cleaned my rifle and went home. I do have a few questions though. Do you guys think I would still benefit from doing the o ring thing to the forearm? Also, I am unsure about the whole barrel breakin thing, I've read that it kills barrel life. Should I not be cleaning after every shot? When I did, I just ran a bore brush down the barrel, and then wrapped it with a patch and ran several that way until clean. Once or twice I used some Remington bore cleaner, and then some Remington oil, followed by a dry patch. What does copper fouling look like? All I saw was black on the patches. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 20, 2007, 01:17:10 AM »

If you have copper fouling you will see copper traces in the bore after you clean it up with your patches. If you ask 50 people how they clean their bores, you will get 50 different answers. With that said...I do not notice copper fouling it until after I clean the powder fouling out. Look down the muzzle with a light after you have cleaned out most of the powder fouling. If you do not see copper traces in the rifling and or lands, chances are good that you do not have copper fouling. I have used Remington bore cleaner in the past. I have quit using it. It does have a heavy grit in it that some say score the bore. I use a jag and patches. Once in a while I do use a plastic brush and if the copper fouling is bad, I use a foam followed up with patches. I use REM oil every where but the bore. I use Kano Micro Oil for that. If the copper fouling is still there I reapply the foam. I like the idea of not having to scrub the bore to clean out the fouling. BTW unless it is a hand lapped barrel, I usually polish the bore with Flitz, JB Bore Bright or Mothers Metal Polish or a combination of the aforementioned before firring the first shot down the barrel. Some say that it takes several hundred rounds to clean up the bore. I think that polishing the bore takes that away, so it may shorten barrel life a little, but I probably will not notice and I get more quality shooting through it's life. Barrel life is more dependent on the cartridge fired. Barrel life for a 6mm-284 is going to be shorter than a 223 due to erosion in the throat area. I think it cuts down on the break in period and helps with copper/lead fouling. I have used this treatment on barrels that have been fired and cooper foul bad too. It would be great if the point of impact stayed the same out of clean barrel as a dirty one. Some guns I have do that. Some do not. You can only find that out by trying. Clean up the bore just like you cleaned it up for long storage and fire a round. Keep firing at the same point and see if the bullets walk. From a cool barrel do the same thing with a dirty bore. Over several tests, you will find out if a clean bore or a dirty bore is best and how dirty it should be. Just my 2 cents worth. I am sure there will be several others weigh in on this. Good luck with your 35 Whelen, it is a great cartridge that will take anything on the North American Continent.

BANG_OW · « **Reply #2 on:** May 20, 2007, 09:44:12 AM »

While I have ZERO experience with the Handi rifles in .35 Whelen, I have enjoyed hunting with the round in Remington firearms, a 700 classic bolt and 7600 pump. I found the 200 gr bullets to be the least accurate of the three readily available factory loads. I've had the best performance with the Federal 225 gr Bear Claw load, in both accuracy and in game. Give them a try and let us know.
Don

Sourdough · « **Reply #3 on:** May 20, 2007, 10:41:36 AM »

I've had many factory loads fail to fire. Never had one of my reloads fail. I shoot the Nosler 225gr Partition. Good for knocking down Moose at close ranges. And devastating on Black Bears at 15 to 20 yards.

mattparliament · « **Reply #4 on:** May 20, 2007, 12:06:27 PM »

jmack~

when I got my whelen I first tried the same loads you are, just to tinker and get some brass. I had the same problems, sub par accuracy and several misfires. It seems to be a brass issue from Remington. I've measure fired-formed brass from the chamber and the chamber is to whelen spec. My reloads however had fantastic accuracy. As far as your cleaning procedures I don't see any problem with what you're doing. And seriously barrel life concerns in a big boom caliber like the whelen is non-issue for me, it's not like thousands of rounds will be going down that tube like the 223's, that's just me though. I don't know if you reload or not but the whelen truly shines to the handloader. I get great accuracy and 2800 fps with a barnes TSX 225 grainer, quick does a tad better with his longer barrel. My 2 cents.

Matt

jmack · « **Reply #5 on:** May 21, 2007, 03:24:17 AM »

This is my problem, I live in an apartment, and have no room for a reloading bench nor much room to put the equipment. I suppose I could use the kitchen table, but the consensus seems to be that you need a separate room for reloading. I've got a few boxes of old Remington High Velocity ammo that I'm going to try next, then I might try to find some of the Federal stuff. When it comes to polishing the barrel, everyone seems to go with Flitz or JB bore compound. Is there anything special about these polishes? Will any metal polish from Wal-Mart work in the same fashion?

mattparliament · « **Reply #6 on:** May 21, 2007, 04:47:11 AM »

yup, all polishes of that nature work about the same. When I lived in an apartment and reloaded I bolted my press and powder measure on a 2x4 and when I used them I used a 6" C-clamp to clamp them on the counter, worked for me, easy and portable. Just an idea that may work for ya.

Matt

myarmor · « **Reply #7 on:** May 21, 2007, 07:01:44 AM »

Something you might want to consider to get yourself started and with minimal amount of room is the Lee Hand press and a set of dies. That with a pound of powder, a couple pack of primers, box of bullets and a few small tools and you would be in business. Of course a loading manual too, in case you have never reloaded before.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=624416

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=592312

-Aaron

jmack · « **Reply #8 on:** May 21, 2007, 08:50:21 AM »

Would a collet die work in the Lee hand press? I've read that the collet dies produce the best accuracy, and that they would eliminate the need for case trimming or lubing.

myarmor · « **Reply #9 on:** May 21, 2007, 10:25:16 AM »

Should work just fine, but I don't believe Lee makes a Collet die for the Whelen $:-\$
They won't eliminate the need to trim, but I have found the decrease the amount you need to. Over time and repeated firings brass stretches and there is only one direction for it to grow, forward...

jmack · « **Reply #10 on:** May 21, 2007, 10:50:59 AM »

I've done some looking around, seems like Lee used to make a collet die for the .35 whelen, but it has been recently discontinued. I've seen lots of websites selling them though. If i do start reloading, I'll only be loading for this one caliber. Do I really need one of the big reloading manuals? I've seen on midwayusa's website that they sell caliber specific loadbooks, and claim that they include all
major manufacturer's products. Would this be a better option for a person just loading one caliber?

mattparliament · « **Reply #11 on:** May 21, 2007, 11:59:53 AM »

jmack~

I have a set of the collet dies for the whelen and they work just fine. If this is the ONLY caliber you're loading for the loadbook you mention would be just the ticket. If not, hodgdon's manual can be had for about $8 and it's a great resource.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** May 21, 2007, 12:09:02 PM »

If you're gonna get the Hodgdon Annual, look for a 2006, the 2007 dropped a bunch of cartridges including the Whelen. Their online page has lots of data for Hodgdon, IMR and some Winchester powders, I'd spend money on the LoadbookUSA first. If you're gonna get a manual, get the Lyman 48th, it's one of the best to start with, and it does have Whelen data.

Tim

http://data.hodgdon.com/

DakotaElkSlayer · « **Reply #13 on:** May 22, 2007, 09:25:41 PM »

Ya, keep your eyes open on Ebay for the Lee Collet dies... That's where I got mine, along with the factory crimp for around $10. Now, I just need to get the rifle!

Jim

jmack · « **Reply #14 on:** May 23, 2007, 04:23:04 PM »

I went back to the range today. I got some of the mothers metal polish and tried polishing the bore... It must be a finer polish than the flitz stuff because I polished it two sepperate times, but couldn't tell any difference by looking down the bore. It did change my point of impact drastically however. Accuracy was better, but not by much at all, I probably need to do a much more thorough job. I took off my forearm piece and shot better, so I'm going to have to work on that. The Remington ammo is all junk. 12 rounds out of a box of 20 were misfires. I feel horrible seeing as I bought 4 boxes of the stuff. Atleast I'm getting a few rounds a box out of them. I assume the headspace is correct on these few rounds that do fire, and can be reloaded with confidence? Funny how some work and some don't. I would think it an all or nothing kind of deal, shame on Remington for poor quality control. I guess I need to head to the FAQ's to figure some of this out. There is a little bit of side to side wiggle when the action is open, but is solid as a rock when locked up. Is this normal, or am I looking at a shim job also?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** May 23, 2007, 05:11:49 PM »

Try a thin shim tween the forend and spacer to tighten the action when open, it's not normal, but happens sometimes, it doesn't usually take much to tighten it up, .002" to .006" or so should work. I use aluminum furnace tape cuz it's stable, water won't affect it, can be used with or without the backing to find out how much you need. If you use too much, the action will be stiff to open. Trim it just slightly smaller than the shape of the spacer and it won't show.

Tim

jmack · « **Reply #16 on:** May 24, 2007, 08:05:27 AM »

I have a Choate synthetic stock, so I won't be able to shim it in that fashion. I went and got a few o-rings to try, I put a 9/16" x 3/8" x 3/32" in and the forearm snugged up like there was nothing in there. I then tried a 9/16 x 5/16 x 1/8, and had the same problem. Even when I have both o-rings on at the same time, The forearm at the very front still snugs up at the barrel. Is this why you put business cards or popsicle sticks there? Will it hurt anything to have both o-rings on there together, or does this provide too much pressure? There is alot of empty space cut out of the synthetic forearm also, would it be advantageous to fill all these areas with silicone caulking? I'm unsure if this would be a viable bedding, but my logic tells me it would work. Any ideas on this?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #17 on:** May 24, 2007, 08:47:23 AM »

Is it the choate varmint or standard syn stock? Either way, contact H&R or Choate directly and ask for a forend that will tighten the action when open, others have had to do exactly that.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,109848.msg1098329373.html#msg1098329373

jmack · « **Reply #18 on:** May 24, 2007, 04:17:45 PM »

I can send the forearm piece back to Choate for a replacement for free, but is that really necessary? I've read a few posts where the consensus was, "that's just how a synthetic stock fits." Or, "as long as it's tight when locked up, then that's all that matters." Will it being lose while open affect the rifle in the future? I've also just seen some warnings to not go past the muzzle when polishing. Why is this? I've polished twice, although just at the range, and not very thoroughly at all, but I did push the patch out past and pull back through the muzzle. I just looked at the crown, and there is a tiny ring where I have maybe polished the bluing off. It might have come this way, I'm not sure... Is that bad? Anyways, back to the forearm. I'd rather not send it off as I am impatient, and have just gotten my rifle after a long wait. Also any thoughts on filling the forearm with silicone? I haven't seen any other posts where this has been done or asked about for reference. I am ignorant, so I apologize for all the simpleton's questions... A thought on pressure points in the forearm after free floating the barrel - Why does this not defeat the purpose of free floating? I do not understand the logic of floating and providing a point of constant contact. Should it not be one or the other? Would a bead of silicone or some other secure medium not be better suited for said pressure point? It seems to me that a business card or popsicle stick would move or rattle under recoil. As I said, I am ignorant so please bear with me. Many more questions soon to come...

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** May 24, 2007, 04:43:35 PM »

Being loose when open isn't gonna hurt anything, but it also may affect accuracy. I like forends to fit just barely snug when you installed them, the easier it slips in place, the more it's likely to be loose when open. But each rifle is different, what works on one, may not be good for another.

I've not worked with the standard syn stocks much, I don't care for them much, I only have a couple rimfires with them, and one centerfire out of 32 H&Rs. I've had pretty good luck using a pressure point near the front of the forend on the wood/lam stocks, you may be able to do the same thing filling the void in the forend with RTV, then using a pressure point. I use refrigerator magnet material, it's cheap and seems to be the right thickness to put just enough pressure to eliminate most of the vertical stringing in several rifles I've tried it on.

Good luck, be sure to let us know how the forend work goes, I'll add it to the FAQs if you find a good method of improving it.

Tim

jmack · « **Reply #20 on:** May 25, 2007, 05:42:55 PM »

Well, I goofed, and it probably saved me alot of time. Last night I filled my forearm piece with silicone, and left it to set up. After thinking on this all day today at work, I came to the conclusion that the middle to bottom majority of the silicone would never dry. I then decided that I would be best suited by getting a tight fitting forearm piece to fix the wobble when open. I come home and find that my original thoughts were true. The top of the silicone had dried, but the other 3/4 of it was as liquid as if it were still in the tube. I cleaned it all out as best I could, and decided to at least try shooting the thing with just the o-rings to see if anything improved. I put two o-rings on the barrel stud, and when I had put everything back together, wobble when the action was open is now non-existent! I didn't get the chance to take it to the range though, started flooding here. I'm also unsure if I want to take it back to the range with the Remington ammo. I just have no confidence in it at all. edited

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** May 25, 2007, 07:12:34 PM »

Jmack, if you want to trade ammo, please post it in the Classifieds, it can't be posted here.

Also, be aware it can't be shipped by mail, so expect UPS/Fedex costs to be somewhat prohibitive. Right now, Remington is the only maker of factory 35 Whelen ammo unless you go semi-custom, Federal is reintroducing it, but I haven't seen it available yet.

Tim