Author Topic: lighter framed 45 lc and hunting.. load for rodeo long hunter 5.5 inch bbl  (Read 1563 times)

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Offline kennisondan

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Veral : got a rodeo Long Hunter version polished up a little and tightened a little and cannot find out what the specs are so far for loading it up or down.
I understand it may be a little lighter framed than the rugers, so :
for deer and hog targets of opportunity what lead bullet would you suggest... i will carry it for short shots and for walks that a heavier gun would get int the way.. am not recoil sensitive. long time shooter. slow and heavy is good for me if you suggest it will work fine, if not I would accept in put and agree to go as low in weight as say 200 grains, but would prefer to be a bit heavier.. any load suggestions would be dandy too..
I do not cowboy shoot yet and may not, but will likely carry this gun all over the place as it is so short and light comapred to my other possobles.
thanks in advance.
dk

Online Graybeard

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The gun is a Colt Clone and as such MUST be held to original Colt SAA load levels. So 250-260 at 850 to 900 is really maxing it out.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline kennisondan

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new to this  colt clone thing, what is more reasonable, maybe those at 45 auto velocities or lighter bullets, ?
... suggestions ?
bullet shape weight and speed to be kind to the gun and still kill deer...hogs...etc.   It seems the slower I get and the lighter I get I better go with the LFN or other smaller meplat shapes ?
It has to be that there is a potent enough deer round for this little gun ? doesn't it ?
dk 

Offline Veral

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  Understand that cast bullets with GOOD lubrication will wring the most power possible from your low pressure gun.
  You are considering using bullets with relitively small meplat on game because of the low power potential of your gun.  The thinking that a wide meplat cast bullet dramatically reduces penetration is a common error.  Even though wounding power, or wound channel, can be double or triple with a wide meplat vs small meplat, penetration isn't dimineshed in proportion.  In fact, I believe my WFN will penetrate deeper than a round nose or Ball as is used in ACP military type ammo.  This I believe is because the ball form allows tissue to drag over it's entire surface whereas the wide flatnose sprays tissue aside and passes through without drag on the bullet sides.  I have traced the wound of 45 ACP ball and found the wound channel about the same as if a sharp pencil had been pushed through, whereas a WFN at similar speed produces a wound of around 3/4 inch diameter.   The difference  killing power is dramatic.

  My recommendation therefore is a 250 gr WFN pushed to the highest speed safe pressure will generate in your gun.  You'll do fine with the stoutest lead bullet loads you can find for similar bullet weights, or better yet, if you can find jacketed data, use that bullet and load to develop a pressure standard, then load the WFN lubed with LBT lube, using the same powder, but more of it, till cases expand the same amount.  Velocity will be as much as 200 fps faster than with jacketed, without higher pressure than with jacketed.

  I get a fair amount of feedback from customers using mild large caliber handgun loads on deer, and results seem quite favorable.  Read my post of today for "44 magnum trouble"  where I ask the writer to make comments about his experiance with 45 colt level 44 loads on deer.  Hopefully he will respond soon. 
Veral Smith

Offline kennisondan

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Thanks veral :
I will buy some of those and then handload them and if it works out, probably purchase a mold.  I will make more gun specific inquiries looking for starter loads that can be counted on to be a really good starting point, and hopefully a go to load will be explored for a good while. I initially decide fast and change slow; so I need the edge your reccomendation gives me as a starting point.
dk
 
dan kennison 

Offline okie john

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I’m the “44 Magnum Trouble” poster.

Once upon a time, I was a superb pistol shot. I grew up around guns and competitive shooters, men who truly understood accuracy and fine shooting. I shot on the National Guard pistol team. After military service, I ran ranges and taught people to shoot. I had killed deer and truckloads of small game with handguns by the time I was in my 20’s. I shot handguns better than most people shoot rifles, but I almost never shot anything hotter than a 240-gr. bullet at 1,000 fps.

Then one day I was driving home from the range. The little store where I stopped to get gas and a Coke carried Guns & Ammo, and that month’s issue had one of Ross Seyfried’s 45 Colt articles. I was hooked before the tank was full. It took three years to save up the scratch, but I finally got myself a David Clements 5-shot 45 Colt. It pushed a 330-gr. LFNGC at 1,400 fps and it was superbly accurate. I killed a deer with it that year, but I made a mess of things. It took five shots and the poor thing was just shot to pieces. A few months of overindulgence with a hot-loaded revolver destroyed more than 20 years of careful preparation and training, and the flinch I got still dogs me today.

I killed my first whitetail with a handgun about ten years before that. Range was well past 100 yards, and I used an early 4” 629 with a machine-cast SWC and 10 grains of Unique. The bullet went through the ribs, and like I said in my other post, that deer didn’t go far.

Today I hunt small deer at close range. Our regs change every few years. If it becomes legal to use a 1911 again, I’ll stoke mine with 250-gr. WFN’s and call it good. But I’m required to use a revolver for a few more years, so I use a downloaded 44. For hogs or bears I might go a bit hotter, but I’d load a heavier bullet first.

Put a big, blunt bullet through the vitals, then get your skinning knife. It’s been working since guns were invented.


Okie John

Offline kennisondan

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thanks for that response to each of you.  I am satisfied with a 250 or 260 going 800 fps, even 750 would be okay, with a large flat nose, then for the clone...
I have to agree that flinches are easy to get and hard to drop..am not going to likely load up anything too hot, just wanted reassurance about the standard loads..
I loved my first hand loading experience, 240 gr cheap cast bullets over about 8-8.5 gr. unique..probably 1000 fps at most...but accurate and I felt it was enough for anything...
with a really big gun, I would want to do the same thing, that is why my mind goes to the 500 or 475-480 at 11 -  1200 or 1000 fps even..
dk

Offline Veral

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  When I developed the LBT handgun bullets most of what I 'knew' about revolvers loads was that the most powerful wasn't powerful enough.  Consequently, the bullets I developed have a higher power potential than any in the world, and I seriously doubt that anyone can develop cast bullets that will wring more power from a gun, and deliver it more effectively  on game.

  I've been way deep into flinch country, and the only way I overcame it was shooting partly filled cylinders using loads that didn't hurt.  When the hammer falls on an empty case and the gun takes a nasty nosedive from your flinch one tends to get hold of things fairly quick.

  But I learned that my WFN's  don't have to be driven to anything near full power to kill when I loaded some 240 gr WFN's at 1200 fps for a 44 mag marlin with intentions that my wife could use them to trim the heads off grouse.  She never did use it, but the last day of deer season that year, and I hadn't had time to go out even once, I picked that little gun up about a half hour before dark and went down into the woods on the back of our place.  A half mile from the house I took the eye out of a little buck at about 100 yards.  In thick brush, with his head all that was visable.  He dropped so fast I didn't know he went down.  So I listened and watched for any movement, then saw him again about a little ways from where he was the first time.  This time his ribcage was in sight and I thought.  Well I can hit THAT!  He dropped instantly at the shot, and I saw him go down this time.  When I got up to him I found them both.  Of coarse a 22 long rifle would have killed the first one, but it wouldn't have crushed his skull like this thing did, which means if the brain is missed by an inch or two it isn't likely the deer will be wounded and get away.  The the second rib shot deer is what impressed me most.  Hit at a steep quartering angle the bullet traveled 20 inches and left with a one inch exit hole, which was the size it made all the way through.  I killed three more deer with the same load, one at about 30 yards, two more at about 100 yards, and all dropped in their tracks.  I made sure to put all the other shots into the ribcage so nerve hits wouldn't be in influence, and all were instant kills.

  I don't make a habit of recommending loads slower than 1200 fps with the 44 WFN, but get quite a few reports of shooters who shoot 44''s and 45's at speeds down to 800 fps, who all claim excellent results on deer.

  Eskie John  sums up the issue real well.  The first thing in importance is a load that one can control with precision.  Power is second as long as ENOUGH is a primary concern.   People like him and myself can get along real well with little power, but many deer hunters can hardly get out of sight of another hunter, and have far less experiance, or none with deer hunting.  So I recommend a power level and bullet that I feel reasonably sure will anchor most deer in their tracks, or let them move only a few feet.  The same works for elk and moose, etc.
Veral Smith

Offline kennisondan

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I will go with the WFN at low speed with the clone if I shoot it and go with 1000 fps on up to 1250 fps with the linebuagh small frame six shooter and decide at what point the recoil is bothersome, cause I llike to shoot a lot to get really familiar with my handguns and what they will do far beyond the distances and conditions anticipated for their use.. familiarity gives me consistency..and confidence..
will try the 44 lbt 240s in the 44 that I choose to keep as well.
thanks again.
dk

Offline Veral

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  Familiarity with your handguns, and beware the man with one gun.  Says the same thing.

  If we know a gun won't work far out we get closer and get results.  When we don't know we try anything in sight.  Would you believe that where I was raised in simple farm country, back in the 50's it was common for deer hunters to brag that they had 'knocked one down'!  Ego had them convinced that they hadn't failed when in fact they were utter idiots, killing game for scavengers.
Veral Smith

Offline kennisondan

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it has been a long time since I heard that with pride.. : knocked one down.. what a waste..I cannot abide by that.. my best results rifle hunitng has been with single shot ruger ones, and I generally do not attempt to load it but instead keep my eye on the animal.. I missed last year with a strange gun and looked for hte deer just in case for several hours... in deep water and ended mny season witht he first miss in many many years, there was a lesson.. I will be practicing with my new handguns to get as good as I was with my old ones, before I take it to the hunting fields...
thanks for the advice Veral.. as always, it is appreciated.
dk